Flying for the other side.

[Flyby PC 23]

I tried, but I can't fly for the other side. It just isn't right.

 

I find myself cheering when the good guys come to shoot me down and it always seems like such a long way to bomb somebody I might know.

 

 

 

 

I tell myself it's just a SIM and doesn't matter, shut your eyes and pull the trigger........ but then I know I'm being silly. This is OFF, and it does matter.

[Morris 2]

u are very strange.

 

[HotNess 2]

yeh i think you need help..lol...im am a ver prod brit,a true brit,rule brittania and all that,screw rest of johnny foreigners....eeeeexxxccept when flying in OFF...where through and through im a german and bloody well proud of it and cant wait to shoot the brits,however,i would let a brit live if i had choice of killing a franchman...however.i would let brits and french live,and chew of my own arms and legs,and crawl through no mans land naked and painted in a big bulls eye if for just a glimmer of chance to kill a yank..or even hit him with my stumps lol..x

 

xx V xx

Edited February 6, 2010 by HotNess

[Olham 164]

Well, Flyby, as long as you can't get that 'good guys - bad guys' thing out of your mind,

it will be impossible.

But even then, I think we may rather relate to the our homeland. Games with frontiers-

we still have that tribal thinking in our brains.

 

I mostly fly my native side, but really enjoy the French or Bristish side sometimes,

and had an American pilot from Dodge City, Kansas, flying a Nupe 28 - a real hotspur.

I imagine to be a bloke from a small village in Cornwall, or a young dude from Arras,

defending his fatherland - and it works. I can feel his emotions very well, as much as I

can feel the German pilots side.

It may help to read pilot's books from the "other side" - I recommend Udet.

You will see, there isn't much of a difference in their attitudes - it's only in our minds.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Olham

[ConradB 0]

I don't mind which side I fly on. I prefer the GAS over the others, since I like the aircraft designs. But I like flying with a SPAD or SE5 squad once in a while. Love them inline engined planes.

[Slartibartfast 153]

I must admit I am with Flyby on this one I tried out those German machines and it doesn't feel right in OFF... In IL-2 I have no problems taking up a German machine heck I have even been known to fly a French machine on the odd occasion... but OFF thats different... its got to be a good old battered Sopwith... So dont worry Flyby your not alone...

[Hasse Wind 46]

One of the great things about OFF is that it gives me the possibility to experience WW1 air combat from many different sides and fly both bombers and fighters. I've had long campaigns for each nationality currently included in the sim. But since I like trying to survive as the underdog, most of my careers have been on the German side. But I also really like flying the French planes, so after the German campaigns, most of my flight hours have been on the side of the Third Republic.

 

Most people don't seem to know it, but in many ways the French air force was the pioneer air force in the world, using many tactics and formations in the war long before the others, so I'm a great admirer of the French achievements in aviation.

[Wels 2]

Hello,

not only "In a way", french planes were the first to be really able to fly, think of Paris from 1910 to 1914 ! The whole world's pioneers gathered there to look and experiment. Certainly the Wright brothers were a bit earlier, but they did not really contribute - the french found the secrets of flying out for themselves. Jathos's and Grade's planes in Germany, the brazilian Santos-Dumont's 14bis in France - they flew even before 1911, let alone Ferber, Farman, Blériot or Levasseur's aéroplans. This was a whole nation in a flying fever.

 

And i also find it very strange to fly for the british . I mean they were those guys who made this 1914-18 war a world war, in declaring war to Germany. Just think about Germany being able to get to Paris in time without british intervention, peace treaties, drawback at all fronts, and maybe no thought of revenge, and no Mr. Hitler.

From all that i have read, including Churchill's and Asquith's memoirs, the Entente was not the white side in shiny armour. It became in WW2, but spoiled this a bit with their bombing activities. I'd rather be flying for the US in WW1 .. if there weren't those nice british planes .

