F4D-1 Skyray

[+Typhoid 231]

an awesome model. Really enjoyed flying this one.

 

I now have a 50's - early 60's install set aside just for all these awesome early jet flight models. Lots of fun with this.

 

Heard a lot of stories way back when I was first flying from the "older hands" who survived these early jets. Quite entertaining.

[+ErikGen 44]

Same problem here, only they aren't invisible, they are tiny little white cubes floating under the pylons.

 

Two unskinned little cubes ... me too ... tested on patched WoV.

Nice model Julhelm , with or without tanks .

[column5 63]

For anyone having the tank problem, just temporarily switch over to Tank300_A7 in the data INI and loadout INI. Its a very similar tank.

[+Gocad 26]

Well, it's not like that the tanks don't show up at all, as you can see here.

It seems that they appear only when you load them manually (through the loadout screen), regardless whether they have been equipped via the loadout.ini already.

[+Dave 2,322]

Weird, it was working for me when I tested it.

[+Julhelm 266]

Indeed so. I've come across this problem with some other tanks. No idea why other than maybe it has to do with the pylon sharing the same stationgroupID as the "normal" pylon. If you load them manually they'll work though.

[Spinners 15,986]

A fantastic surprise! Thanks Nils!

 

And thanks to C5 for that little history lesson.

[Luiz Carlos 0]

A fantastic surprise! Thanks Nils!

 

And thanks to C5 for that little history lesson.

Fantastic Job!

Question:the mighty mouse rockets have some kind of guidance?

About the drop tanks, I can see them on it stations , but I can´t drop them.When I try it drops only two little white cubes, the drop tanks remain in there.

Mighty Mouse pods can´t be dropped too.

Thanks again about this impressive work!

[+Dave 2,322]

Indeed so. I've come across this problem with some other tanks. No idea why other than maybe it has to do with the pylon sharing the same stationgroupID as the "normal" pylon. If you load them manually they'll work though.

 

Ah that is why I didn't see that in testing as I was loading them manually.

 

Question:the mighty mouse rockets have some kind of guidance?

 

No just point and shoot.

 

About the drop tanks, I can see them on it stations , but I can´t drop them.When I try it drops only two little white cubes, the drop tanks remain in there.

 

See my post above.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

manually loadd tanks works good but drops only cubes as above writen, but when I wanted to jettison the RP nothing happend

[FastCargo 412]

I'm seeing something interesting in the data.ini:

 

[LeftInnerWingStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=2

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-2.2776,0.4301,-0.4083

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=240

AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,FT

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=LeftInnerWingStation

PylonMass=45.0

PylonDragArea=0.02

 

[RightInnerWingStation]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=6

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=2.2776,0.4301,-0.4083

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=240

AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,FT

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=RightInnerWingStation

PylonMass=45.0

PylonDragArea=0.02

 

Then later on in the data.ini, I found this:

 

[LeftInnerWingStationFT]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=8

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=-2.2776,0.4301,-0.4083

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=240

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=LeftInnerWingStationFT

PylonMass=45.0

PylonDragArea=0.02

FuelTankName=Tank300_F4D-1

 

[RightInnerWingStationFT]

SystemType=WEAPON_STATION

StationID=9

StationGroupID=2

StationType=EXTERNAL

AttachmentPosition=2.2776,0.4301,-0.4083

AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0

LoadLimit=240

AllowedWeaponClass=FT

AttachmentType=NATO,USN

ModelNodeName=RightInnerWingStationFT

PylonMass=45.0

PylonDragArea=0.02

FuelTankName=Tank300_F4D-1

 

Note what I've bolded. You shouldn't need to call for FT twice (which is what's going on). I think I understand what you are trying to achieve (always keeping the vertical part of the pylon visible no matter if it's a bomb or fuel tank loaded). What I think the 'little white squares' are is that 'dummy' LOD file you're referencing in the weapondata.ini file.

 

You shouldn't need to reference a file at all. Keep the 'ModelName' entry to blank, and nothing should show up...I think.

 

Addendum: Yep, just like I said, get rid of the 'dummy' LOD file and keep the ModelName entry blank (just tested). However, this does not solve the 'invisible fuel tank with auto load' problem. Works just fine with manual loading, but not if you rely on the loadout.ini.

