Georgia moves against separatists

[gbnavy61 1]

I'm going to scare whiteknight again, but I'll even believe fox news before I believe russian news. Just the fact that we aren't a combatant makes our news infinitely more objective on the situation.

 

Are you kidding? If we even have any interests in the conflict, our news (particularly Fox) is not going to be very objective at all.

[+hgbn 91]

This is a fact

 

The truth is allways the first casultie in every war. I wouldnt trust anything I hear. No matter where it is from. SAD but true.

 

Just my 2 cents

[eraser_tr 29]

Not truly objective.....simply more objective than the russian press.

[Doghouse 0]

Seems to me all this would make for a nice campaign in SFP1/WOV/WOE/WOI. Now if someone would just write it up. Not much any of us can do about this particular war, so me might as well get something out it.

[+Julhelm 266]

Not truly objective.....simply more objective than the russian press.

In certain regards, not in all. The american media is notorious for sucking politician cock to the point where they expect the press to keep silent about something stated in an interview if it's "off the record". Generally it's the duty of each and all of us to constantly check and crossreference the facts and make our own educated conclusion. There's simply no such thing as trusting the news just because they're say they're objective.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

Not truly objective.....simply more objective than the russian press.

 

Your conversion to the dark side is almost complete

[herman01 0]

I think the reason I put the clip was that its not really news to find out that a Politician is a human being and cheats and steals like the majority of the world and that was the point the lady was trying imply that there is some real news going on that day and that the petty pointless political character crap was and should be minuscule to news coverage to the conflict in South Ossetia. The lady makes some relevant points in there. Is it really news to find out that politicians are scumbags?

[Silverbolt 104]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e72_1218295422

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

I've read that the infamous G-word, the key to casus belli, has been used by some people here to justify Russian agression... Hell, basing such accusations on 1000-2000 combat-linked casualties and 20 000 refugees (what's more common in war?) is pure brainless propaganda. And it's not surprising coming from Moscow.

Mr "we saved S.O from Genocide" should have a look into his own country's deeds in Chechenya.

So, separatism is right when in Georgia, wrong when in Russia? Mass killing of civilian are well known in Chechenya, but they seem to be propaganda in the ongoing conflict.

 

The truth is post-soviet Russia is still ashamed by the way she lost her Empire in 1991 and never accepted the independance of former "brother states".

It's Georgia turn now, who will be the next? Ukraine? Baltic States?

It's a dramatic mistake not to have a firm reaction against Russia. My fear is we'll pay for this. We did not rise to defend Georgia's rights to protect her sovereignty, how shall we when it will be Baltic states?

[+whiteknight06604 932]

I think the reason I put the clip was that its not really news to find out that a Politician is a human being and cheats and steals like the majority of the world and that was the point the lady was trying imply that there is some real news going on that day and that the petty pointless political character crap was and should be minuscule to news coverage to the conflict in South Ossetia. The lady makes some relevant points in there. Is it really news to find out that politicians are scumbags?

 

The majority of the world are not scum but are hard working and decent people,you only hear about the bad.The segment was about John Edwards cheating and lieing about it.It would make sence that they would try to keep it on topic.With so many news stations going 24 hours there is more than enough time for every story.They only divert addtention to thingss when they don't feel like answering a question.The reason the story was important was Edwards is on Obamas short list for atorney general so anything he does is under a microscope.I also find it amusing that when George Bush makes a mistake he's Hittler reincarnated but when some liberal icon does he's just human.

[eraser_tr 29]

I generally don't give a damn about affairs regardless of party. But seriously, who wouldn't lie about an affair? Never has this conversation taken place

 

husband " Hi honey, I'm home!"

 

wife "So how was work?"

 

husband "It was great! I spent my whole lunchbreak doing my secretary on the xerox machine"

[+whiteknight06604 932]

I generally don't give a damn about affairs regardless of party. But seriously, who wouldn't lie about an affair? Never has this conversation taken place

 

husband " Hi honey, I'm home!"

 

wife "So how was work?"

