F-15 Car Quals?

[Nick Tselepides 1]

A real F-15, and any USAF plane for that matter, or most, would break into a million pieces if it landed on a carrier deck--they are not made to stand the shocks.

 

:ph34r: Only an idiot would make a game with an F-15 landing on a carrier deck, and it sure happened with the makers of LOMAC. These days when no respect or faithfulness to reality exists, anything goes. Could not they include a Hornet or a Tomcat? Or are we players so dumb as to accept such unrelistic stuff? How many of us like our intelligence insulted in this manner? And what are doing to protest?

I have seen nothing but praise--yes, the game deserves it on the whole. But glaring monstrosities of that kind should be severely criticized so that they do not reappear again . Seems some people did not learn the lessons of the miserable failure of CFS3, which, no matter how MS may try and try, is dead in sales and in popularity.

[MadJeff 3]

Wow, who pissed in your Cornflakes today...

[lexicon 0]

Ya I guess I know what you mean. But if you don't have real data to comapre things on a virtual level to the real thing then it's hard to make some thing 100% right on. The models are close but if you don't fly the aircraft it's hard to make the adjustments needed for real flight simulations. A f-16 landed on a carrier a few times. the Navy used to have a group of f-16's. Even a c-130 can land on a deck. With the right preperations of course. Like a clear deck :)

[+Fates 63]

I don't think a MILLION pieces is called for...maybe a couple though. As an Aero Engineer I can assure you that almost all military aircraft could land on a carrier. I'm not saying that they could take off from one, but landing is a different story all together.

 

THe G-Loads are a matter of pilot training and technique. The aircraft (F-15) could IMHO easily accept the g-loads on the landing gear, and although maybe not designed for carrier landings, I'm sure it could do it. They may have to remove the gear for overhaul and NDT work as well as some airframe structure.

 

This is the F-15's Arrestor hook:

 

I'm merely commenting on Real Word...not LOMAC.

 

Cheers!

 

Fates

[+Fates 63]

BTW....some thought that an F-15 couldn't fly with one wing missing either..... They were proven WRONG!

 

http://www.usrcjc.org/photogallery/wingless_landing.htm

 

 

 

 

<C>

Fates

[Seawolf 0]

I heard about that, pretty amazing.

 

As far as the F15 being carrier capable, I think it could be but it would take more than just changing the gear. Take for example making the gear stronger to absorb the shock, well with strength comes weight. adding more weight changes the dynamics of the aircraft, center of gravity, reduces mission range (added weight), uses more fuel, because of the added size of the gear and gear bay aircraft may carry less payload. There is also avionics- although the avionics on the F15 can operate under high G loads it is not designed to operate under the shock of a carrier landing.

There are so many variables that go into making an aircraft carrier capable that changing the gear is only a drop in the bucket.

[switch 0]

Exactly Fates!

 

And Jinks - lighten up dude! Lo-Mac devs did not create any missions with

F-15s landing on carriers.

Also, People are just fooling around with the Mission Editor. You can put a US

carrier in the water and it is a "hard point". When I was doing touch & go`s

My VVI never showed more then 8 or 9 feet/sec drop. Sure as hell, F-15`s

landing gear can withstand more then that.

[Yojimbo 0]

apparently the body of the F-15 provides enough lift to keep the aircraft flying with just the 1 wing :)

[olaleier 0]

You need to lighten up abit Jinks.

 

Someone had some fun landing on the carrier with a plane that doesn't operate

from one, big deal. It's just fun!

 

And as for the "million pieces" bit...as stated above, an F-15 could've been landed

on a carrier, the tougher gear in Navy planes are built to sustain no-flare landings

through years of operation, not just to survive one landing.

 

edit: Btw, the F-15s arrestor hook would probably break though...when I say

"landing" I mean the touching down part, not the stopping. :)

The arrestor cables used on military airbases for emergencies stop the plane

in much greater distance than aboard a carrier.

