First Eagles, Over Flanders Fields

[+peter01 2]

Yes, there is the copy protection and its a bit light in content in the original release.

 

BUT, apart from the wonderful graphics, the damage modelling, the engine management (quite complex for simple planes), somehow its is a huge breakthrough as a flying experience. The ww1 plane FMs (especially ww1, but best by far of any era I have tried) and somehow an truly incredible feeling of flying. ... its the FM, the physics and the feeling of altitude/height. There isn't anything around that even remotely compares.

 

The only comparison I can make is to the feeling I had about Il2 when it first came out about 7 years or so ago. But even more so, more breathtaking.

[PinkPanther 0]

They are myopic to put in such a DRM scheme. I'm betting they have reduced their potential sales considerably by doing this. Internet connections are unreliable so I can't trust their servers to always be up (especially considering they are in Russia), or my connection at my end either. Is RoF just scripted missions or is there a dynamic campaign system? Sounds to me like it is just scripted missions. Well...I want the game still and am hoping this server connection requirement is a misunderstanding or only applies to download Russian version. I will wait and see how the disk version works and keep my fingers crossed it is a more acceptable method of DRM.

[godzilla1985 0]

I agree with all you said peter01 as I have your FM installed in FE..amazing work BTW. And I have watch most if not all RoF videos..they are breathtaking. But the one and only major drawback to buying RoF is the stupid gotta connect for SP aspect. They tried to downplay this aspect of RoF by saying "well you only have to connect twice in SP" (once at the begining of play for automatic updates and varification and at the end to send stats) but to me thats two times too many. While I do have Broadband and this wouldn't present a problem in DL's or MP or whatever, it's the undeniable fact that this game wants access to my computer for me to SP every single time. What guarentee do I have from neoqb that a disgruntled employee or hacker might slip "something" into one of these packets and wreck havoc on my PC or worst yet collect personal financial information? Wasn't there just a news story awhile ago about some spy activity involving a seeming harmeless program (virus?) infecting computers all over the world, some in important governments agencies? The report said this program (virus?) was even able to turn security cameras on and off lol. Last I heard they still were not sure how it got in or who the perp was. Also what guarentees from neoqb do I have if they go under that I will still be able to play RoF? I got shouted down at another forum for bringing this up (like I was jinxing RoF or wishing ill will) but I felt it was a reasonable question. This isn't an issue of computer hardware advancements or a new OS making the game unplayable, but because there is no way to connect with a defunct server? This would be understandable if this game was being marketed as MP only but it's not so I felt it was a fair question. Rof to me is like a PC game paradox, looks to reach unbelievable highs in flight simming but has a albatross around its neck for the ability of an paying customer to play with no strings attached.

[themightysrc 5]

"Also what guarentees from neoqb do I have if they go under that I will still be able to play RoF? I got shouted down at another forum for bringing this up (like I was jinxing RoF or wishing ill will) but I felt it was a reasonable question. This isn't an issue of computer hardware advancements or a new OS making the game unplayable, but because there is no way to connect with a defunct server?"

 

This should be a very real concern to potential buyers, IMHO.

 

We know that WWI flight combat sims are a minority interest - that's simply the nature of the beast - and sales are likely to reflect this (along with any worries from potential buyers, effectively scared off by the necessity to be online, and the nature of the add ons, ie, via continued purchase). So how long would an online (only) game last if sales are poor? Who in their right mind would reinforce failure by continuing to support servers for a game that's only shifted X units, where the projection was for rather more than X?

[JimAttrill 24]

Indeed there are many a fond memory around WWI simming. I've recently installed Wings of Glory via DosBox because of the wonderful campaign and storyline. :)

 

The first sim I flew was WOG back in '94 or so. I eventually finished the game, winning all sorts of medals etc. I have tried to install it on my new computer using M$ Virtual PC dos box. I found that firstly WOG didn't want to install because it thought I didn't have enough memory - obviously some sort of integer overflow problem. Anyway, I got round that. The problem I have is that my old game port card doesn't fit in the new mob (ASUS M3-SLI) and the joystick was an old cheapo crappy thing anyway, never keeping its calibration for more than a minute or two. So I bought a decent USB joystick, but can't seem to get DOS to recognize the USB connection. It is no fun to fly WOG using the keyboard.

 

So I ordered OFF and bought CFS3 (first time I have actually PAID Bill Gates any money for anything). Didn't like CFS3 much, but am getting the hang of OFF, chugging around in a BE2b at the moment.

[Gr.Viper 131]

So I bought a decent USB joystick, but can't seem to get DOS to recognize the USB connection.

This can be used without setting up any virtual PCs

http://www.dosbox.com/

Can be configured to use a joystick too. After reading the readme

[JimAttrill 24]

Well I read the whole 22 pages of the readme and there is no mention of USB anywhere. Unless it will just work by magic?