 

husband "It was great! I spent my whole lunchbreak doing my secretary on the xerox machine"

 

Hell same situation I would lie too,my point was after Edwards wife was aware they both were publicaly dening it.Now it's embaresing and all but the fact he didn't realise that the world was gonna find out and yet he continued to lie shows he's not that bright.The guy made millions sueing doctors into the poorhouse with lies and junk science so I guess an affair is no biggy to him.The thing he didn't do was lie under oath that was Clinton and Martha Stewerts undoing.It tends to piss off the Feds when you lie to them.

[gbnavy61 1]

I've read that the infamous G-word, the key to casus belli, has been used by some people here to justify Russian agression... Hell, basing such accusations on 1000-2000 combat-linked casualties and 20 000 refugees (what's more common in war?) is pure brainless propaganda. And it's not surprising coming from Moscow.

Mr "we saved S.O from Genocide" should have a look into his own country's deeds in Chechenya.

So, separatism is right when in Georgia, wrong when in Russia? Mass killing of civilian are well known in Chechenya, but they seem to be propaganda in the ongoing conflict.

 

The truth is post-soviet Russia is still ashamed by the way she lost her Empire in 1991 and never accepted the independance of former "brother states".

It's Georgia turn now, who will be the next? Ukraine? Baltic States?

It's a dramatic mistake not to have a firm reaction against Russia. My fear is we'll pay for this. We did not rise to defend Georgia's rights to protect her sovereignty, how shall we when it will be Baltic states?

 

I'd tend to agree with this.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

I'd tend to agree with this.

 

Russia at the very least is being very hypocritical.It must be tough have ones country fall from being to superpower to a 2nd rate economic state.the Russian people are a resiliant bunch and are used to oppression and hardships that few in the west could endure.Unfortunaly that makes them less likely to anger when their goverment takes away freedoms or stiffels any sort of Freedom of the press.

[herman01 0]

In response to comments on my previous post. Being a human being doesn’t make you a scum bag. We all make idiot mistakes in our life. The only time it bothers me however is when someone from a self righteous position or so called family values protectors makes him or herself out to be a giant hypocrite. What I mean is that Fox News still has Newt Gingrich on as contributor and he is a two time adulterer, and has refused to pay child support in his past.

 

I think Emp_Palpatine made some good points in his last paragraph on how old Russian power my feel reinvigorated and feel as if they have they have the political ability to snatch up or control break away states. They feel they might be able to bring Russia to its former high throne of being a Super Power in the world. Especially after the U.S. withdrawal from the ABM treaty and U.S. approval of membership of countries like Georgia’s NATO membership which has left them feeling uneasy. However we have lost the moral high ground on the protecting the sovereignty of nations because we went into and still occupy Iraq without UN or largely international approval. So in the court of international opinion it would be an uphill battle. However I believe the Russians will only make this a short term military operation only to make an example out of Georgia so that the other Regional states will bow to Russian military presence. A page from post World War II U.S. geopolitical strategy.

 

I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy. We had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul; a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country.

U.S. President George W. Bush at a joint press conference, June 16, 2001

[eraser_tr 29]

Putin is a cold, calculating snake thats about as trustworthy as a pedophile at a hannah montana concert. Poor georgie is really that far out in space....

[serverandenforcer 33]

Just because he said high praises about Putin on national T.V. doesn't really mean that's what he really thinks of him. Do you really think he would actually say the truth about him at a press conference. Putin represents a country that holds a major position in the sphere of international influence. Speaking poorly of him could actually make things bad for the U.S. But that's my opinion, and this is going O.T. and can start some controversial postings that I don't think will be tolerated too lightly here.

Edited August 11, 2008 by serverandenforcer

[gbnavy61 1]

Putin is a cold, calculating snake thats about as trustworthy as a pedophile at a hannah montana concert. Poor georgie is really that far out in space....

 

I'd tend to agree with this as well.

 

----

 

I think Russia is using the opportunity to weaken Georgia and gain back some of it's lost Soviet Empire - or at the very least, exact a little revenge on a former Soviet region who wants in with the West via NATO.

 

I'm not sure what Georgia hoped would happen going into this thing. If I have read correctly, the Georgians took the first act of moving troops into the disputed S Ossetia, which only furnished the Russians with an opportunity to claim provokation (genocide or whatever they want). Who knows who shot first? Doesn't matter anymore, the stuff has hit the fan. Now that the fighting has begun in earnest, it's going to be difficult to tell Russia to stop - not before they get what they want, anyway.

