+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 I'v never saw a leader so foolish such as Saakashvili....even Hitler. Is it me or does he look a bit like a 50 year old Adam Sandler. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,875 Posted August 10, 2008 (edited) Yes I know we are using B-1s for CAS and we used them, and B-52s, and B-2s in Iraq, but our intention to remove the government of Iraq was clear. Why not just carpet bomb all the Al Qaeda and Taliban "assets" in western Pakistan? That would probably save some lives in Afghanistan and would surely make it more difficult for our enemies. To hell with the consequences. If the Russians are smart they won't put themselves in a position of appearing to have had to back down in the face of pressure from the West. Further escalation won't do them any good in the long run. There is no evidence anything is being carpet bombed - Russia has Guided weapons AFAIK - and like any guided weapons sometimes they go astray. Surely the clear objective is to remove the Georgian military including logistics and airbases? Not sure we can put any pressure on Russia tbh - they hold quite a few cards at the mo - particularly where European Energy is concerned. Edited August 10, 2008 by MigBuster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erwin_Hans 6 Posted August 10, 2008 I have to say this though. Something about that smile would just give people nightmares. Yes,they did. So simlar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesegy 5 Posted August 10, 2008 Russian army contineues fight, because Georgian forces NOT cease fire and NOT withdraw from S-Osetia. Saakashvili is patalogy liar! russiatoday reports here: Russia's Defence Ministry has confirmed that Georgian troops have withdrawn from South Ossetia after failing to retake the breakaway republic through military force. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+lindr2 19 Posted August 10, 2008 Sorry, i'm heard this phrase in rusians on direct TV translation on 13:30 Moskow time, Russia's Defence Ministry said " we confirmed , that in this night SOME Georgian forces withdraw Tskhinvali around" SOME BUT NOT ALL !!! Look like It's regroop for desorientated us... GOD BLESS RUSSIAN ARMY! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 Sorry, i'm heard this phrase in rusians on direct TV translation on 13:30 Moskow time, Russia's Defence Ministry said " we confirmed , that in this night SOME Georgian forces withdraw Tskhinvali around" SOME BUT NOT ALL !!! Look like It's regroop for desorientated us... GOD BLESS RUSSIAN ARMY! one problem....Russian TV lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+lindr2 19 Posted August 10, 2008 one problem....Russian TV lol. Russian TV continues translation UN meeting, but CNN, BBC? NOT !!! Interesting Why? P.S. 20:40 on Moskow UK end speach, Italy, croatia talk YOU see IT? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herman01 0 Posted August 10, 2008 I saw this today. Kinda funny and sad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 I saw this today.Kinda funny and sad. I have to agree Edwards really let a lot of people and his family down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 one problem....Russian TV lol. Russian TV continues translation UN meeting, but CNN, BBC? NOT !!! Interesting Why? P.S. 20:40 on Moskow UK end speach, Italy, croatia talk YOU see IT? I'm sure the BBC and CNN will report once the facts are confirmed.Russian TV is just saying what the state is feeding them.EEEHHH I never thought I would ever say that about CNN. They may be right I'm not argueing that. the point I'm making is if your ONLY basing your opinon on what is in the Russian media then your not really getting the whole story or facts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted August 10, 2008 I'm sure the BBC and CNN will report once the facts are confirmed.Russian TV is just saying what the state is feeding them.EEEHHH I never thought I would ever say that about CNN. They may be right I'm not argueing that. the point I'm making is if your ONLY basing your opinon on what is in the Russian media then your not really getting the whole story or facts. I'll see your "Russian TV lol" and raise you one Fox News. Pot calling the kettle black. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+NeverEnough 78 Posted August 10, 2008 Reading this thread provides an amazing study in how the opinions of the citizens of the world are colored by the prisms through which their world is viewed. God help us all...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 I'll see your "Russian TV lol" and raise you one Fox News. Pot calling the kettle black. [/quote Not even comparable.Please to say Fox is anything like The state run Russian media displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the situation or an irational bias against the truth when it differs from somones preconcieved ideas of how things are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 Reading this thread provides an amazing study in how the opinions of the citizens of the world are colored by the prisms through which their world is viewed. God help us all...... Imagine how bad things were 100 years ago when all people had to go on was what they were feed from their own goverments.At least today we(well half the world) have a global community that can share Ideas and points of view independent of their goverments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eraser_tr 29 Posted August 10, 2008 I'm going to scare whiteknight again, but I'll even believe fox news before I believe russian news. Just the fact that we aren't a combatant makes our news infinitely more objective on the situation. As for the UN, I'm sure one of the CSPANs does it when something is going on, but nobody watches those channels because 90% of the time their camera feed is of an empty congressional hall (even when there's supposed to be important debate) with the occaisional intern running around.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted August 10, 2008 Fox News is comparable in that they've actively distorted facts on several occasions, one notable example being a certain Republican congressman involved in a gay scandal suddenly becoming a Democrat on Fox News. Also, do any of you actually get Russian TV where you live? If not, where then can we find evidence of this staterun censorship that you speak of? