Do you fly for your own nation?

[TX3RN0BILL 3]

StigIR, it is YOU who are IRRELEVANT. IMHO all you're doing is trying to shoot down Gepard's question, which is one of curiosity, not to raise any sort of statistic or other investigative purpouse. Why are you raising so much trouble on this thread anyways? IMHO it's YOU who's got an issue about other people voicing their choices, answering to a thread, etc. It is one thing to read the replies of others and it's something else mouthing off in such a loud voice about it. If someone chooses to be patriotic and refuses to fly certain planes, so what? As Jedi Master put it correctly, no matter what you state, you're not going to change their minds. So give it a rest, will ya, for peace's sake??

 

As for me, well, I occasionally fly for the portuguese Air Force, in whichever plane I choose to fly (not all have the PT decals though ) but most of the time I can't be bothered to change the nationality of the plane I'm flying. Though in Aces over Europe I flew mainly german planes, though I did try all three sides, and in Aces of the Pacific, I also flew planes of both sides - can't remember if I had a preference there. In Jane's Fighter's Anthology I flew mostly for the Portuguese Air Force, wether I was flying a Mig or an F-16, but here in WoE, as I said, I mostly fly the nationality of the plane I'm flying.

[Silverbolt 104]

lol, mandou bem brother...

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Even someone who is drawn to flying for "their country" shouldn't also be dead set against flying for that country's enemy in a game. That, on its face, shows an inability to separate real life and real history from a computer program.

 

There you go again telling people how to live their lives.

 

I don't know, maybe an Israeli wouldn't want to fly for a side that could have killed friends or family of his. Maybe an Egyptian feels the same way.

 

Is it so wrong to think that a Vietnam Veteran, or a friend/family member of someone killed in the war would not want to suit up for the North Vietnamese?

 

Some people have strong loyalties to things, and I don't think you are the person that needs to tell them they are wrong for that.

 

Flight combat sims are the only combat related sims I play. I will never play a FPS because that is something I did in real life for far too long and killed far too many real people for my liking. Shooting someone with an M4 on a computer screen would not be enjoyable for me and would bring back bad memories that I am trying to put behind me. Is it bad that I "can't spererate real life and real history from a computer game?" I think not, but you probably think I am an awful person for not wanting to use Call of Duty 4 as a historical modual to learn about modern ground combat.

[MigHound 0]

Playing WoE, I don't really tend to stick with one nation. If I feel like flying a Tornado IDS, I'll be German for that particular mission. Then I'll jump into an EF-2000 and be a Brit pilot. Being Canadian, I will fly the CF-104, (eagerly awaiting a Canadian skin for the 101B ), and fly the CF-188A Hornet, on the odd occasion. Daring to dream, I did put together a half-assed skin set for the F-23 Black Widow II

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

I only fly RN FAA aircraft. I hate the RAF and the British Army Air Corps..................

Edited December 19, 2008 by Hinchinbrooke

[Viggen 644]

I fly USA, UK, Germany (Nazi, West), other NATO nations,Israel, Iran, Japan (JASDF only as IJAAF/IJN aircraft have no pilot armor or self-sealing tanks)

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Alright peoples, dial the rants back a bit. The Pro/Anti-nationalist sentiment you guys are sinking your teeth into is off topic in relation to the question of the thread "Do you fly for your own nation?" Yes some people have stated why, but it's not important why. Everyone will have different reasons for doing so. Build a bridge, get over it.

 

Is it bad that I "can't spererate real life and real history from a computer game?"

In that case, don't be playing GTA or Scarface. The drug dealing, car jacking and shootouts with cops could end badly for you dude.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

In that case, don't be playing GTA or Scarface. The drug dealing, car jacking and shootouts with cops could end badly for you dude.

 

That made me laugh a lot for some reason, thanks!

[toonces 4]

@ Stiglr,

I understand your point.

 

However, let me propose some of my own thoughts.

 

I've been a very long-time flight simmer. And, I've never had any problem flying any aircraft in any sim.

 

But, a few months ago I read a very, very powerful book about Nazi Germany. After reading that book, I took some time to examine my own wargaming practices, and where exactly I felt I stood intellectually flying German planes, driving German tanks, etc.

 

Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that, yes indeed, these are games. By playing the German side in a wargame I'm not condoning what the Nazi's did. By flying a German plane, I'm not pretending in some weird way that I'm now a German pilot. I'm playing a game.

 

But, having said that, there are some sims I fly, for example Aces High, where there are squads that only fly German planes. For some reason, that's just too...something...that just crosses a personal line for me.

 

So, I hope you can appreciate that while I enjoy simming a great deal, it is possible to be introspective and perhaps have some personal reason to have lines within our gaming.