 

Greetings,

Catfish

Edited February 6, 2010 by Wels

[Hasse Wind 46]

 

And i also find it very strange to fly for the british . I mean they were those guys who made this 1914-18 war a world war, in declaring war to Germany. Just think about Germany being able to get to Paris in time without british intervention, peace treaties, drawback at all fronts, and maybe no thought of revenge, and no Mr. Hitler.

 

 

I'm sure there would have been thoughts of revenge on the French side, just like there were after the Franco-Prussian War of 1870-71. But it's another thing altogether whether they would have been able to do anything to get their revenge against Germany, at least on their own. Interesting speculation though.

[Flyby PC 23]

It is a bit weird. I would swear I was pretty dispassionate about WW1, even WW2 to the same extent. I have no hostility towards the Germans, none whatsoever. You're correct Olham, it isn't good guys vs the bad guys, and despite my unfortunate turn of phrase, that's not actually how I think of it. I'd like to think I could be wholly objective and 'fair' about every aspect of our history. I'm not as well read about WW1 as I might be about WW2, but I do indeed read books from all sides and any persuasion.

 

 

But whenever I take to the skies in a Fokker or an Albatross, seems there's always a niggling conflict of interest. Sopwiths and De havilands etc fly for 'us', and the Fokkers etc fly for 'them'.

 

Brainwashed? Biggoted? Good Lord, I do hope not.....

 

 

edit - And regarding tensions with the Entente... As Churchill said about the Americans and Soviets in WW2, "The only thing worse that fighting a war with allies, is fighting a war without them".

Edited February 6, 2010 by Flyby PC

[Wels 2]

Hello Hasse Wind,

 

we have discussed that before at length at the aerodrome and some other WW1 history forums. It is unbelievable what you find out when you're digging deeper. It seems England has just prolonged its policy of not opening its WW1 archives to the public, but "Honi soit qui mal y pense".

 

There are interesting texts from a meeting in Moscow, prior to WW1, where the french and russian ministers met, and promised themselves how they would soon meet again, in Berlin, while drinking Champagne. Germany's fear was, and had been all the time, to get between two superpowers, and be forced to face a war at two fronts. Imho it was strategically and tactically (laying german expansionism ideas aside for now) the only possibility, to try to fight France on their own territory after their (France's!) declaration of war, and to win fast enough to then move all troops against Russia - which was numerically superior and well-prepared. It was astonishing for almost all participants, that Germany was able to fight this war for so long, and even win against Russia. But then it payed dearly for it.

 

The thing is that just the royal national leaders of all, of Russia and Germany (the Tsar and Kaiser William 2nd), did not really want a war. It was their general staff that explained at length that a war would be possible, and able to win. The tsar family was driven out of Russia (with William trying to help them get out alive), and William himself was then blamed (officially for the war, but inofficially for not having won it), and was forced to retire - with all those general staff idiots remaining in german high command, and politics - which was then a "nice" preparation of what was to come.

 

Greetings,

Catfish

Edited February 6, 2010 by Wels

[Hasse Wind 46]

 

 

The thing is that just the royal national leaders of all, of Russia and Germany (the Tsar and Kaiser William 2nd), did not really want a war. It was their general staff that explained at length that a war would be possible, and able to win. The tsar family was driven out of Russia (with William trying to help them get out alive), and William himself was then blamed (officially for the war, but inofficially for not having won it), and was forced to retire - with all those general staff idiots remaining in german high command, and politics - which was then a "nice" preparation of what was to come.

 

 

Yes, Wilhelm II has been unfairly blamed for a lot of things after the war. But the truth is he really didn't have much to say anymore in German affairs after the Hindenburg-Ludendorff duo took over the military and political leadership in the later half of the war. And then when all was lost, the generals washed their hands of the mess that was mostly of their own making and blamed the politicians who had the ungrateful task of trying to build a new republic out of the ashes of the 2nd Reich.

 

Interesting discussion, but maybe a bit off-topic for this thread.

[Wels 2]

Hello,

" ...Interesting discussion, but maybe a bit off-topic for this thread. ..."

