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The_Editor

What the hell is this?

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Brigadier Admiral? The US used to call them Commodores.

:ph34r: CL

 

used to.

 

its gone back and forth. During WWII we used the wartime rank of Commodore (one star) and then after WWII reverted back to RADM with no one star. But the flags would be paid at one star, while wearing two, until they were on the "upper half" of the RADM list.

 

Obviously that was not equitable in comparison to the other, lesser, services and that was standardized back in the early '80's, with Commodore brought back for the one star. That was not popular since all of those officers did not like that term for two reasons;

 

In the other services a star (however many) was called a General and by God after 20+ years they all wanted to be an Admiral!! (rough quote.....)

 

Commodore is also a title. (ready to be confused?) any officer in command of a group of ships (squadron) or several aircraft squadrons of type (short of an Air Wing) is also referred to as a Commodore. So in a Carrier Battle Group heading out there was a Flag Officer in command who was the Commodore and with him was a Destroyer Squadron Commander (Navy Captain) who was also called a Commodore. Didn't go over to well.....

 

So about '86 or so we shifted back to the old terminology of RADM lower and upper half with one and two stars, but of course standardized with the other services for a selection process rather than the automatic advancement.

 

on a side note - I was then flying the NEACP (E-4B) and daily tracked those key people we had to track, including the DDO we reported to in the NMCC who were/are all one stars. So one morning I briefed the line up with a Commodore as the DDO. The next day I briefed our team with the same guy as RADM (Lower Half) which led to the very same discussion then and there as here above to my joint team. A very long discussion................

 

:biggrin:

 

so......

 

everyone confused now?

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The RN equivalent is Commodore, there's a handy comparison chart here

 

 

the chart is not correct. It has 4 star Admirals as O-9's and skips the Ens O-1's.

The ranks are all shifted by one.

Edited by Typhoid

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Fair one it is Wikipedia! I was trying to find an on-line version of the guide in the front of Janes but no joy.

Fortunately I can work on the principle of saluting anything with that much gold...

Commodore didn't used to be a substantive rank in the RN at all, it was basically used for Captains in certain appointments to give them seniority. They didn't even get a pay increase for a long time. At some point it became a substantive rank to help align us with the other services, at least one Commodore at the time tried to hide this from his wife to avoid her spending his pay rise. Suffice to say he was stitched up by his oppos!

Edited by SkippyBing

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The Navy has a messed up rank structure. The other Branches all match except the Navy. What bugs me is that not all Captains are really Captains.

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The Navy has a messed up rank structure. The other Branches all match except the Navy. What bugs me is that not all Captains are really Captains.

 

The Coast Guard also uses the Navy rank structure. It's actually pretty easy to get used to. As a matter of fact I have problems with the enlisted ranks of the other services with all the Staff Sgts, First Sgts, Sgt First Class etc....

 

Stretch

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The Navy has a messed up rank structure. The other Branches all match except the Navy. What bugs me is that not all Captains are really Captains.

 

That's right. Lieutenant colonels must salute Navy Captains. Keep in mind that the US Navy predates all other services, there was a Colonial Navy before there was an army.

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I think actually Ed that even the Marine Corps is a little bit older then the Navy, but not by much.Whats so hard to learn about the naval rank structure? I am a Marine, and we have it drilled into our grapes during recruit training, its easy, like anything else when u learn it and go over and over it. The ones I have the most trouble with are the damn enlisted ranks in the Air Force. There are just too damn many stripes on the sleeves of those guys, lol.

Edited by Jarhead1

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I think actually Ed that even the Marine Corps is a little bit older then the Navy, but not by much.Whats so hard to learn about the naval rank structure? I am a Marine, and we have it drilled into our grapes during recruit training, its easy, like anything else when u learn it and go over and over it. The ones I have the most trouble with are the damn enlisted ranks in the Air Force. There are just too damn many stripes on the sleeves of those guys, lol.

 

No kidding. I was being hauled back to the states on a C-141 and this loadmaster who was probably sporting more stripes then his paygrade looks at my 2 chevrons, Crow (that eagle thing), my Naval Aircrew wings, and asks or states that I'm an up and coming flight crewmen. I really wanted to take him behind the "comfort pallet" and sort this out but that wouldn't be the same as behind the line shack. Also it was his airplane. That could be one of my few brushs with good conduct and profesionalism or some form of responsible behavior on my part.