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,875 Posted August 10, 2008 Reading this thread provides an amazing study in how the opinions of the citizens of the world are colored by the prisms through which their world is viewed. God help us all...... The way its always been you mean - its so easy to feed people cr*p they they will believe - classic example always seen here is: "60% of people in the UK think...." 60% of what? - is the question nobody asks - blindly believing a stat based on between 0 and 500 people (normally no figures are quoted) somehow represents a population of 60million - i mean wtf!! Just saw a Georgian citizen interviewed on the BBC - who happens to be in London - knew nothing about the situation over there whatsoever so was just shouting off based on his emotions - as you can imagine it was " Russia is doing this/that - they want a new Soviet Union etc blah - NATO said they would protect us - they must do something now regardless!" Never heard such crap in my life - the presenter did ask though whether he thought starting a war against Russia was wise in light of it being a nuclear exchange - he just repeated that we must force Russia to stop their actions anyway - this raises 2 questions - 1. Would Russia have gone against Georgia if they were already in NATO? 2. Would NATO really be obliged to help nutcase members of NATO who want to start WW3? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 Fox News is comparable in that they've actively distorted facts on several occasions, one notable example being a certain Republican congressman involved in a gay scandal suddenly becoming a Democrat on Fox News. Also, do any of you actually get Russian TV where you live? If not, where then can we find evidence of this staterun censorship that you speak of? "Fox News is comparable " Whatever dude.LOL it must be a cute little world you live in. As far as state run censorship...hmmm purges and arrests due wonders for media truth I guess.Please to compair a mistake you read about on some biased and obviosly ignornt web page with wholesale distrtion is laughable.believe what ever you want it dosn't effect the way things are just the way you percieve them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kesegy 5 Posted August 10, 2008 well, did anyone watch the UN meeting? nothing new, except that the russian ambassador accused sec. general's office of taking the georgian side which is hillarious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 "Just saw a Georgian citizen interviewed on the BBC - who happens to be in London - knew nothing about the situation over there whatsoever so was just shouting off based on his emotions - as you can imagine it was " Russia is doing this/that - they want a new Soviet Union etc blah - NATO said they would protect us - they must do something now regardless!"" herein lies the problem both sides represented in this argument here are guilty of this.both sides in reality have greipes and they should have been settled in a more civilized manner.Georga should have used more diplomatic means and russia should not be using the situation to justfy a land grab.I would expect nothing less than the Russian members of the forums to support Russian interests.It is after all their country and to root against ones own country right or wrong is somthing I believe is unique to liberal America.As I have said 10,000 times.If when that facts are out I'll form a permanent opinion on the issue but I just think too many people are just listening to what they want to hear or what they are forced to hear.Maybe i'm just spoiled because in America like it or not we have an independent media and we ,if we want to and are open to it ,can find the truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted August 10, 2008 Alright gentlemen, so far it's been relatively civil...but I'm seeing some disturbing trends developing. Keep it reined in people. FastCargo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 10,676 Posted August 10, 2008 The best i have seen today was the shake hands of russian and georgian sportswomen on a medal ceremonyat the Olympic Games. It shows, the problems are made by politicians, not by the normal people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 932 Posted August 10, 2008 After I read a few of my posts I realised that some sniping on my part was done.While I stand by my opinions I could have been more diplomatic in the execution.If my attacks(not opinions) offended anyone I'm sorry.maybe a lack of sleep and a few beers isn,t good for a debate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+lindr2 19 Posted August 10, 2008 At 22:00 on Moskow time Russian TV talk unconfirmed NEWS: Georgian Small missile ships try attack Russian fleet in neitral waters, at least one Georgian ships sinked... And 2 Two confirmed news: - on tshinvali found 4 death body balck mens in camouflage whitout markers, looks like is americans instructors or special forces. - 2 dead body of western journalist placed on tshinvali morgue, doctors said: they was wonded 8? 9? aug by georgian shells explosive, we cannot help him... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted August 10, 2008 Just to make my position clear, I'm reposting here what I just sent in a PM to Whiteknight: http://duckofminerva.blogspot.com/search/label/Georgia Several articles detailing the conflict and it's background. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7551595.stm Beeb article that includes background info and a neat timeline. Also note how on 08/07, Georgia agreed to a ceasefire. On that same evening they launched a surprise attack with rocket artillery specifically targeting civilians. Finally, here is a rather long thread on the subject on the stardestroyer.net boards: http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php...asc&start=0 And this is coming from someone whose family has fought against the russians for several generations since the 1400's. I'm definitely no russophile, but the burden of responsibility for the conflict is rather clear here. As for my comments about Fox News, the point is that we're not really in a position to blindly trust our own media because they've over and over shown a willingness to support political agendas by blatantly distorting the truth by omitting key facts - A good example of this would be how they've largely shaped the western perception of the Tibet issue as the brutal chinese oppressing a peaceful society http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html where the monks ruthlessly tortured and oppressed the country's serf population making the Taliban look like kindergarten and in fact the common tibetan is way better off with more human rights under China than before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
