MigBuster 2,884 Posted August 31, 2009 Note the line that 2 of the MiGs are ready - after 20 years!! Iraq seeks Serbian return of MiGs The Iraqi authorities say they are negotiating the return of 19 fighter jets which were sent to the former Yugoslavia in the 1980s for repairs. A defence ministry delegation has gone to Belgrade to discuss bringing the MiG-21s and 23s back into service. A spokesman said the aircraft, whose existence had recently come to light, would be an important addition to Iraq's defence capability. Two of the MiGs were ready for immediate use, a statement said. The statement did not specify how the discovery was made or what condition the other 17 aircraft were in. At the moment Iraq's air force has no jet fighters, only helicopters, and it had been planning to buy 18 F-16 fighters from the US manufacturer Lockheed Martin. It is not known if the discovery of the MiGs will change that. Sanctions and flying restrictions were imposed on Iraq following its 1990 invasion of Kuwait, after which Saddam Hussein's government was unable to repatriate military equipment located abroad. After his government's overthrow in 2003, the Iraqi state collapsed and its army was disbanded by Iraq's US-led occupiers. Baghdad has struggled to rebuild its military capability since then. The Iraqi defence ministry spokesman said four Iraqi navy vessels had also been discovered in Egypt and Italy, as well as "aircraft and equipment in Russia and France". Saddam Hussein co-operated closely with the communist-ruled Yugoslav government and its Serbian successor, led by Slobodan Milosevic. Serbia's defence minister visited Iraq earlier in August and Belgrade has recently signed deals to export hundreds of millions of dollars worth of military equipment to Iraq. From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8230438.stm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+starfighter2 117 Posted August 31, 2009 Those MiG's are junk, otherwise we will be using them already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted August 31, 2009 Two of the MiGs were ready for immediate use had been planning to buy 18 F-16 fighters from the US manufacturer Lockheed Martin. It is not known if the discovery of the MiGs will change that. I can just see that... - Stuff your F-16s, we got two 20 year old Fishbeds!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted August 31, 2009 Yeah, but never underestimate the power of FREE! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWCAce 19 Posted August 31, 2009 Maybe they want them back to sell to museums! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cali 6 Posted September 1, 2009 Even though those Migs are ancent, at least it would be a start for a Air Force that doesn't have a single fighter! They could use them for training, getting the pilots used to flying. But what kind of shape are they in and how hard would getting parts for them be? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 11,295 Posted September 1, 2009 Maybee they only want to give their pilots a cheap flying machine. If you see what it cost to hold a F-15 or F-16 one hour in the air, then you can understand that they will use the good old reliable and cheap Fishbed. High tech fighters are senseless in Iraq. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vanir 0 Posted September 3, 2009 Better things to spend money on. Better to move to the Fulcrum than overpriced Vipers. Better foundation keeping with commonality for that. MiG-21/23 may have low contemporary air to air performance with Jaybirds but still good ol' fashioned non-bypass high Mach performance and good attack capability. I would've preferred Australia went with Fulcrums and Flankers instead of Joint Strike Fubars but too many deals under the table for that. I'd take 80's Russian gear over revamped 70's US update recovery projects, I'd even take them over the latest US barely supersonic car salesmanship. Low RCS an archer, or try to outturn an OGV Fulcrum, hell even low RCS a datalinked phased array if you dare. But for Iraq, where you spend the dollars just now I suspect is everything. Buy F-16 and they're playing catchup for the fifteen years at any rate, at great cost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted September 3, 2009 (edited) Better things to spend money on. Better to move to the Fulcrum than overpriced Vipers. Better foundation keeping with commonality for that. MiG-21/23 may have low contemporary air to air performance with Jaybirds but still good ol' fashioned non-bypass high Mach performance and good attack capability. Difficult to say really because I suspect the infrastructure of the Iraqi Air Force was totally dismantled in 03 so they may be starting from scratch again - in which case it doesn't matter which way they go. However why buy Russian - the airframes are comparable in performance (inferior in some aspects / better in others) to the