F-100 vs MiG-17 strategy

[KingLear 0]

I'm flying the F-100 campaign and I do pretty well except when I'm up against MiG-17s.  They don't fly straight long enough for sidewinder shots and I can't turn with them for gun shots.  What's my best bet?

[+Jarhead1 27]

lol, Run away

seriously though, use ur aircrafts strenghs, u have afterburner and u have more thrust, so use altitude to ur advantage, u cant fight a MiG-17 like a Crusader or other mor agile aircraft can. As for ur winders, unless ur in the perfect launch parameters, ur B model winders might as well be unguided rockets. Guns, use a sneak attack on em as they fly back to base, go up on their formation and u and ur wingmen pop em all from .5 NM away, or shoot a winder at em when they arent turning. Thats about the best advice I can give u honestly.

[Rambler 1-1 9]

Well, I always try to get the altitude advantage, then I dive in on attacks. If I miss, I firewall it and go back up to try again. Only attack when you have every advantage, and never try to follow them for too long, or get into a turning fight. Remember that the hun doesn't accelerate or turn worth sh!t compared to the MiG, so try to keep your speed up.

 

You can also go really low, right against the deck to force one off your tail. It's kina cheating, because the AI can't fly really low, but it works. Also, if possible, buzz a friendly AAA gun site. They'll give you a hand always.

[triplethr3at 0]

Well, I always try to get the altitude advantage, then I dive in on attacks. If I miss, I firewall it and go back up to try again. Only attack when you have every advantage, and never try to follow them for too long, or get into a turning fight. Remember that the hun doesn't accelerate or turn worth sh!t compared to the MiG, so try to keep your speed up.

 

You can also go really low, right against the deck to force one off your tail. It's kina cheating, because the AI can't fly really low, but it works. Also, if possible, buzz a friendly AAA gun site. They'll give you a hand always.

 

 

DO NOT ENGAGE IN A TURNING FIGHT WITH A MIG-17!!!! I cant stress that enough. like everyone said before use your thrust advantage. If you are on a MiG's tail and he begins to turn pull up over him and roll the aircraf upside down. then roll the aircraft so that the area directly above the pilot (90 degrees above the gunsight) is directly infront of the mig where you think it will be in the next few seconds. Then pull in sharply. you will be in a perfect position for a gun pass from above but again do not turn into the MiG's turning circle. If you miss keep the nose pointed down to gain enough airspeed then repeat the manuver from below him then from above and so on. Your roll rate is far faster than his turn rate so roll verticaly within his turn radius.

 

If the MiG is on your tail hit the deck. Light afterburner and get as low as you can 50 meters or lower if possible. The MiG will not follow but will loiter above and behind you. Gain some distance and airspeed then pull up as hard as you can. Stay virtical untill you are at around 200 knots then gently pull back. The MiG will attempt to follow you but u will be much higher than he is when you stall. This will either put you on a head to head pass or at his 6 ocklock with both of you headed for the ground. If you are at a head to head pas do not engage. turn jerk and kick your rudder as to make urself as hard a target as possible and pull up again once you pass him. If at his 6 ocklock heading down wait untill he is about to pull up. The second he does fire the sidewinder and you should get him if not u can eaither pull into him to attempt a gun pass or choose the safer route and keep the nose down to gain more speed

[Southernap 1]

90% of people think in just two dimensions with air combat. What you need to think about is the third dimension, use your burner and go into the vertical and exectue slashing diving attacks against MiG's. Study up on the low and high speed Yo-Yo's along with vertical scissors. Another tactic would be a diving slashing attack as well, where you have the altitude on them and roll over diving on them to get the lead get with in range put rounds out and then pull up as you slide pass them using your energy to pull back up to altitude. The other thing to due is try and abuse your wingman to sandwich the MiG and force and advantageous shot by either of you. Eventually you will get the AI down low, slow, and vunerable; where you might be able to pull off an attack with a 'winder

[Lt. James Cater 62]

DONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIGDONOTTURNWITHTHEMIG!

 

Dealing with Mig-17s in a Hun means using vert for all that it's worth. If you do turn with one by all means think of what you'll do if you can't saddle the MIG within 10 seconds. Any longer and you'll bleed enough speed to make you a potential statistic. Either hit the burners and go up or point the nose down and slam the throttle so you can get enough energy and distance to allow you to re-engage

[eraser_tr 29]

The trick I've found with any fighter against a mig, keep your energy high no matter what. I couldn't kill ***t with an F-100 or 104 without a lucky missile hit before I learned to stay over 350kts all the time.

[+hgbn 91]

Couldnt agree more with the posts above. Allways fight in the vertical using zoom and boom tactics. I'm using deflection shots a lot. But it needs to be practiced jugding the range and speed of your target. So you can gain the needed lead on the target. So you dont wast to much ammo. the advantage is that you are pressented with a much larger target. Dont pull many G's when firring your guns, or they will jam. only use very short burst. If you are going to use winders. Fire them at close range under a mile out. most winder kills I got under my belt. is when I shoot from 0.5 - 0.9 NM.

[gbnavy61 1]

MiG-17s are a pain. I mostly come up against them in the Crusader. You can out turn a MiG-17 in an F-8, but you have to have him above 300 and you have to be above about 350. The biggest advantage in the Sader is that you can put on the speed faster than they can - I'd imagine its similar in the Hun. Do as most of the folks here recommend and use energy tactics (boom 'n zoom, fight in the vertical,etc.).

 

Turn-fighting them isn't a good idea, so if you try that, make sure you leave yourself an out. Best bet, particularly against the Fresco-A (without the afterburner) is to leave altitude below you. If you get into a bind, split-S the hell out of there, unload, and extend. Sometimes, the little bastards will follow you through the split-S, so after you get a little distance, pop up into a climb and leave them in the dust - works well in the F-8 (not sure if I'd try this against a MiG w/ Atolls left, though).

 

Now, for a really hairy time, try gunfighting a MiG-19. Those are the only guys I really worry about when in my Crusader. They're about as maneuverable as a -17, but with lots more thrust.

 

MiG-21's? Easy day.

 

(I guess my main bit of advice would be, ditch the Hun and pick up the Crusader. FLY NAVY!)

Edited February 15, 2009 by gbnavy61

[Doghouse 0]

LOL

[johnrey 0]

Do the high yo-yo!

[+Julhelm 266]

You can use the F-100's peculiar stall characteristics to your advantage. If flown correctly, the hun is actually more agile than the MiG below 350kts.

[macelena 1,070]

I make it at the World Wars way... dive, shoot guns calculating effects, and avoid the debris while cilmbing again before attacking the

next one

[GreyCap 0]

I make it at the World Wars way... dive, shoot guns calculating effects, and avoid the debris while cilmbing again before attacking the

next one

 

Ah yes! Like the P-47 “boom and zoom” attack!

[proleter 0]

 

 

 

It is for F-104 but works with F-100

[GreyCap 0]

Do we need the cartoon mod?

[MAKO69 186]

don't turn w/them let them turn scrub speed, out climb them they will try to climb w/you keep up your energy when they stall u got them. dont turn, if you turn as soon as they pull ahead of your gunsight(that means they are out turning you) break away get speed.

[+starfighter2 117]

In RL I would rather run away - to fight another day.

Ingame - if you can't run, gain up some speed and use attitude advantage if you can - if not - again - run away

[GreyCap 0]

Run away from a MiG-17? Those little buggers are made to be shot down, even in a F-100!

[+starfighter2 117]

Hmmmmmm

[+starfighter2 117]

The MiG-17F can maintain 8g turns, attain a maximum speed of 715 mph (Mach 1.04) in mild dive and can climb to 30,000 feet in only 3 minutes, with an initial rate of climb better than 14,000 feet per minute. The MiG-17F was a very nimble fighter that could prove deadly unless respected when engaged by pilots with superior training and tactics such as those used by the U.S. Navy and Air Force. One moment’s complacency when fighting against the MiG-17F could prove fatal.