[ArgonV 2]

The program DOS Box should be set up to auto detect USB port devices (Like keyboard and mouse). There also should be a way to change how the joystick is read. (timed=false/true in config.ini file for DOS Box)

Edited June 5, 2009 by ArgonV

[Gr.Viper 131]

The program DOS Box should be set up to auto detect USB port devices

Heh... I played first Red Baron using X-Box controller via DOSBox. It does detect controllers automatically.

[Rickitycrate 10]

I've flown OFF phase1 but didn't care for it enough to buy. FE is not hardcore enough (planes take off faster than an F18 jet on tarmac) so my only hope now is for Rise of Flight to give me what I really want in a WWI sim. I don't care if it doesn't come with lots of planes to fly out of the box because I appreciate quality over quantity.

 

If your mind is made up that's that but, OFF P1 was free as was OFF P2, as such works in progress. OFF BH&H is vastly improved over the earlier free phases. If ROF is a no go for you and you want a dynamic campaign all I can say is that from what I see in the forum and from my own long time WWI flightsim experience OFF BH&H excells at being immersive and even causes many of us to break a sweat and take time outs because of the intensity that it can offer. As it so often happens, sometime after initial release, there is a price drop. The base cost of OFF BH&H is currently $29.99 As for online MP I finally gave it a shot just recently and had a hell of a good time flying with these guys that I've gotten to know on the forum. I'm not trying to change your mind nor am I dissing another sim. Just wanted to share the price drop info and point out the opportunity. Thanks for reading this.

Edited June 22, 2009 by Rickitycrate

[Rickitycrate 10]

Indeed there are many a fond memory around WWI simming. I've recently installed Wings of Glory via DosBox because of the wonderful campaign and storyline. :) I have yet to have my full World War I sim dream realized on a modern PC. Red Baron 1 and Red Baron II/3d came very very close... OFF is on the tip as well. Still, there is something missing. I cannot quite put my finger on it. Perhaps, it is the ground war and detail? Or the true sounds of an open cockpit?

 

My fondest memory was when I first got Red Baron II and flew over an enemy town. The chuch bells started to ring! Then the flak got me from a bridge close by and I had to make an emergency landing at a near by airfield. I tipped over, and an ambulance came to get me!

 

 

Ah, Wings Of Glory... I busted 2 joysticks playing this one. I just loved it and had people watching the action over my shoulder from time to time. The variety of planes was great and the Zep gave me buckfever.

[Cameljockey 3]

Here's a couple more OFF shots.

[carrick58 23]

Did anyone here play the old game called Blue Max.

Also enjoyed that one before Red Baron.

 

 

Wings of Glory was my intro to flight sims played them all. Red Baron and Red Baron3D was my favorite played it to death then along came new computers driveres ect. and the old fun games wouldnt play. Still a problem as I struggle to get Cfs3 running on my new computer so I can load OFF and be happy one more time Tail Skid aka carrick

[carrick58 23]

Wings of Glory was my intro to flight sims played them all. Red Baron and Red Baron3D was my favorite played it to death then along came new computers driveres ect. and the old fun games wouldnt play. Still a problem as I struggle to get Cfs3 running on my new computer so I can load OFF and be happy one more time Tail Skid aka carrick

 

Just one more thing. Rise of Flight: Read that it must be sever connected that turned me off. Unless you can play a game when the net is down and dont have to connected just to play solo I dont want it besides you may have to update your computer just to play it. Its a no buy for me.

[BigJim 0]

Just one more thing. Rise of Flight: Read that it must be sever connected that turned me off. Unless you can play a game when the net is down and dont have to connected just to play solo I dont want it besides you may have to update your computer just to play it. Its a no buy for me.

 

The complaint about DRM always smacks of a suspicious need to have all the code available to be happy?

DRM is the copy protection for RoF <shrug> doesn't bother me, I own the game and have been working it for 2 days, I just ordered all the stuff for OFF and will enjoy that one too

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

Favorite flight sim moment:

RB3D, flying right over the front lines, low...really low, and hearing the soldiers cheering me! (low sound of "yeahhhhh" heh!). Had to do it a few times to realize what was actually going on! They were my troops btw.

Yes, church bells in the towns was cool!

 

I'm looking forward to playing both games....probably more excited about OFF just because of how awesome the people in the community are.

[+Tailspin 3]

I've flown OFF phase1 but didn't care for it enough to buy. FE is not hardcore enough (planes take off faster than an F18 jet on tarmac) so my only hope now is for Rise of Flight to give me what I really want in a WWI sim. I don't care if it doesn't come with lots of planes to fly out of the box because I appreciate quality over quantity.