 

Possible solution, depending on mapping of the pylon and fuel tank. Have the fuel tank have it's own pylon as an element of the fuel tank mesh. Then alter the data.ini file to delete the FT entry on stations 2 and 6. That way, either a bomb gets loaded and the pylon shows up, or the fuel tank gets loaded with it's own pylon. For all intents and purposes, it looks the same, and solves the 'invisible tank' issue.

 

However, I don't know of any way to be able to jettison a part of the aircraft LOD at will.

 

FastCargo

[+Julhelm 266]

I was thinking the same thing FC. As for not being able to jettison the rocketpods - that's because they're gunpods in disguise.

[FastCargo 412]

I was thinking the same thing FC. As for not being able to jettison the rocketpods - that's because they're gunpods in disguise.

 

Yea, I thought that was a clever way to get the AI to use 'rockets' for A2A. I was wondering if gunpods were jettisonable or not (I guess not). It looks pretty convincing in game too.

 

FastCargo

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

I didnt have any trouble with tanks however Sidewindes are refusing to load, they arent even available in the menu. I went into the editor and noticed that availability was from '69 onwards so i corrected this to '59, also that allowance was set to NATO only so added USN. In the FORD data ini the outer stations are allowed IRM and the loadout calls for AIM-9B, I checked the name of the winders through the editor and they are listed as AIM-9B. So I really cant see why they wont show, any ideas guys?

 

Craig

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

forgot to mention, this is in patched WOI and I'm using the September editor

Edited October 18, 2008 by fallenphoenix1986

[WLJet 1]

WOW!! The F4D Skyray!!! Thank you so much Julhem!! I have been wanting this plane since 2 years ago after I read on Greg Goebel's "Air Vector" reference on the SkyRay. Beautifully modelled and great cockpit!!!

 

However, there is a query regarding the A-A radar performance (which I know can be easily editied on the avionics data.ini file). I noted the search range modelled can go as far as 100nm which would be of similar range to a later and more advanced APQ-72 radar used by the F-4B.

 

Greg Goebel's reference site seems to report it as much shorter range:

 

"The first production F4D-1 Skyray made its initial flight on 5 June 1954. Along with the J57 engine, the production aircraft featured numerous small changes and was fitted with the Aero-13 fire-control system, which featured Westinghouse AN/APQ-50 radar. Due to delays in delivery of the radar system, initial production Skyrays weren't originally fitted with the radar, and apparently a handful were never refitted with it. The radar was impressive for its time, with a normal detection range of 29 kilometers (18 miles), and a lock-on range of 20 kilometers (12 miles). It was a major step forward in featuring an integrated design, with the entire unit sliding out for service; earlier radars consisted of various boxes wired together. "

 

http://www.vectorsite.net/avskyray.html

 

So whose info is correct??

 

Anyway, thanks again for such a fantastic mod!!

[column5 63]

Greg Goebel's reference site seems to report it as much shorter range:

 

F3H pilots using the same radar reported the ability to detect bomber-sized targets as far as 100nm away.

[FastCargo 412]

I was thinking about the situation with the drop tanks a bit more and had some questions/possible solutions.

 

1) Under the old (Bunyaps) weapons pack, all files were in one directory, however with the recent MF weapons pack, all weapon files are now in their own directory, resulting in them needing individual ini files. My question is....is there anything preventing having different squadron tanks just by making a different specific weapon directory (ie Tank300SkyrayGen, then Tank300SkyrayVF1, etc). The idea would be that the bitmap and LOD names are the same, just different directory and ini names. My question is, would this work?

 

My proposed solution is basically, each squadron still gets their own tanks, but no LOD hacking, renaming bitmaps, etc. For future skinners, all they would need to do is include the new directory, and of course, a weapondata.ini entry. The problem is that the Skyray's loadout.ini file would determine which tanks go on the model...unlike the current method which would match the tanks with the squadron skin (because they are skinned by the squadron, not by the bitmap located in the weapons folder). A possible 'workaround' is the default tanks would be unmarked 'generic' tanks, which would actually be very plausible...which you could still override in the loadout screen.

 

2) Solution 2, which is more radical. Shoot the tanks off. Keep the tanks part of the aircraft LOD. Make 2 new components that would basically name the tanks, with each Component having a hitbox, and SystemNames of a fuel tank and a weapon station. Make a new entry in the weapondata.ini that would be named the drop tank name, but would actually be a gunpod, with very few rounds of a gun (which you would have to make as well) that has no sound, effects, anything like that. There would be no LOD file either. The idea is that when you load the 'drop tanks' you are actually loading a gunpod that points straight at the 'hitbox' for the component (ie the tanks that are part of the LOD). When you go to fire your guns the first time, the guns shoot the hitbox of the drop tank, cause enough damage for the tank to separate.