 

Agreed, just my historically founded reason for having no problem in flying german planes

apart from just having fun flying all nations

 

Greetings,

Catfish

[Olham 164]

I understand that feeling much better than you may think, Flyby.

And it's a feeling, an emotional thing - and so can hardly be channeled elsewhere.

So don't worry - I also feel most content in my beloved Albatros.

Think, that's okay.

 

Edited February 6, 2010 by Olham

[Ras 0]

yeh i think you need help..lol...im am a ver prod brit,a true brit,rule brittania and all that,screw rest of johnny foreigners....eeeeexxxccept when flying in OFF...where through and through im a german and bloody well proud of it and cant wait to shoot the brits,however,i would let a brit live if i had choice of killing a franchman...however.i would let brits and french live,and chew of my own arms and legs,and crawl through no mans land naked and painted in a big bulls eye if for just a glimmer of chance to kill a yank..or even hit him with my stumps lol..x

 

xx V xx

 

 

I guess us "Yanks" best watch out what we say or we may be in trouble.

[Mr. Lucky 0]

I guess us "Yanks" best watch out what we say or we may be in trouble.

 

I get caught up emotionally too. Though being American (not Yank, I'm in the south), I usually feel better flying for Germany. Maybe it's the German lineage I have. However, it just got loads easier to fire up the ol' N28 and go looking for that moving, flesh colored target in no man's land.

[carrick58 23]

Here is my 2 cents. It doesnt really errik me as to which side I fly. However, I did find an un easy feeling creeps into the game when flying with Herman Goring and getting shot down. Seems the game does invoke emotions and thats what makes this game good.

[Von Paulus 8]

I usually prefer to fly by the British side because I read too much "Batller Briton" and too much "Dogfight Dixon" when I was a kid.

No prejudice here. Like Olham said, when someone read "Storm of Steel" by Ernest Jünger or any account written by the "other side" all we'll see, is the same humanity that we see in "our side". War brings the best and the worst in human kind.

[Bullethead 12]

I fly for whichever side is the underdog, in terms of numbers and/or airplane performance. Thus, I fly for both sides at different times, depending on how the balance stands then.

 

However, this has to be balanced against what's in the game. IMHO, the only part of the campaign that's "finished" is the Flanders area, and that only for 1917-1918. Earlier in time, there aren't but a few of the many types of planes then in use, even in Flanders. And the complete absence of French 2-seaters rules out both French and US careers, or German careers facing their parts of the front (most of its lenght).

 

So, Flanders 1917-1918. I fly for the King in the 1st half of 1917, in a Fee or Pup (I'd fly the DH2 if I could keep out of unrecoverable spins). The other planes aren't "underdog" enough for me. I used to avoid the 2nd half of 1917 but now I have the DH5 then. The 1st few months of 1918 are fun in an Albatros D.V or a Pfalz. During the Kaiserschlacht battles, I fly a Camel or SE5, sometimes a Brisfit. Then, in the last months of the war, I fly the D.VII. While this is arguable the best all-around plane in the game, it's SO outnumbered that staying alive any length of time is a huge challenge.

[Winston DoRight 3]

I am an American. In real life I have fought in two wars and worked for a third world government helping train their army. I'm proud of my country overall in spite of it's shortcomings. But I have always been fascinated by German machinery. At airshows, the Fokkers and Messerschmidts cast me under their spell at the first glance. In comparison with any other countries offerings the German machines were better built and more innovative, hands down. In the great wars if they had had many, many more of these machines we all would probably be speaking German right now.

 

I have no problem flying the axis side, or the French, just make up a good fantasy name for your pilot like Willy von Krautmeister, or Pierre Le Pew, even Nigel Crumpet gets me in the mood to fly for the "other" sides.

 

Oh, and BTW, I only purchase and drive German cars. They are made so much better just like their aircraft!