 

 

Not sure what you think is "correct" but a lot of these fighters in fact got into the air very quickly...much quicker than an F-18 for sure. Looking at a known example, the N 28 flown by Tallman and recounted in "Flying the Old Planes", had a takeoff roll estimated at 220ft. A quick in-game test with the N28 in FE comes very close if not spot on to that distance.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Tailspin

[JediMaster 451]

I actually think that was supposed to be the sound of infantry charges, not specifically cheering you.

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

I actually think that was supposed to be the sound of infantry charges, not specifically cheering you.

 

LOL!

 

and here all these years I thought it was my amazing flying that made them cheer!

 

 

either way, it was a great effect....shows how important sound is for polishing a game.

[Rickitycrate 10]

I actually think that was supposed to be the sound of infantry charges, not specifically cheering you.

 

 

JM, you had to go and spoil it for him.

[rabu 9]

OFF Between Heaven & Hell is my top choice over any WWI sim that has ever been done. It is the most well rounded with a dynamic campaign, history based, including the weather and battles going on around you along with a full roster of planes to fly and thousands of authentic skins. The flight model may not be as good as ROF, but it's still excellent and the AI is much better and more challenging. I'm already hearing many players on the ROF forum bragging about shooting down 8 planes, etc., in one mission.. in OFF that's almost impossible, though I have heard one ROF fanatic earlier brag about how OFF was too easy, since the other recent ROF arcade boasts, that poster has suddenly been quiet. In OFF, on full real settings, you are lucky if you survive a few hours of flight time.

 

But, I also am enjoying ROF, The most impressive thing is the flight modeling, and also the use of lighting in the sim to create a believable environment. The cockpits are excellent, hi res, and are animated, as is the pilot from the outside views. The terrain looks rather cartoonish, and there are repeating patterns visible, especially at the front. The rivers, especially at lower altitude are way to pristine and blue, but the reflections and animated surfaces are great. Other areas, like the towns are really well done. There are no seasons yet.. seems like everything is "coming later."

 

I was worried about the DRM but have found it to not be a problem and the updates given are automatic, fast and require no user input. I too worry about what happens if they go under, I will loose all use of the game, but maybe, if that happened they would give some sort of crack to those who bought it. Haven't heard anything about it though, and probably won't. One thing I don't like is you can not resell the game to any one, that seems really unfair and unnecessary and if you buy it and don't like it there is no refund either.

 

The small number of included planes, now four, is really lean, but the add on planes are apparently going to sell for only about $7.50 each.

 

ROF feels sort of empty when flying, even over the front, with the explosions all around, it just isn't done very well. I think it's because all of it is scripted, triggered actions around you as you fly, and if you don't follow a flight plan of the mission, you don't see much going on.

 

It comes down to, I am happy to have both OFF and ROF to fly and am looking forward to adding FE in and CK when it comes out as well, but OFF BHH gives me the most enjoyment so far. ROF seems like more of a fm sim exercise then a all around WWI flight sim experience.

 

Incidentally, if you are going to compare OFF, bite the bullet and get phase 3 BHH.. Phase 2 is no comparison.

Edited July 12, 2009 by rabu

[rabu 9]

I actually think that was supposed to be the sound of infantry charges, not specifically cheering you.

 

Yep, and unfortunately they took the animated soldiers, how ever crudely done, out when the 3d version came out.

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

Too bad it flunks the basic flight sim test. Flight model.

 

I dont think it does. I actually can fly in RoF amazingly well, but OFF is extremely difficult.

Different flight model, yes, flunks it? noooo.

[rabu 9]

Sorry, as a certified pilot, I have to say OFF doesn't have the basics in physics or flight modeling. I think part of it has to do with the fact that the engine was made for a WWII sim. OFF planes fly like they are on rails not to mention stall, spins are completely wrong. I remember once seeing an AI pilot attempt a loop and it stalled at about 250 degrees, then it just slid backwards like it was on a rail....I mean straight back into the ground. It flunks it.

 

Your opinions really don't carry much weight anymore. You are always contradicting yourself and your constant put downs of OFF are getting really tiresome and obvious. I'm going to quote you so others can get an idea of what you are all about. I don't know what this hatred is of me and OFF but it's really getting out of hand. I've constructively criticized things in ROF that I think need improvement, but have always said why and I've always pointed out the very positive things about ROF and the obvious fact that it's early and things will undoubtedly improve. But some things in ROF I feel are real problems and I'm not sure they can get beyond them and am surprised they won't address the many complaints with some answers or reassurances.

 

Awhile back on the ROF forum you were putting down OFF saying that it was way to easy to shoot down the AI planes etc. and there fore should not be taken seriously as a WWI flight sim.