Edited November 30, 2003 by olaleier

[ARCHER 0]

think the f15 land no prob on a carrier, only in a extreme emergeny,

flying over the sea for example sudden engine trouble, carriers nearer

than land base? your engines are dying, pilot makes a sudden mayday

call to carrier to land, ditch payloads external tanks ditch remaining

fuel, hook down bump on carrier.

 

hooks there for emergencys...

 

f15 is a sturdy aircraft, and the gears can take punishment, design of the

hook will be the same=solid built to stop the aircraft.

Edited November 30, 2003 by ARCHER

[Nick Tselepides 1]

;) I see your points.

The only on that is acceptable and valid as a pont is the fact that it is only a game. Apart from that F-15s do not have floding wings, and LOMAC makers should have been better -read on that. Now landing an F-15 on a carrier is the anomaly, not the rule. And it would break up for sure.

And what one can do with mission editor is totally irrelevant.

 

Also, flying an an F-15 with the wing cut off is old hat--we have seen that post a hundred times and the picture too, and it was not the only type that ever did it. Hundreds of planes have flown with wings broken off and that does not mean that sims should model them with the wings broken off.

 

Nesher, when he posted that thing for the fist time , just wanted to brag about the skill of Israeli pilots, effectively ignoring hundreds of both serrvice and test pilots who indeed have landed all sorts of planes with wings broken off, but as they were not Israeli, did not get a meritorious mention in his book. I refer you to the archives of the Royla Aircraft Establishment, the Memoirs of Edwards AFB, and many episodes in wartime...That matter has nothing to do with the issue.

 

You are evading the real issue, which is fidelity to reality against mythical stuff through poetic license.

 

Said clearly and with no doubts left. I will not come back to this.

 

Cheers

[switch 0]

Cool!

[Nesher 628]

Nesher, when he posted that thing for the fist time , just wanted to brag about the skill of Israeli pilots, effectively ignoring hundreds of both serrvice and test pilots who indeed have landed all sorts of planes with wings broken off, but as they were not Israeli

hey hey hey....

I didn't brag on the Israeli Pilots :P

I just said that in this case the whole wing came off while in the other accident

only part of the wing

you see the difference?

 

anyway, if a C-130 can Land on an Aircraft Carrier I'm sure the F-15 also can

[FatElvis 0]

A C-130 can actually approach at a slower speed then an F-15 and then slow down much much much faster once it's on the deck. It's amazing what reversing the pitch of the prop blades will do..

 

 

Lockheed's Ted Limmer, who checked out fighter pilot Flatley in the C-130, stayed on for some of the initial touch-and-go and full-stop landings. "The last landing I participated in, we touched down about 150 feet from the end, stopped in 270 feet more and launched from that position, using what was left of the deck. We still had a couple hundred feet left when we lifted off. Admiral Brown was flabbergasted."

 

This is off the Forrestal CVA 59, it's pretty damn small compared to todays CVN's lol. And they did it in rough sea's. Granted, that aircraft only weighed 85,000 and the C-130 can weigh in at 155,000 for cargo carrying without being in war time or needing a letter authorizing it. Still, I would check my form F a few times at 155,000 :)

 

 

Here is a link to a little essay about that take off and landing and at the bottem is the video , enjoy :)

 

 

 

C-130 Lands on carrier

 

 

As for an F-15 landing on a CVN in real life, I am sure I would rather eject then try it , the gov'ment can buy a new F-15 cause I am not all that sure about this reincarnation jazz. I will happily take my chances with the parachute opening and the sharks in the ocean.

 

However, I am sure that an F-15 or nearly anyplane that can come close to slowing down in the length of a carrier deck and has a small enough wing span can do it.

 

Landing gears breaking apart? Why? Why can't you land with the same decent rate as you do on land runways? Takes more skill I am sure, but you don't have to do your typical carrier landing.

 

The wires across the deck don't have as much give as the Airforce ones on land runways? I think you can set it for the weight of the aircraft. Many different types of planes at far different weights land there all the time, ther has to be a way to set the pull on the cables for the variance. I realize though, that they would use a totally different weight chart for the F-15. Maybe one that even allows the F-15 to stretch the cable well past the control island.