 

And finally, in 'real life' I'm a Navy Orion pilot, and I've hunted real Russian submarines a number of times. But, I don't have any qualms about firing up an Akula in Dangerous Waters, or taking up a Foxbat in Falcon 4.

 

See ya,

Toonces

[+Gepard 11,298]

Its interessting how a simple question can cause such a strange discussion. When i started this threat i had only the intention to know wheter other guys act similar like me and my 7 years old son or wheter they act different. No more and no less.

There was no thinking about nationalism, patriotism or whatever someone want to read into my question.

I would prefer if you concentrate on the original question. If you want to discuss nationalism, patriotism or other subjects, then open your own threat and dont hijack this one.

Edited December 19, 2008 by Gepard

[Heck 496]

After a while playing FE i was astonished to realize, that i nearly always choose the german birds, seldom the british and never the french. But only in WW1 scenarios. In WW2 scenarios or WOE, WOE, WOV i'm not nationfixed. Astonishingly my son acts similar. No problem to fly the Me-109, Spitfire or Mustang, but in FE always the german Fokkers or Albatros.

Now i'm curious wheter you are in WW1 nationfixed too. Does the british gamers prefer the british planes, the french gamers the french birds and the germans, like me, choose the german planes?

 

Generally, I find myself flying for the British, or the Germans, in First Eagles. I think it's because the conflict between the Royal Flying Corps and the German Jastas over Flanders was amongst the first things I read when I was young, and two pilots became early childhood heroes; J.T.B. McCudden, and Manfred Von Richthofen. I'm American, but I usually don't fly for them. But I blame Red Baron 3d for that, because every time I tried to launch a career as an American pilot I wound up getting waxed, so it kind of put me off flying for them, although, until you asked this question, I never noticed it. And when it comes to particular aircraft, I surprise myself, because I would have thought I'd most consistantly fly my boyhood favorite, the Sopwith Camel, but usually it's a Nieuport 17 or 27 for the British, or an Albatros or Pfalz for the Germans.

 

When it comes to your son flying the same way, I don't find it astonishing at all. He's emulating his dad, and that's a good thing.

 

Heck

Edited December 19, 2008 by Heck

[Shaolin 0]

@ Stiglr,

I understand your point.

 

However, let me propose some of my own thoughts.

 

I've been a very long-time flight simmer. And, I've never had any problem flying any aircraft in any sim.

 

But, a few months ago I read a very, very powerful book about Nazi Germany. After reading that book, I took some time to examine my own wargaming practices, and where exactly I felt I stood intellectually flying German planes, driving German tanks, etc.

 

Ultimately, I came to the conclusion that, yes indeed, these are games. By playing the German side in a wargame I'm not condoning what the Nazi's did. By flying a German plane, I'm not pretending in some weird way that I'm now a German pilot. I'm playing a game.

 

But, having said that, there are some sims I fly, for example Aces High, where there are squads that only fly German planes. For some reason, that's just too...something...that just crosses a personal line for me.

 

So, I hope you can appreciate that while I enjoy simming a great deal, it is possible to be introspective and perhaps have some personal reason to have lines within our gaming.

 

And finally, in 'real life' I'm a Navy Orion pilot, and I've hunted real Russian submarines a number of times. But, I don't have any qualms about firing up an Akula in Dangerous Waters, or taking up a Foxbat in Falcon 4.

 

See ya,

Toonces

 

There is one thing crossing my mind, especially when it comes to flying/driving "nazi" planes/tanks but also the equipment of any other nation): It is important to remember, that not all soldiers of a country share its "current ideology" - many of the german pilots/soldiers/tank drivers/... where no nazis - they were just soldiers for their country (like it is with many other nations...)! But I am sure many of them were - you just can't distinguish them from the outside...

 

Sorry for getting political...

[Guest Stiglr]

JWeed asks:

Is it so wrong to think that a Vietnam Veteran, or a friend/family member of someone killed in the war would not want to suit up for the North Vietnamese?

 

It's not wrong to think that might be the case, (you can't tell someone how to feel from the gut) but the thinking behind it is just as misguided as with someone who "won't fly for the Nazis". It's the inability to see reality from a game. Period.

 

Now, to bring this back to some relevance, I recall that when the Strike Fighters ('60s jets) game was on the drawing board, and not even released yet, some raised the question of why they decided to base the game on two "fictional" countries that were very thinly disguised Israel and Syria/Egypt/Middle Eastern Arab countries. Instead, the question was posed, why not simulate Vietnam, since that's where THE largest war of the '60s was fought?

 

"Oh, NO, NO" went the cry from the John Wayne Flag Waving Simmers Society. "We can't simulate Vietnam!! We... we can't handle Vietnam...no, nope, can't go there, nope, no way.."