[Olham 164]

That reminds me to re-activate my French alter ego, Didier de St.Malo -

a rather short French name, compared to the ingame French aces with names like

"Jean Paul Erneste du Vin Rouge de la Grande Garage".

[Ironhat 0]

I too am American by birth. Born and raised in the deep South, at heart a Rebel who accepted around age 20 that our cause was wrong way back then. I served my country (not drafted) in the USAF, SAC, 8th AF, 389 Missile Wing as a supply officer in the mid 60's. I've lived in Alberta, Canada since 1966,that was only going to be about 2yrs, but economics rule so here we still are. Living here opened my eyes to the role played by the British and the Commonwealth countries in both WW wars.

 

I have always had an interest in military aircraft from all nations. In a game like OFF i am able to role play a character from any of the 4 nations. I do so with no hostility toward the other side but as a job am doing. I find flying the different approaches the sides took in designing and equiping their ac most interesting.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

I can't think of "the other side" at all. not in the way described in the original post. the "other side" is the one that's trying to kill you and survive.

 

to take the issue further, it's really hard for me to see World War One in black-and-white terms. yes, I KNOW about German atrocities. I KNOW how they bombed civilians. but the British and the French bombed German civilians too-- when the French started massive night-bombing raids there was no alternative BUT to kill civilians. the difference being that Allied propaganda was better and more easily remembered.

 

even "poor, innocent little Belgium" doesn't look that great when I consider their colonial history. look at Rwanda, Congo, and it's hard to be TOO sympathetic. Germany was evil enough to attack her neighbors. France, Great Britain, Belgium ALL had plenty of colonies that were obtained through military expansion. Germany was like that brash and obnoxious little brother who wanted to be better than his siblings.

 

for the record, I'm American-- my ethnic break down is something like 25% French 25% English and 50% Native American. (I've had friends joke "you must be secretly Canadian!")

 

and we can't really think of Germany as the only war-mongering state since the French general staff had submitted their own plans to attack Germany by invading through Belgium! the big difference being that the French government shot that idea down for being the political suicide that it was! can you imagine how different things would have been in the French had attacked first like some of the generals had wanted?

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I am quite a patriotic Brit as well...however..If I am flying an aeroplane with a Black Cross on it...anything with a Roundal is an enemy...and I will attack it.

 

I find it almost like 'Acting' or 'Role Playing'

 

When in a German Machine..I am (to all intents and purposes..A German Airman...shooting down allied fighters)....five minutes later..I can happily be in a Camel..blasting seven bells out of an Alb.

[Flyby PC 23]

Patriotism is dangerous. Not because it's wrong, but because it's so easy to manipulate.

 

I remember once renewing the mastic around a window, and some of the packing was an old newspaper. It's very common, in the old days they'd roll up paper to stuff in the gap and mastic over the top. It's like a mini time capsule, because logically, the date on the newspaper is give or take the time the work was done. Most of the time it's just rubbish, dog racing odds and such like, but now and again you get a snippet that's interesting.

 

This particular time, the paper was dated 1939, and had an article about our plucky friends in Finland giving the evil Soviets a bloody nose in their winter war. I don't recall what paper it was, maybe it wasn't even on the scrap I found, (they are never complete), but the article was very one sided and critical of the Russians. It wasn't as subtle as the modern day press, and you'd never think from reading it that 18 months later we'd be sending arms and weapons to help our brave Soviet allies in their struggles.

 

Is it Orwell's 1984 or Huxley's Brave New World that has Eastasia and Euroasia always at war? I'm sure it's 1984. Anyway, he was on the money. It struck me then how quickly our allegiences really do change when our Goverments want them to.

 

Before you ask, you can't really keep these bits of paper because you just get one read before the paper gives up the ghost and crumbles away to flakes. Earliest I've seen was 1911, but I don't recollect what it read, - the only thing of interest was the date. Be superb to find something really interesting some day....(that and a long lost hoard of gold and diamonds buried in a wall, deeds to a diamond mine, some long lost masterpiece......).

Edited February 6, 2010 by Flyby PC