 

 

The only on that is acceptable and valid as a pont is the fact that it is only a game.

 

 

It's even a fun game to play.

 

 

Apart from that F-15s do not have floding wings, and LOMAC makers should have been better -read on that.

 

F-15's in LoMAC do not have folding wings. Maybe you should have been better read before claiming such things. The only plane in the whole series so far that has folding wings is the SU-33...I guess it kinda looks like an F-15 to some people.

 

 

Now landing an F-15 on a carrier is the anomaly, not the rule. And it would break up for sure

 

 

It would be the anomaly, because it would not be a simple thing to do, the whole deck needs to be used and it would not be something that is even useful, but sure, it can be done and done without destroying the airframe. The planes not made to land on the carrier can do it, but uses nearly the whole boat to do so. The planes actually made to land on the carrier, uses a small portion of the boat.

 

Would you argue that a cessna can't land on the carrier? I mean, man, the landing gears on the cessna's are pretty fragile as well and if it landed at the decent rates the navy pilots use, no way that plane stays intack. If any non-navy planes landed at the decent rates the navy uses for carrier landings, they would at best need a hard landing inspection and at worst maybe break apart. It doesn;t even have to be on a carrier, just need to descend like you think you have the landing gears of a carrier plane.

 

Truth of the matter is, the carrier deck is just another runway that is elevated and not very long. Adjust for the elevation and come in at a speed slow enough to stop before you go off the end, it's that simple. Sure, a rolling pitching deck will probably damage the landing gears no matter how lite you touch down, hell I have seen helicopters damage thier landing gears landing on a boat in the bearing seas.

 

Anyway, can't wait till they put an F/A-18 in LoMAC, till then, I will have to entertain myself by occasionally landing an F-15 on the CVN :P

[switch 0]

Anyway, can't wait till they put an F/A-18 in LoMAC, till then, I will have to entertain myself by occasionally landing an F-15 on the CVN  :P

And when that time comes, I hope the Lo-Mac devs will make a functioning

meatball on US carriers and find a way to make it visible from at least a mile.

 

BTW, that was a cool essey FatElvis

[snapple2993 0]

Well since my cornflakes are piss-free... I'll just ask a few questions, how's that carrier look up close? like lookin at the deck from the cockpit... I dont have the game yet, maybe after finals...

 

Maybe somebody can post some screens of really up close shots of just the carrier... dont know if static cams are available in LOMAC.

 

Also is there any kind of steam after cat-launches? Has this even been modeled?

 

I dont care about the commi carrier, just the real boat.

 

Somebody do carrier quals in the Su-25 on the real boat... that'd be funnier than the eagle :P

 

Cheers,

Jay

Edited December 3, 2003 by snapple2993

[switch 0]

Snapple, the US carriers are not fully functional yet. You can place them in the

theater using mission editor but there`s no aircraft based and operating from it.

They do have a fully functional air defence systems (sea sparrows, CIWS and

such) and if you create a mission and assign your aircraft to an opposing team,

they`ll blow you out of the sky before you get anywhere near.

With the Hornet add-on (I hope there is one) all the visual effects associated

with carrier ops will probably be there. And I hope that includes a working

and clearly visible "meatball"

Edited December 3, 2003 by switch

[FatElvis 0]

I didn't take any screen shots, but I landed the SU-33 on CVN 70. I also made about 60 F-18's, F-14's, E2C's, S-3's and assigned them to land on the carrier. Note...do not make all these planes in the same part of the sky or they will collide. I did that the first time and had about 40 parachuting AI pilots filling my screen.

 

 

Anyway, make yourself a Russian, choose the SU-33 then hit coilition forces and choose US. Now the Russians and Americans are on the same side and after you add in the carrier and anything else you want and you can do traps on the CVN all day long with no missiles being thrown at you.