 

I'm not sure what should happen with S Ossetia. It certainly seems like an internal Georgian affair to me, and I think Russia ought to butt out. I don't condone killing people to exert control over a geopgraphical area, but it is part of history and likely will be for a long, long time. Killing is wrong, but very few (if any) countries can claim to have established themselves without a violent history (the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, the Russian Revolution, etc.).

 

I think we ought to be very wary of Russia, particularly with Putin still in a position of authority. I believe they've more than recovered from the economic collapse with the fall of the Soviet Union. Now they're flexing their muscles and trying to send the world a message that they're still a major player. So far, it's limited to a regional conflict, but I could see it going further - perhaps not now, but maybe in the not-too-distant future.

Edited August 11, 2008 by gbnavy61

[gbnavy61 1]

Also read something I find kind of funny.

 

Russia sortied ships based in Ukraine to head to the Black Sea waters off Georgia. Ukraine said if the Russians blockade Georgia, they have the right to deny the Russian ships entry into port on their return.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Also read something I find kind of funny.

 

Russia sortied ships based in Ukraine to head to the Black Sea waters off Georgia. Ukraine said if the Russians blockade Georgia, they have the right to deny the Russian ships entry into port on their return.

 

LOL..Ukraine...They also said Georgia not need any military support.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Yeah, ( It's strange you're defending Russia, whereas they are just involving themselves into a separatist conflict for a region that had been part of Georgia for long. It remind me of something... some mountain area called Tibet): Ukraine can do that, and Russia won't be able to get back its loaned port without military action. And Ukraine is by far more able to defend herself. And this time Nato would not stand idle. I do think it's quite a clever move for Kiev.

 

And the little is not always defeated. You may remember your country got licked in a few days by Vietnam in 1979, don't you?

Edited August 11, 2008 by Emp_Palpatine

[Canadair 16]

Russia in indeed rejuvenated by this little "imperalistic act"

On the other hand, any confrontation against Russia for European and Us power is basically not an option.

For starter, it would be a "real" war, especially on the air side, while many of the operations conducted in the later years have been more counter-guerrila operations, or air bombing against a much inferior enemy (Serbia, or Iraq during Desert Storm)

Here we would be facing a real threat in the air, land and sea. In their own land.

Secondary, US power are reduced in number, althoguh High-tech, scattered around the world in two major conflicts, plus defense of the homeland and IRan to be kept under pressure. European powers are under the natural resources blackmail. (My natural gas bill is on the desk at the moment,, and it is high enoguh )

 

So, Georgia today, and tomorrow? Ucraina? maybe, but perhaps for those nations would be better to live under russia, on the long term, than their struggling indipendence. For sure better than a bloody long full scale war NATO/US vs RUSSIA on their territory. For once a hot-spot burnt and finished ina few days, hopefully with minimum causalties. We should happy that our leaders, (for a good vision, or simply because they can't) are not leading us into a conflict we can't do

(I might argue that we should do NO conflict at all and leave wars in videogame,, but thtis is my utopia..so I'll stop herE)

Edited August 11, 2008 by Canadair

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

On the other hand, any confrontation against Russia for European and Us power is basically not an option.

The fact is that such confrontation isn't an option for Russia, too. Their military is still recovering from the post-soviet chaos, among the reasons. Nato and the West should have bet on this: cooling russian staff heads with some show of muscles (planes in Turkey, for instance). Thus, a cease fire on some status-quo would have been easier.

[Canadair 16]

(planes in Turkey, for instance).

 

hmhm I work in turkey at the moment....

[+JonathanRL 973]

1. Would Russia have gone against Georgia if they were already in NATO?

 

2. Would NATO really be obliged to help nutcase members of NATO who want to start WW3?

 

1: Hard to say. I would say Yes. Like many others said, few NATO Countries would fight for Georgia.

 

2: No. Georgia moved into SO first. For a pre-emptive strike, NATO Command has to be in agreement. The defence treaty is only in effect for defence purpose. A country has to be attacked first in order to be eligable for NATO Aid.

Edited August 11, 2008 by tigertompa