You said,

"People who like this sort of sim are people who like other hard core sims such as Blackshark, some of the Janes series, Falcon 4, Microsoft civilian simulators (yes, when you use it properly, it's a study sim), and the lockon series. There are more but these are just a short list. Anyway, if flown with realism configuration at it's highest, it's not a sim you're going to fly and shoot down 5 enemies (or more) per mission like OFF, but a more realistic one where you will probably die trying to do so." (post 2757573)

 

Why didn't you comment on this following thread on the ROF forum to compare your shooting skills in ROF. From the ROF comments below, if you were so good in OFF, or if it was so easy to shoot down AI in OFF and is so arcade as you suggested, you must be spectacular against the AI in ROF! Just look at these comments on the SimHQ ROF forum about their records after it has only been out a week: (Thread "1 to 1 record")

 

"I got up to 7 kills using DVII. Can anyone do better? Settings - Full real. "

"8 in the DVII. 5 in the Spad"

 

"On my 3rd try I got up to 13 in the Spad. Only tried the DVII once and just got two."

 

"On full realism settings, with all the limitations on ammo and all, I average between five and six machines, before I run out of ammo, per play of the 1 VS 1 scenario, for the DVII. I will definitely try for more."

 

"I got up to 11 with DVII. Full real settings."

 

"I just scored 19 kills in 1 vs. 1, flying the Fokker DVII, full real setting and all the limitations in place. I had to stop because I ran out of ammo."

 

"Well I tried again before going to bed last night and I managed to get 13 again before one of those pesky rear gunners ended my run!"

 

"My record so far is only 3 aircraft wiht full realims and limited ammo (Fokker D.VII). Then again I only got my game this morning, so tomorrow I propaly have more than that"

 

"Well I tried again before going to bed last night and I managed to get 13 again before one of those pesky rear gunners ended my run! I definitely need better tactics with those guys."

 

Something is definitely wrong here and totaly unrealistic.. not sim quality at all. Historically, these guys would be dead, or in OFF they would be dead.. I've been following the accounts in OFF and no one has been able to get kills like these accounts in ROF. But, maybe ROF just needs improvements, like it does in so many other areas? Nothing wrong with that and I will give them the benefit of waiting for the improvements, because I see so much potential in ROF, but I still think OFF BHH has a lot more to offer at this point, and yes, it is one heck of a real WWI flight sim, and so is ROF.

 

 

I'm really getting sick and tired of your constant attacks on me and OFF, so here's some of your recent OFF bashing on the ROF forum at SimHQ, quotes of you with links, nothing taken out of context:

 

You said, "this is a simulator, not an arcade game" and that gets some folks very mad.", (post 2764888) etc.

 

Another ROF customer, CamelJockey was really unhappy with the game and wanted to sell it. He found out that you can't sell ROF because it only works for the original buyer and ROF wouldn't give him a refund of his $40. CJ was obviously unhappy and complaining, you jumped in and this was your comment:

"I can only roll my eyes at these OFF head comments. Sheesh, will it ever end? Well, I received my copy yesterday, installed it, and enjoying the heck out of it. It's pretty simple, this ain't an arcade game. It's a FLIGHT SIMULATOR. I can understand that folks who like arcadish "flight simulators" may find ROF a bit too challenging to get enjoyment out of it. I say to those folks, turn down the realism or go play a simpler game like OFF." (post 2757239)

 

More:

"I should expect to get attacked after saying that OFF is an arcade game. What was I thinking? I'm still firm in that there is no comparison between OFF and ROF in terms of "flight simulation".

(post 2757859)

 

Your reply to a player having server problems with ROF and noticing aircraft spawning instantly, Your reply:

"Not true for ROF. I think the guy is talking about CFS3 or OFF." (Post 2757261)

 

Again, saying OFF is not a serious simulator:

"I'm sure OFF is a nice game and there is definately a loyal following. A game, yes. Simulator (in the hard core sense) no. Sorry, it's just not in the same class as ROF. It's like comparing Comanche from Novalogic to Blackshark from Eagle Dynamics.... a totally different ballgame." (post 2757290)

 

 

You have a real problem and I really think you need to just get cool down. I really like ROF and want them to be successful. I don't mention things that are problems simply to put them down or say that they are not worth buying, yet you seem determined to bash OFF and make negative comments about it, most of them untrue or exaggerated.

Why don't you just lighten up and enjoy both of these sims.. they are both WWI sims, each with a lot to offer. If you don't like OFF BHH, fine, but don't throw out criticisms that are off base, untrue or exaggerated, obviously hostile and vindictive.

Edited July 13, 2009 by rabu

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

ooohhh snap!

 

 

 

Best advice I can give you BW is:

if you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all.

 

I like RoF too. Gonna stick with it and buy more planes.

 

OFF is fun. Good flight sim.

 

see? easy to be positive. :)