 

I'm dead serious about that. They actually hypothesized that "the gaming world" simply couldn't have a Vietnam sim.

 

Why? It's simple. Because, in their US-centric minds, they couldn't face that America LOST that war, and didn't want to look at it, even in a computer game.

 

This attitude is highly insulting to the entire world, because it suggests that all the other countries in sims that lost wars and battles, aren't as traumatized by that experience; so a WWII sim where Germans or Russians or Brits died, that's fine. But Americans? "No, we're such a special breed: we can't be seen LOSING, even in a computer game. You kidding me...?"

 

I recall being roundly castigated for identifying that astonishing arrogance and hypocrisy. And it wasn't until the StrikeFighters game was developed released and out on the market for over a year that work began on what became "Wings Over Vietnam" (which I might add, is now considered to be the best milieu simulated in that series). IIRC, it took a few well-received first person shooters in the Vietnam jungle to pave the way for sim fans to realize, yes we CAN and SHOULD include Vietnam in sims, just like any other war past present or future.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Dude, ENOUGH is ENOUGH, stop hijacking Gepards thread and starting all this when it has absolutely NOTHING to do with his question. Its getting VERY OLD and VERY FAST.

[Sakai 2]

I second that jarhead, very old, very fast. I'm a half and half american male that served this countrys armed forces that lives in ultra-white New England. I love my country and ALL that it stands for. But when I start up my WOE install and jump into a Mig or start up IL2 and rock out in the various models of 109 (getten better with the 190 as well) I am in NO way violating anything that I stand for in the real world. It's just a game.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Exactly, I have been to Iraq 3 times, and lost friends, and I still sim flying for Iraq AF, SO WHAT, WHO CARES, ITS A GAME. People need to grow up and get with the times, its all in fun, so to anyone and everyone concerned, drop the subject, or if u dont, do like Gepard KINDLY asked u to do, and take it to ur OWN thread and STOP hogging his. Its THAT SIMPLE.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Huh we had the Vietnam sim "Flight Of The Intruder" back in 1991 you know - as far as games go its mostly down to how much money the sales will generate tbh

 

People can do what they want - its their sim/game and their imagination - everyone has a fave side I bet and fave plane - wouldnt be human otherwise.

[Sakai 2]

LOL, I have that on CD, first time I got to rock a phantom on a sim. That was back in the Aces of the Pacific and Red Baron days. Anyone ever play SVGA Harrier?

[+Jarhead1 27]

OMG, FOTI? I had that for Nintendo, lol, Never could get the traps down on the carrier, lol.

[JediMaster 451]

Ok, now I'm LOL. "Some" raised the question??? It wasn't "some", Stiglr. It was you. I was there. I remember. Way to try and make people think you're not all alone out there waving the flag by yourself. Also, bravo on managing to bring up arguments from SIX YEARS AGO, again. Talk about obssession.

Do you have NOTHING else in your life to do but rehash the unpleasant flame wars on SimHQ when SFP1 was released? Are you persisting for YEARS on a subject no one else gives a damn about anymore in the forlorn hope that some day in the distant future there will be an upswelling from the masses praising you for your AWESOME foresight? A "God bless Stiglr" grassroots campaign to sweep you into the White House or something?

 

Where's the vitriol for the awful 2nd patch for Aces of the Pacific? What about that lame MP interface for Flanker 1? That damage model for F-15 SE 2 was just HORRENDOUS wasn't it?

Shall we go back farther? What was up with that Teapot Dome scandal in the 19th century? I mean what WERE they thinking??

 

It's almost 2009 now, Stiglr. Take a look outside for once.

 

I'm not locking this thread yet solely for respect of Gepard and his attempt, with others, to get this back on track. Stop placing rocks on the rails of this train so you can cry about poor railway safety.

[Guest Stiglr]

Response deleted by me, Tailspin.

 

Stiggy, go play somewhere else!

[+Jarhead1 27]

SO WHAT???? WHO REALLY CARES AT THIS POINT!!!!

[JediMaster 451]

Not many people have a problem with the truth. However, if your manner of presenting it is to break into people's homes in the middle of the night naked, squatting on their face, and then shouting it at the top of your lungs, the message gets lost due to the tactics of the messenger.

 

I think for a Xmas present to everyone here at CA you should take a hard look at HOW you are presenting your points. Just as "might doesn't make right", "RIGHT doesn't make right" either if you do it the wrong way.

[+Tailspin 3]

Sorry to butt in JM, but I don't feel like playing Stiglr's games today.

[Gr.Viper 131]

Sorry to butt in JM, but I don't feel like playing Stiglr's games today.

You mean Russian Roulette with a Colt 1911?