India sinks Somali pirate ship

[+ghostrider883]

I post this because my kid brother is an engineer on board one of Great Eastern Shipping Company's ships, MV Jag *****, that is enroute currently to an East African port.

It is re-assuring and heartening to see our Navy swing into action to protect our merchant ships :yes: .

 

BTW, the INS Tabar(F44) is a Talwar(Krivak III) class stealth frigate.

Indian Navy foils pirate attacks on Indian, Saudi ships

 

New Delhi (PTI): In the first operation in the Gulf of Aden since its deployment three weeks back, Indian Navy on Tuesday foiled an attempt by heavily-armed pirates to capture two merchant vessels, including an Indian flag carrier, off the notorious Somalia coast.

 

In a swift action, warship INS Tabar intervened to thwart two near-simultaneous attacks by pirates on an Indian cargo vessel MV Jag Arnav and a Saudi flag carrier MV NCC Thihama within 25 nautical miles of each otheron Tuesday morning.

 

The Indian warship, which was deployed in the region on October 23 in the wake of rising attacks by pirates on merchant vessels, received an SOS from the Saudi ship at around 1000 hours after a group of pirates surrounded it.

 

Marine commandos on board INS Tabar flew out in an armed helicopter and launched an assault on the attackers, who were in five speed boats, forcing them to flee into the Somali waters.

 

Even as this operation was on, the warship received a panic call from MV Jag Arnav, a merchant vessel owned by Mumbai-based Great Eastern Shipping Company, with about 20 crew members on board.

 

Arnav, a 38,265-tonne bulk carrier, was also ambushed by heavily-armed pirates in speed boats soon after it crossed Suez Canal and was eastward bound, the Indian Navy said here.

 

The pirates were firing at the vessel and making attempt to board it.

Edited November 12, 2008 by ghostrider883

[Jug]

I post this because my kid brother is an engineer on board one of Great Eastern Shipping Company's ships, MV Jag *****, that is enroute currently to an East African port.

It is re-assuring and heartening to see our Navy swing into action to protect our merchant ships :yes: .

 

BTW, the INS Tabar(F44) is a Talwar(Krivak III) class stealth frigate.

Great job, India Navy. Go get 'em!!!

[Stick]

Those pirates shouldnt be chased away;they ought to be shot and sunk!

[JediMaster]

Really. If they get chased off, they'll just try again.

[+Typhoid]

I post this because my kid brother is an engineer on board one of Great Eastern Shipping Company's ships, MV Jag *****, that is enroute currently to an East African port.

It is re-assuring and heartening to see our Navy swing into action to protect our merchant ships :yes: .

 

BTW, the INS Tabar(F44) is a Talwar(Krivak III) class stealth frigate.

 

Outstanding!!

 

Great Job!!

 

[MigBuster]

Nice one - amazing to think there are still such organised Pirates about catching ships!

[+Gepard]

Well done.

[+SkippyBing]

Those pirates shouldnt be chased away;they ought to be shot and sunk!

 

Which would be an act of piracy on the part of the navy vessels involved! Navy vessels actually have very few powers in international waters unless they're dealing with a vessel flagged in their own state or where there is an agreement with the flag state.

Depending on what ROE is under operation, e.g. acting in accordance with the Geneva Convention, there's also the matter of proportional response. Basically if someone waves an RPG at a warship, responding with a Harpoon strike would be highly disproportionate, pointing the main gun at them would be a more appropriate response. If they fire a 7.62mm gun at a warship opening up with a 5" gun would again be considered inappropriate if it's possible to respond with a similar calibre weapon. The best summary of this I've heard is 'Do what needs to be done with what you have but no more'.

 

Also good job by the Indians, a bit more of a proactive presence by some of the other navies and this problem might start to be resolved. Might devastate the economy of Somalia as well but hey!

Edited November 12, 2008 by SkippyBing

[+Gocad]

Most warships do have some light guns (20mm to 30mm) to repell small boats. These should be sufficient to deal with those pirate boats.

[schepper911]

An BRAVO ZULU to our Indian Collegues, i've been there and its an huge job but an very rewarding one when somethin happen keep up teh good work CTF 150

[Guest pfunkmusik]

Go ahead and wave that RPG, bud.

 

Yer about to get up close an' personal with a 5-inch gun.

 

pfunk

[+Typhoid]

Which would be an act of piracy on the part of the navy vessels involved! Navy vessels actually have very few powers in international waters unless they're dealing with a vessel flagged in their own state or where there is an agreement with the flag state.

Depending on what ROE is under operation, e.g. acting in accordance with the Geneva Convention, there's also the matter of proportional response. Basically if someone waves an RPG at a warship, responding with a Harpoon strike would be highly disproportionate, pointing the main gun at them would be a more appropriate response. If they fire a 7.62mm gun at a warship opening up with a 5" gun would again be considered inappropriate if it's possible to respond with a similar calibre weapon. The best summary of this I've heard is 'Do what needs to be done with what you have but no more'.

 

Also good job by the Indians, a bit more of a proactive presence by some of the other navies and this problem might start to be resolved. Might devastate the economy of Somalia as well but hey!

 

well........................

 

not exactly. Remember that pirates are not exactly flying a state flag, and are therefore not afforded those rights of protection under such a flag. They are, quite bluntly, fair game. They are particularly fair game if caught in the act of attempted piracy.

 

It depends on what the ROE in the area is in force. There are now, I think, 4 task forces or groups of warships patrolling the area operating under several different organizational authorities, and each warship also operates under its own national authority and ROE.

 

a very confusing situation to say the least.