 

When I was in the training squadron we had a Senior Chief converting to our helo who started his Naval Aircrew days in the back of an SBD in WW2. He was wearing those really bitchin aviation greens. I looked at his left sleeve and said "Sugar Senior Chief. How many service stripes do you have." His left fore arm was maxed out on stripes. He say's to me: "Shush. Not Enough!"

 

I'd have no gripe with anybody calling me skipper and I would be stoked if some one called me Cammodore.

:ph34r: CL

Edited by charlielima

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"If it moves, salute it. If it don't move, paint it"

 

can't go far wrong.... :rofl:

 

Wrench

kevin stein

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Charlielima,

 

I laughed pretty hard about your comment being in the back of that C141. I was in Nellis during a Red Flag with an EA-6B outfit. Due to an accident one of our planes was damaged by a tow tractor. I was the duty section leader and had to get both my Maintenance Master Chief and my Maintenance/Material Control Officer from an after party of a retirement ceremony of another chief. They were dressed to the hilt in thier blues. My MMCPO had seemingly be in since Ely flew that Curtiss off the Pennsylvania. Anyhow, I picked them up at the MGM Grand out in town, drove them back onboard Nellis, with my MMCPO in front and the MMCO in the back. As we approached the gate there was an E-3 Air Policeman who upon seeing all the gold on the MMCPO, popped tall and saulted. The AP then said "Good Evening Admiral". My MMCPO with out missing a beat saluted him back and stated "Good evening specialist". As we drove on all of us were dying laughing in the car.

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Back in "The Day", the Navy Equivalent of a Brigadier General Rank(O-7 Grade) ( One Thick stripe and one thin one) was Rear Admiral, Lower Half. They wore 2-star insignia, however . The Navy brass knew who was what.

 

Commodore (one wide stripe) was a wartime-only Rank / Grade.

Rear Admiral, Upper Half (2 Star) was one wide and two thin stripes. Vice Admiral / 3 Star is one wide & 3 thin stripes. Admiral / 4 Sar is a wid e& 4 thin stripes.

 

IIRC, it went back and forth during the 70's & 80s between Commodore & 1/2 Admiral :-). It looks like nowadays, Rear Admiral Lower Half is back in style for 1-Star equivalents.

 

Gotta love it!

 

Rangerdog

Edited by Rangerdog

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I think actually Ed that even the Marine Corps is a little bit older then the Navy, but not by much.Whats so hard to learn about the naval rank structure? I am a Marine, and we have it drilled into our grapes during recruit training, its easy, like anything else when u learn it and go over and over it. The ones I have the most trouble with are the damn enlisted ranks in the Air Force. There are just too damn many stripes on the sleeves of those guys, lol.

 

I didn't say it was hard. Just different. I don't see any reason why it should be. I understand The Admiral/General difference but the rest to me seems like needless complications. I guess its the same reason we all wear different combat uniforms.

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Most navies base their rank structure on the RN's which goes back hundreds of years. Initially it only comprised Midshipman, Lieutenant, Captain, Commodore and Admiral for the officers ranks but over time it evolved which is why the 1st Lieutenant is normally a Lieutenant Commander....

Why is it different from the Army? Couldn't say, suffice to say the navy had a functioning rank structure when most armies consisted of whatever peasants you could get off the land and marching in the same direction.

In the UK to add to the confusion the air force uses some bastardised amalgamation of the navy and army's rank structure with Flight Lieutenants and Air Marshals.

Edited by SkippyBing

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I think actually Ed that even the Marine Corps is a little bit older then the Navy, but not by much.

 

:blink:

 

USN: 13 October 1775. Congress legislated the outfitting and manning of 2 ships to intercept British transports carrying troops and supplies to the colonies.

 

USMC: 10 November 1775. Congressional committee met at Tun Tavern to draft a resolution providing for 2 battalions of Marines to kick ass on land and sea.

 

I thought that was drilled into your grape? :biggrin:

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Congressional committee met at Tun Tavern

 

That's what I like lawmaking being done in a bar, we need more of that sort of thing. Might not be in quite such a mess...

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