 

Obviously there are several problems, the first of which is 'Would I blow myself up?'. Secondly, how do you make the Component tanks NOT appear at will (like if you wanted to load bombs instead of drop tanks)? Third, this means the tanks would always 'jettison' whenever you fire the guns.

 

Just thinkin out loud...any comments?

 

FastCargo

[+Typhoid 231]

I was thinking about the situation with the drop tanks a bit more and had some questions/possible solutions.

 

1) Under the old (Bunyaps) weapons pack, all files were in one directory, however with the recent MF weapons pack, all weapon files are now in their own directory, resulting in them needing individual ini files. My question is....is there anything preventing having different squadron tanks just by making a different specific weapon directory (ie Tank300SkyrayGen, then Tank300SkyrayVF1, etc). The idea would be that the bitmap and LOD names are the same, just different directory and ini names. My question is, would this work?

 

My proposed solution is basically, each squadron still gets their own tanks, but no LOD hacking, renaming bitmaps, etc. For future skinners, all they would need to do is include the new directory, and of course, a weapondata.ini entry. The problem is that the Skyray's loadout.ini file would determine which tanks go on the model...unlike the current method which would match the tanks with the squadron skin (because they are skinned by the squadron, not by the bitmap located in the weapons folder). A possible 'workaround' is the default tanks would be unmarked 'generic' tanks, which would actually be very plausible...which you could still override in the loadout screen.

 

2) Solution 2, which is more radical. Shoot the tanks off. Keep the tanks part of the aircraft LOD. Make 2 new components that would basically name the tanks, with each Component having a hitbox, and SystemNames of a fuel tank and a weapon station. Make a new entry in the weapondata.ini that would be named the drop tank name, but would actually be a gunpod, with very few rounds of a gun (which you would have to make as well) that has no sound, effects, anything like that. There would be no LOD file either. The idea is that when you load the 'drop tanks' you are actually loading a gunpod that points straight at the 'hitbox' for the component (ie the tanks that are part of the LOD). When you go to fire your guns the first time, the guns shoot the hitbox of the drop tank, cause enough damage for the tank to separate.

 

Obviously there are several problems, the first of which is 'Would I blow myself up?'. Secondly, how do you make the Component tanks NOT appear at will (like if you wanted to load bombs instead of drop tanks)? Third, this means the tanks would always 'jettison' whenever you fire the guns.

 

Just thinkin out loud...any comments?

 

FastCargo

 

what is wierd is that with all the problems that I have been having lately with all of the editors, the Skyray tanks came up perfectly for me without any of the reported problems.

 

don't know what will work the best. There are some very strange things going on with some of these packs and the interaction with various patches pushed by Microsoft.

 

I've been in "recovery" mode now for several weeks.

[+Julhelm 266]

The best solution would be to petition TK to make the droptanks a jettisonable part of the aircraft lod.

[FastCargo 412]

The best solution would be to petition TK to make the droptanks a jettisonable part of the aircraft lod.

 

True...which would open up all sorts of other possibilities (ie if you could user select parts to jettison in flight, other things are possible with this capability).

 

FastCargo

[charlielima 328]

Oh Yah! I don't even have to snivel for a VF(AW)-3 skin. Thanks Nils.

I bet it won't be too long before we see Corktip, Gocad and many other splendid skinners paint our Fords. Bitchin plane! Mine spins out tho. I need to get my patchs current.

:ph34r: CL

[+X RAY 83]

In WoI and WoE before patch when u hitted,is it normal that don't see any damage?

Or better you lose wings,tail..but you can see trough the plane.

I've found a damage.bmp in the plane folder,but this works only with the patch?

[+Julhelm 266]

There is no extensive damage modelling done and the damage.bmp is for the Mirage III whose folder I used as a base. It'd have been nice to have damage modelling and so but then I probably wouldn't have released it for another year. Maybe I'll add that in the future.

[Wrench 9,846]

You can make 'damage tags' quite easily...I've done quite a few. The harder part would be the 'damage bmp' that now in the patched versions. And like Juls said, building the damage parts into the model (like TMFs mirages) would probably be a lot more work.

 

Bullet holes ain't nothing.

 

Wrench

kevin stein