Libyan update, update

[+Wrench]

No, that's not a typo (which, as everyone knows, I'm prone too!!)

 

Got the NATO/Italian airfields straightened out, moved and renamed more or less properly. They reside, withing a few KM of their real live positions. (more or less... ). I'm sure our Italian/European members can point out any mistakes I might make along the way....

 

Modified planning map: NOTE-this is a LARGISH image!

 

 

Since I've been working on Sunny Southern Italy, I thought it would be nice to fly AMI planes....

 

104S-ASA-M over Messina, and to quote Rick Wakeman/Jules Verne, with 'the frightening Mount Etna' in the background...

 

 

Some airfield shots...

Looking across the Strait of Messina, west to Sicily

 

Yet another view of Mt Etna..

 

 

Luqa is active. Still have to build Valletta and it's harbor. Unfortunately, the coastline isn't quite right, but it's workable.

 

 

Next up, checking ALL the mission types. It's progressing a lot faster than I'd thought. Some tiling issues at the transitions, but nothing show stopping. It's a combination of my 1.4, FLHaussers .5 version, with more of my special tweeks, using Polak's tiles.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+allenjb42]

Looks great Kevin. Is this going to be a full package or an update for the existing terrain?

[Guest pfunkmusik]

[Handel's 'Messiah']

 

You're awesome.

 

[/Handel's 'Messiah']

 

pfunk

[Longestpants]

Very nice!!

[+Spectre_USA]

That is looking rather spiffy, innit?

 

[+Steve s]

Very very good work Kevin! But you can add the two airports that you can see in the picture , they are,and where in WWII, very important for NATO and AMI in in the Mediterranean Theatre.

Sorry for my English

[+Steve s]

Very very good work Kevin! But you can add the two airports that you can see in the picture , they are,and where in WWII, very important for NATO and AMI in in the Mediterranean Theatre.

Sorry for my English

 

Sorry but I can't upload the picture.

The airport,that you can find with Google Earth, is:

Decimomannu,a NATO airbase at 39°21'17.48"N, 8°58'21.06"E and

Pantelleria, a airport that Aeronautica Militare Italiana used like a "front-line" airbase,just in case.... 36°49'3.50"N, 11°58'6.97"E

[Jug]

Very nice!!

 

Looks very well done, Wrench. Can't wait. Press on!

[Canadair]

Looks very well done, Wrench. Can't wait. Press on!

 

I agree with adding Pantelleria. Having flown over Sicily for a while, in my opinion, polak'tiles are too green and too desertish to represent Sicily landscape and I guess Northafrica too. Perhaps can be made compatible with deuces desert repaint, which should be not a problem , tiles have the same names of the original desert right?;Especialy now that we can add tall high rises everywhrere.

Also US airbase by Mont Etn a whose name is signonella Airport, should be south of the city, with another airport that is Catania Civil Airport; both of them have no Crossing runways, and are 09-27 orientated. the other Us base to the eaist is Trapani military airport, (was my base!) and it should be closer to se, and at sea level; it comes with 13-21 orientation. In short the whole sicily landscape elevation should be revised ; it is not that mountanions

Thanks for the update wrench

A suggestion; maybe we can add some TANK movement lines (as strategic nodes) ACROSS the mediterrenan; bear with me on this; maybe three parellel sea lanes, which can be used from allied and soviet ships (and subs) , used as tanks in a campaign; planes would be launched from carriers and airbases with CAS loadout modified with anti-sub and anti-ship loadouts; of course it might require some .ini fiddling, to be removed for normal operations in case you don't like real tank, with tracks sailing on the waves. I wanted to do this with lybia that I have but I was waiting your update

[Harry]

Thanks for all the work !

[Emp_Palpatine]

Ghadamis should be slightly western. It's just across tunisian border, almost on the point where tunisian, algerian and Great Jamahiriya borders are colliding in a sort of big Y. BTW, where I'd go there, I saw the strip from a point on the road (well, with discretion, those libyan security guys are somewhat easy-trigger and paranoid) and it seems that the airport si no more used, apart for a two-three helicopters that were under blankets. They were Hind.

 

Al azizya should be right into Tripoli. It's an important spot since Gaddafi's is supposed to live there (actually, no one knows where he actually lives, he's constantly on the move), but not a town per se. It's just a district of Tripoli.

 

Tripoli internation airport is way too far from Tripoli, too close to Garyan (wich shall be set slightly western too). In car, from downtown to Tripoli Airport, you take something like 20-30 minutes (depends on traffic). No more than 40 km from the city.

As for ex-wheelus, it's integrated to the city too. The only separation between the airbase and the sea is an highway. Both intl airport and Wheelus seems to assume military duties, but intl airport now seems to only holds transport planes.

 

Regarding Benina, well, an eye who knows what to find will see some SAM sites from his plane window during approach dans landing. ;)that is sort of clues that it's not only civilian nowadays;) In my memories, it is slightly north-estern from Benghazi.

 

These are only sort of first impressions from my memories there, but I might be wrong!

[Guest pfunkmusik]

Sorry but I can't upload the picture.