 

Against a MiG-15 or MiG-17, the best tactics would be high speed slash and run attacks. It would be vital to see the MiGs first, 'case they were smaller. The F-104/F-100 would have been super for this, but it couldn't help take the fight to the enemy. The range was too short(F-104), they cruises subsonically like every other jet, and they can't turn for $#!*. The F-8 Crusader was, I think, the best fighter of the era. It was built to dogfight, and it was so much better than the F-100.

 

hehe, pilots in their F-8s would save the day!

Edited February 15, 2009 by starfighter2

[+starfighter2 117]

BTW In Nam........

 

F-100's were used early to escort F-105. Some came from bases in Korea if I'm not mistaken. It wasn't long before Phantoms reached the theator and took that mission over. It was never intended for the Hun to do that mission for the duration of the war. By mid to late 1965 (i.e. not too long after the war had started), the Hun was no longer performing escort duties. Of course at that stage in the war all the North had was the MiG-17, and the F-100 far outclassed it in technical sence (or on paper IIRC). In fact, in most early engagements when attacking MiG's sighted escorting F-100's (or F-104's), they simply turned away and didn't engage. I'd say whether you shoot the MiG's down or not, simply keeping them away from the bombers is a successful mission for the escorts.

 

Oh, and by the way I was doing some calculations on lightly loaded F-100's (i.e. flying a similar profile to that typically flown by the MiG-17 on a point defense mission), and Not as good as the MiG, but certainly not that bad. Of course, seeing as the F-100 was mostly tasked with close air support and other A/G missions this was always much lower, but it nonetheless F-100 isn't as inferior in air-to-air combat as you may think. (or feel on your own skin ingame).

 

Pilot is most important thing - not machine itself - proven so many times so far.

[GreyCap 0]

Yes, if the big lumbering F-4 can dogfight with MiG-17's, I'm sure the F-100 can do the same.

[+starfighter2 117]

However: one step further - compared with MiG-19>

 

There was one confirmed but hushed-over F-100 vs. MiG-19 encounter, in the early 1960s over Czechoslovakia. A USAFE F-100 from the 50th TFW accidentally crossed the border, and was forced down by two Czech MiG-19s (actually, S.105s) from Plzen-Line, and landed at that same airfield. Knowing how close Line is to the former Iron Curtain, the fact that this Hun could not outmaneuver and/or outrun those Farmers surely confirms the sluggishness and lack of responsiveness.

 

While the F-100 indeed was a further development of the F-86, the only American aircraft to actually put the lessons of the Korean War to use was the F-104. The Hun offered improvements in range and firepower, but none whatsoever in handling and hardly any in performance - certainly not to the level as was desired by the pilots.

 

Sadly for the USAF, when they got involved in Vietnam they simply did not have a better 'fighter' than the F-100 in their inventory. The 104 was already handed over to the Guards (both for range and it's crash rate), the 101 always was unflyable as a fighter because of it's backflip-tendency, the 102 and 106 were GCI-controlled interceptors in the strictest IA-PVO meaning of the word, and the 105 was a dedicated bomber. It wasn't until the F-4 appeared that the USAF got a real fighter again - all the Century-series aircraft were "excuses" for fighters. From reasonable to hmmm, but excuses nevertheless.

 

The only task in which the F-100 was really successful, was CAS.

 

Obviously, the MiG-19 had it's limitations, it's range being a pretty important one (although there was a number of trials with air-to-air refuelling with the MiG-19). But it was definately useful in it's intended role: that of a fighter. And while the MiG-19PM was a totally hopeless missileer, the handful of MiG-19PM(L?) with the PM's radar and Atolls was a lot closer to a real fighter like the F-8C/D than the Hun ever was.

 

Funny is that the F-100 and MiG-19 had a number of similar experiments conducted on them. Both were used for ZELL trials, and one of the MiG-19s refuelling probes tested was built almost exactly like the underwing-probe on the Hun.

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I'm pretty sure just about everyone here knows of John Boyd.

 

"40 second Boyd" was without question the greatest dogfighter ever to handle a Hun and took the aircraft past it's performance and design specs on a daily basis. His approach was what the Navy did with the F-4 in the late Vietnam era. Know what the edge is and push it further, and always keep your energy up and the enemies down.