 

 

I waited and waited and waited for all the carrier planes to land so I could take screen shots. But ther is no tower control assigning flight paths for the planes. They basically ALL try to land at the same time. They will try to avoid hitting each other, but they will ALL still race each other to land on the boat. This develops into such a cluster, that it takes hours and hours for them to land.

 

Ther is a point on the approach )short and final I guess) where if one AI planes makes it to, all the others vear off. Unfortuanately, usaully more then one reach it at the same time and they all vear off to try it again and again and again. They don't orbit the carrier in a que waiting to land. It's just approach..go around..approach..go around and repeat till they are on fumes and actually crash into the ocean. Of the 60 planes I had assigned to land on the carrier, only 14 actually landed. I assume the rest bingo'ed out of fuel and continued trying to land on the boat till they flamed out because of the lack of any tower cordination.

 

 

Also of note, the AI pilots don't seem to recognize a player's plane when it's on the ground or the deck of the carrier. The AI planes always taxi right into my plane. I have seen they don't taxi into each other very often, but so far, they always taxi right into my plane on the ground.

 

Hopefully, something will be done about this.

[snapple2993 0]

god the F-18 is gonna be sweet.... major let down if they dont add it... F-14 would be a nice one too.

 

But then again who knows what UBI has instore for us.

[Skater 0]

;) I see your points.

The only on that is acceptable and valid as a pont is the fact that it is only a game. Apart from that F-15s do not have floding wings, and LOMAC makers should have been better -read on that. Now landing an F-15 on a carrier is the anomaly, not the rule. And it would break up for sure.

And what one can do with mission editor is totally irrelevant. 

 

Also, flying an an F-15 with the wing cut off is old hat--we have seen that post a hundred times and the picture too, and it was not the only type that ever did it. Hundreds of planes have flown with wings broken off and that does not mean that sims should model them with the wings broken off.

 

Nesher, when he posted that thing for the fist time , just wanted to brag about the skill of Israeli pilots, effectively ignoring hundreds of both serrvice and test pilots who indeed have landed all sorts of planes with wings broken off, but as they were not Israeli, did not get a meritorious mention in his book. I refer you to the archives of the Royla Aircraft Establishment, the Memoirs of Edwards AFB, and many episodes  in wartime...That matter has nothing to do with the issue.

 

You are evading the real issue, which is fidelity to reality against mythical stuff through poetic license.

 

Said clearly and with no doubts left. I will not come back to this.

 

Cheers

1. The F-15 in LOMAC does not have folding wings. You are mistaking the Su-33 for the F-15 I think. I have seen the shots of the F-15 on Kuznetsov, but please remember that this is a $40 game.

 

2. The F-15 could land on a carrier, if the nylon barrier was up. Irreparable damage would probably result. The F-15 could not be catapult launched without serious modification. The cat would rip the nose gear cleanly out of it's housing when fired.

 

3. That Israeli incident is the ONLY time that an F-15 has been flown and landed with so much wing structure lost. It is also the ONLY time that ANY aircraft has been flown and landed with so much wing structure lost. It is truly a feat of incredible pilot skill, and a testament to the F-15's strength and build quality. Losing more than 3 feet of wing in almost any other aircraft is a sure ticket to a nylon letdown. I am not even sure if it could be repeated in another F-15.

 

4. The real issue is not being evaded... We all know that we are flying a $40 game sim. Not the real thing, and not a $40 million dollar high fidelity simulator. You need to relax.

 

-Skater

[GodNesS 0]

buttom line guys.... f15 isnt fit to land on carrier deck but it can right?

though i dont think it will be used for it now that the army has hornets and other plains that can land on a deck (sorry for the errors im realy realy tierd)

[switch 0]

...Maybe somebody can post some screens of really up close shots of just the carrier...

Since FatElvis mentioned it - I had to do it myself

[switch 0]

2)

[switch 0]

3)

[snapple2993 0]

Quick Q. Are the arresting wires just eye candy on the REAL boat, or can you actually snag them with the Navalized Planes?