The airport,that you can find with Google Earth, is:

Decimomannu,a NATO airbase at 39°21'17.48"N, 8°58'21.06"E and

Pantelleria, a airport that Aeronautica Militare Italiana used like a "front-line" airbase,just in case.... 36°49'3.50"N, 11°58'6.97"E

 

 

I think Kevin's already tried Decimomannu, but the limitations of the map wouldn't let it work for whatever reason, same for Hellenikos in Greece. Too close to the edge of the map.

 

pfunk

[+Veltro2k]

[+Wrench]

thanks guys, that just what's needed.

 

The SFMap thingy dosen't quite place things where they are. In game, thing will be 'relatively' as they say, close to RL . I've placed things as close as I can, given some of the small flaws (lack of some of the bays and inlets - the Strait of Messina is definately NOT quite right)

 

Catania is going to be changed (yet again!) to a smaller airfiled --- i'm getting the same 'stickiness' on the southerly take off heading (this may be do to proximity to the sea - had/have this same issue with the NAS at the east side of San Friscisco Bay in the SoCal map). Probably change the orientation as well. It should be noted, that all stock airfields are 0/180 orientated. You have to make any changes to base objects BEFORE rotating...cause once you do that, the offsets are not longer valid.

 

Tripol In't is where it is due to the city tiles (this is true for a couple of others as well) Its further west and south than it's RL position, as are a few of the others. Same can be said for the site of Wheelus (or ex-Wheelus) -- it's suposed to be on the coast, but it's all covered with city tiles and buildings (Polak's tods)

 

Since I can't retile....those are all moot points. Other than using the stock desert tiles...which I find to be too orangy, and we'd loose all those nice tall buildings. Unless I do the Fubars renaming trick.

 

Interesting to note, Sigonella dosen't show in Google Earth!!! Blows me mind!! If I get the coords, I can always addit back. Could probably use the site of USBase 1 from the original map. It's still flat, and ready to have something dropped on to it.

 

Definately try for Panatellara, an historicaly important site. As long as it's more than 80km from the map edge...

 

Interesting note on Trapani ... in GE, when you zoom down to about 2000 feet, you can see F-16s parked there, and and F-86D on display near some buildings.

 

As for GroundAttack movements, there will be none. As inthe original, ver 1.3/1.4. Anti-shipping routes, both sides and Armed Recon yes.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Canadair]

) -- it's suposed to be on the coast, but it's all covered with city tiles and buildings (Polak's tods)

 

Since I can't retile....those are all moot points. Other than using the stock desert tiles...which I find to be too orangy, and we'd loose all those nice tall buildings. Unless I do the Fubars renaming trick.

 

Interesting to note, Sigonella dosen't show in Google Earth!!! Blows me mind!! If I get the coords, I can always addit back. Could probably use the site of USBase 1 from the original map. It's still flat, and ready to have something dropped on to it.

 

Definately try for Panatellara, an historicaly important site. As long as it's more than 80km from the map edge...

 

Interesting note on Trapani ... in GE, when you zoom down to about 2000 feet, you can see F-16s parked there, and and F-86D on display near some buildings.

 

As for GroundAttack movements, there will be none. As inthe original, ver 1.3/1.4. Anti-shipping routes, both sides and Armed Recon yes.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Glad Pantelleria will be there. To be really picky should be crossing runway airfield, and sitting on flat high terrain area. Look really like an aircraft carrier. Lampedusa further south would be a good add airoport too

As for the tiles, you pick of course; I guess deuces repaints, which IMHO is the best idea, are named like standard tiles. And the tall building trick can still be done with Fubar's idea which was discussed in the thread you mentioned

(F-16s yes, it was really neat to play mouse for them on their mock intercept practice, and formation ILS with them, really cool..)

[Emp_Palpatine]

I agree with adding Pantelleria. Having flown over Sicily for a while, in my opinion, polak'tiles are too green and too desertish to represent Sicily landscape and I guess Northafrica too. Perhaps can be made compatible with deuces desert repaint, which should be not a problem , tiles have the same names of the original desert right?;Especialy now that we can add tall high rises everywhrere.

Yes, Polack tiles are definitely way too green to represent libya. The few times I flew above it, it was not that green, even in the more green area of the eastern libya. I have the impression that stock tiles are more realistic. It's the same for polack's sand that I find way too white.

 

 

Tripoli lies quite in the center of the image, under the smog.

[+Wrench]

I am stupid....found Signonella by simply scrolling further south.

 

Got all the new one's installed, relatively close. Remember,too we're working on a 63% scale map, so things can get a little crowded.

 

Panatella just gets a single runway (airfield 5 or 6 - can't remember). Not quite enough room. Trapani Briggi right now is using airfield 4, which we know to be wrong. I just wanted one LARGE ab for bomber useage.

 

Tiling issues....well, using the TOD Trick, creates some interesting visual anomalies. Like tall building sitting in the middle of the sea (ok, just off the beach, but you get the drift - nautical joke!)

 

Going back to the stock tiles looks like the best option....