F-15A/16A which they were designed to compete against - but where it counts in the avionics and technology they are so far behind the argument is mute. I would've preferred Australia went with Fulcrums and Flankers instead of Joint Strike Fubars but too many deals under the table for that. I'd take 80's Russian gear over revamped 70's US update recovery projects, I'd even take them over the latest US barely supersonic car salesmanship. Low RCS an archer, or try to outturn an OGV Fulcrum, hell even low RCS a datalinked phased array if you dare. Lucky for the Aussies you are not in charge then - do you know the difference between a 5th gen fighter and a (Claimed) 4++ gen one?. And please - I really don't want to see any links to Karlo Kopps laughable material. You do realise the Russian economy has been in a pretty bad way since the collapse of the USSR so im not sure why you think they stood a chance of keeping up with the US R+D budget Being able to out turn another jet is fine if it can - but good luck out turning a modern missile. But for Iraq, where you spend the dollars just now I suspect is everything. Buy F-16 and they're playing catchup for the fifteen years at any rate, at great cost. Well that assumes you know which model the Iraqis would be getting. F-16As to Block 15 are pretty old hat unless they have the MLU on them in which case they are equal to a block 50s. If LM ship them Block 60 equivalents they have something that can beat anything - a 5th gen fighter should kick its A though. Edited September 3, 2009 by MigBuster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted September 4, 2009 There's also that whole "how many hours can you get in the air with a dozen planes in a month" issue of MiGs vs F-16s. Fulcrums do not have a high reliability rate. After all, Germany dumped theirs PDQ but kept the older Tornados. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Caesar 305 Posted September 4, 2009 (edited) I wonder if they want the MiGs back just to HAVE something to put in the air before they get newer A/C. As it stands, the MiG-21 and -23 are older tech, though the -21 was and still is a fine plane (and is hard to see in a dogfight, if it gets that close), and the -23 is good for the strike role. I think there's a good deal of merit with the F-16: not super expensive, very maneuverable yet also a proven bomb truck, able to give larger aircraft a hard time with ease. Israel has proven them to work well in various engagements both in the air and against ground targets, and also proven them to work in a desert environment. Vanir, I have no idea where you get this stuff from. Iraq is not even considering buying a low-RCS platform, so why you'd bring it up is beyond me. Though the F-16 will show up pretty tiny on a radar without any RAM or inlet change. If they had the option, I'd think they'd certainly want to go with the low-RCS because it'll blast your Fulcrum, Flanker, or whatever out of the sky before it ever has the chance to employ an Archer. And have you taken a class on radar theory? I doubt it from how you're describing reflections or the use of phased-arrays. Not that it's for discussion anyhow, being that a lot of that is classified Secret/NOFORN or above. Historically, in Desert Storm we saw what the Teen-Series did to the Fulcrum, and more recently, we also saw how the F-15 and F-16 aggressors could get the better of the Su-30MKI thanks to that controversial debriefing you can still find on YouTube following Red Flag in 2008. Draw what you will, but the Eagle and Viper still were able to achieve dogfight kills against "more advanced" Flankers. I think that Iraq would be very well to select the F-16. Seems to me that those "revamped 70's US update recovery projects" did, and continue to do damn fine. Edited September 4, 2009 by Caesar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Weasel Keeper 0 Posted September 7, 2009 Block 15 F-16s are "old school"...but I think the Dutch are still getting their feet wet with them. A year ago I sent a perfectly good battle proven block 25 to the boneyard...along with 16 others, and block 30s are getting ready to go. Items up for bid... :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted September 7, 2009 A canopy and instrument panel would be awesome for a sim pit! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rotarycrazy 4 Posted September 8, 2009 What about all the planes that went to Iran in the 1991 golf war? where they ever return? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted September 8, 2009 What about all the planes that went to Iran in the 1991 golf war? where they ever return? Iran decided to keep them as compensation for the Iran / Iraq war I read. Which is fair enough if you consider that war I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fam 0 Posted December 12, 2009 Power of Middle East Air Forces Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