 

But all one country has to do is declare the area a combat zone for piracy ops much like a "Maritime Exclusion Zone" in a developing conflict. Then the Navy of that nation will have full legal authority to engage on sight any vessel not flying a recognized flag or engaged in any operation that suggests piracy or attempted piracy. And one should remember that under international law, combattants captured out of any recognized uniform are not afforded any rights under the Geneva Convention. To put it bluntly, under international laws of the sea, they can in fact be shot on sight and if captured, hung from the yardarm without trial.

 

Now, no country is willing (yet) to go to those measures. But international law regarding piracy on the high seas is quite extensive and permissive for any country with the intestinal fortitude and will to go to the measures needed to stamp out this vile cancer.

 

To really stop the piracy cold, however, is even more simple. The target ships themselves merely have to shoot back in self defense and knock off a couple of these groups and that cost of doing business will make it very unpalatable for the pirates. The North Koreans did something like that not to long ago when one of their ships was captured. The crew waited until, coincidentally a USN FFG was close aboard tracking the ship, and then they stormed and retook their ship with a little assist from the USN FFG light machine guns. We then provided some medical assistance to the NK crew and patched up one of the surviving pirates being held by said NK crew, who declined to turn their prisoners over to us. Reportedly, they turned over what was left of them to the authorities at their next port of call..........

 

A few more like that and there will be no more piracy.

 

(and you won't find me, of all people, providing such a favorable comment on the actions of NK's!!)

[+allenjb42]

The Royal Navy's getting involved too, and the Russians...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7725771.stm

[Stick]

Which would be an act of piracy on the part of the navy vessels involved! Navy vessels actually have very few powers in international waters unless they're dealing with a vessel flagged in their own state or where there is an agreement with the flag state.

Depending on what ROE is under operation, e.g. acting in accordance with the Geneva Convention, there's also the matter of proportional response. Basically if someone waves an RPG at a warship, responding with a Harpoon strike would be highly disproportionate, pointing the main gun at them would be a more appropriate response. If they fire a 7.62mm gun at a warship opening up with a 5" gun would again be considered inappropriate if it's possible to respond with a similar calibre weapon. The best summary of this I've heard is 'Do what needs to be done with what you have but no more'.

 

Also good job by the Indians, a bit more of a proactive presence by some of the other navies and this problem might start to be resolved. Might devastate the economy of Somalia as well but hey!

 

An act act of piracy against which state???Somalia-ah my friend you have to be be joking right?

In any case I think Typhoid spelt out the essentials so I dont have to harangue you with legalese

If you have been following the news those waters are infested with those ruthless scum-they'd hold the Pope to ransom or shag a whale to death without a qualm...

Edited November 13, 2008 by Stick

[DWCAce]

At least one navy still has some balls. I know there's a ton of legal & moral requirements out there, but in my book, proportional response is a load of BS. If I was in command of a naval vessel and one of these rubber boats was causing trouble, I wouldn't send any of my crew out on deck to man up the .50 and become targets for RPG's or small arms. Instead I'd open up with CIWS.... it's about the same caliber.....

[Stick]

At times like this I say shoot the human rights gallery along with the bloody pirates!

[Ruggbutt]

Pirates don't pirate again once .30 cal pierces their bodies. Learn it, live it, love it.

[+ghostrider883]

It was Chetak helo that fired on the pirates.

 

INS Tabar escorting MV Jag Arnav

 

 

Indian Navy Marine Commandos landing on the Jag Arnav

[FastCargo]

Just a thought on the rule of proportionality (ie what the right amount of force is).

 

What proportionality really means is the proper amount of force used to get the job accomplished while minimizing the potential of collateral damage.

 

In other words, if there is a AAA gun on top of a building, you don't use a nuke to take it out.

 

However, there is nothing preventing using a larger weapon than needed if collaterial damage is minimal (or non-existent). At that point, using such a thing is usually a matter of munition effectiveness/availability/cost. Nothing prevents me from using a AC-130 to blow the crap out of a single person target if he's the only thing in 20 miles and that's the only thing I've got.

 

FastCargo

[johnrey]

Nice one - amazing to think there are still such organised Pirates about catching ships!

 

Hahahahaha!Good one MigBuster!

[TX3RN0BILL]

Heheh... 4 task groups of different nations and each with their ROEs... I wonder if kill-stealing of pirates will be considered piracy in itself?

[+76.IAP-Blackbird]

Nice to see some moement in this area

[Jug]

Which would be an act of piracy on the part of the navy vessels involved! Navy vessels actually have very few powers in international waters unless they're dealing with a vessel flagged in their own state or where there is an agreement with the flag state.

Depending on what ROE is under operation, e.g. acting in accordance with the Geneva Convention, there's also the matter of proportional response. Basically if someone waves an RPG at a warship, responding with a Harpoon strike would be highly disproportionate, pointing the main gun at them would be a more appropriate response. If they fire a 7.62mm gun at a warship opening up with a 5" gun would again be considered inappropriate if it's possible to respond with a similar calibre weapon. The best summary of this I've heard is 'Do what needs to be done with what you have but no more'.

 

Also good job by the Indians, a bit more of a proactive presence by some of the other navies and this problem might start to be resolved. Might devastate the economy of Somalia as well but hey!

That is quite politically correct. Que merde!

[JediMaster]

Really. Ugh. I can understand not using a missile against those small boats, after all they cost $$ and those boats are cheap. However, I think any caliber weapon from .30 to 16" is warranted (not that we or anyone else have 16" guns out there anymore ).

[TX3RN0BILL]

Couldn't BB61 Iowa be reactivated again?

Edited November 13, 2008 by TX3RN0BILL