 

pretty much the same view as in the 1st post. Using the stock TODs gives us plenty of smaller, single/double/triple story buildings on the city tiles. In some cases...which means adding little 'urban modules' where I have named cities (mostly in Sicily)

 

Using them creates OTHER problems....and some solutions! There's a nice 'exclusion' spot pretty much where it's needed between Tripoli and al Azzizzzza. More moves!!! plus some nice round 'oasis' spots for SAM batteries ... they should fit nicely.

Of course, this meams -once agian-- going over the entire Libyan coastline, back to version 1.4, for object placement for the ships an other port thingys.

 

More delays.... well, at least I know the NATO side is pretty much set. Although, there is some tiling strangeness in Greece, as it originally was never meant to be seen, let alone played from.

 

Back to work...

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Guest pfunkmusik]

Glad Pantelleria will be there. To be really picky should be crossing runway airfield, and sitting on flat high terrain area. Look really like an aircraft carrier. Lampedusa further south would be a good add airoport too

As for the tiles, you pick of course; I guess deuces repaints, which IMHO is the best idea, are named like standard tiles. And the tall building trick can still be done with Fubar's idea which was discussed in the thread you mentioned

(F-16s yes, it was really neat to play mouse for them on their mock intercept practice, and formation ILS with them, really cool..)

 

Lampedusa's too small on the existing map, but that would be interesting, considering it got a SCUD tossed at it after the Tripoli Bombing. It's a Coast Guard weather station, I think.

 

And Kevin, Sigonella's right about where you'd find Base #1. And I have zero problems going back to the old tiling if it means we get an accurate Libya.

 

pfunk

Edited April 21, 2008 by pfunkmusik

[+Wrench]

Couple of new shots...

 

desert forward operating base with attached army camp with tanks and such. probably change the quonset huts back to tents and all that

 

 

When in Tunis, don't forget to visit the ruins of Carthage...

 

 

Be a bit of a delay, as I'm losing the entire weekend due to some commitments, one of which is a bowling torunment for Project Angelfood that the wife's in. I get to spectate (bad back), and eat lots of good things.

 

Nearly done, though

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+Syrinx]

Love the ruins

[Roberto Skylord]

Couple of new shots...

 

desert forward operating base with attached army camp with tanks and such. probably change the quonset huts back to tents and all that

 

 

Nearly done, though

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

Bravo Zulu, Kevin

[Viper6]

Man! you guys never cease to amaze me! Kev, that ish is off the hook! Great work!

[Emp_Palpatine]

Great shots! I do like the ruins very much. If you want to add much realism to the map, you can add such ruins a few kilometers east of Khoms (Leptis Magna site), on the coast of Zuwarah (Sabrata site) and Cyrene (near Sahhat irl, but regarding our map, as Sahhat is obviously too small to be on it, let's say it is somewhere between Al Bayda and Susah. There are a lot more in Libya, especially in the eastern part of the country, but these 3 sites are "Unesco world heritage site", and, off topic speaking, they are really worth the trip.

[+Wrench]

Speaking of which, anyone go into Google Earth lately, and found Tripoli International blocked out with huge white square with red X in it???

 

Really weird!!! -- my curisoity is piqued....what's going on down there????

 

I'll see what I can do for the other ruins. Anthing it Scily I should be aware of? Other than Joe's Resturant atop Mt Etna, Home of the World Famous Volcano Chili???

 

Still trying to think of Easter Eggs for this one, but can't come up with anything!

 

I guess no one found all the ones in SoCal, either.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Emp_Palpatine]

Speaking of which, anyone go into Google Earth lately, and found Tripoli International blocked out with huge white square with red X in it???

 

Really weird!!! -- my curisoity is piqued....what's going on down there????

 

I'll see what I can do for the other ruins. Anthing it Scily I should be aware of? Other than Joe's Resturant atop Mt Etna, Home of the World Famous Volcano Chili???

 

Still trying to think of Easter Eggs for this one, but can't come up with anything!

 

I guess no one found all the ones in SoCal, either.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

Really strange, especially that since 2 years, all air military duties for the capital (except some transport and logistic) have been centered around ex-Wheelus (whose arabic name I always forgot). Things might have, once again, changed. But Libyans can also have asked Google to do so, as they are very.. VERY paranoid about all security and political issues. (remember having been menaced by a security guard AK for an ill-fated photo: a new comer there, was just wandering for some sight seeing in the town, took a photo on the most famous square of the town... but was not aware that in my point of view a bank-camouflaged local-KGB like agency building was standing! Some civilian come to help me btw, remembering the guard that I'm a tourist, blablabla. On one other day, my roommate was arrested in street just because he was takings some photos (well, yes, it was near Bab el Azizia...). )

 

As far as I recall, there are one, maybe two runways. The one I've always taken was clearly oriented in a east-west fashion, as during landing approach and take-off climbine, one can almost see Tripoli from the plane windows.

 

Oh! BTW I suddenly remember the name of Wheelus! That's Meitiga!

 

And what sort of easter-Eggs are you thinking about?