Some Phantom questions

[UnknownPilot 33]

I've been trying to replace all the stock models with the MF ones, as well as get the early ones that are missing (such as the N).

 

To that end, I got the RAF J. How different is that from the USN J (in real life)? And what would it take to edit the RAF one into the USN one?

 

Is there any chance of the MF ever doing the B?

 

Speaking of the N, this one has proved a bit of a conundrum. The RAF J feels like a dog even compared to the stock J (in that it feels low on thrust and excessively heavy in turns), and the S Early isn't too much better than the RAF J (which is a surprise to me, as with the E's wing, I was expecting something more along the lines of the Kurnass). However.... the N is a hot-rod that smokes them all. I was noticing greying out occurring at around 300kts in the N (coming down from a higher speed, I grant you, but I'm just saying that it's handling is quite nice). It also feels like a Phantom ought to based on it's rep in the thrust department, seemingly having more get up and go than either the (RAF) J or the S.

 

I don't know enough about the real planes, so I'm just curious for information, as well as asking if maybe it's a fluke or something. Based on what I've read, the N uses the thin wing of the B, with it's leading edge flaps locked. On the surface of it, that sounds like it ought to have handling like that of the B, which is to say, worse than the J.

 

Also, both the MF RAF J and the MF N have their external tanks on in all 3 positions, even when you don't select them in the loadout (I am running SF2:V, I know there are some conversion issues, so if someone knows what I need to do I can edit the files :) ) - and they don't drop them either (when you trigger the DT release). The LEFs on the N also move with the main flaps. I don't know if it's a lot of work to modify that or not, just wanted to mention it.

 

 

Please understand this is NOT a complaint, nor am I questioning anybody's modding or FM tuning skills, just asking some questions and mentioning my observations. (and looking to learn)

 

[+daddyairplanes 10,216]

in regards to your J model all i did was to take the J out of SF2V , add a skin from the download section, and tweak the data ini so it would take brit as well as usn weapons.

in real life they were the exact same except for wiring to accept Skyflash and the paint job. the Brit Aircrews even had to use USN flying gear until a year before the J's were retired.

as for the N i havent gotten that to work yet in mine.

[Wrench 9,838]

I had no problems bringing the N over to SF2; ther's an 08 level version (iirc) in the D/L section I did a couple of years back. (although I think the chaff/flare eject positions are wrong)

 

HOWEVER....

 

it requires the use of the 1stGen F-4B lods (all of them) to make use of the skins. Mapping changes, doncha know. The S Early and S Late would probably require the same 'fix'; using 1stGen lods

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

edit: had to go find the link:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/files/file/8097-f-4n-phantom-ii-update-pak/

Edited March 29, 2010 by Wrench
added link to N upgrade pak

[+daddyairplanes 10,216]

early S works just fine in gen 2. as for my probs with the N, it don't help that i only had WOE in gen 1 tho no i know why i have the probs with it.

 

some more on r/l Phantoms.. the leading edge flaps inboard were fixed after Project BEELINE. outboard should still work. BEELINE converted B's into N's, J's into S's(for Slats!)

[Slartibartfast 153]

The F-4J in UK service was modified as little as possible to save money... basically Skyflash capability and that was about it... also they could carry and did the podded M-61 cannon SUU-23 I think...

[UnknownPilot 33]

early S works just fine in gen 2. as for my probs with the N, it don't help that i only had WOE in gen 1 tho no i know why i have the probs with it.

 

So far, simply installing the RAFJ, N, and S (early and late) all worked just fine with no edits. However, as I mentioned, they all have the triple drop tank loadout when you get on the runway, even when you don't select any tanks, and they don't drop off when you release them (in fact, if you select the gunpod, you see a drop tank that shoots lol).

 

The 3 Kurnass's I had to edit heavily to get them to work. The ones labeled (in game) as "Kurnass (Early) - TMF", and "Kurnass - TMF" both had to have their 'pit textures copied into the cockpit directory, then I had to relocate the pit to the proper position, but after that was done, they seemed happy (can't remember now if I did anything else for that or not). The 3rd one, which just says "Kurnass" in game (no "- TMF") had no 'pit and no 3D model. I had to copy LODs, and edit inis to get it to show up. Even then it was half sunk into the tarmac (ass down), but I did something to stop that, and don't even remember what it was, but then it was bouncing, so I dug into the KB and found the fix for that as well.

 

 

 

some more on r/l Phantoms.. the leading edge flaps inboard were fixed after Project BEELINE. outboard should still work. BEELINE converted B's into N's, J's into S's(for Slats!)

 

Interesting, I had read that Beeline was for B to N, and that J to S was likened to Beeline, but wasn't Beeline, and that the S used the E's slatted wing, but that the leading edge flaps (not slats) on the N were locked in place. The inboard part makes sense, though either way, on the MF N, the leading edge flaps (animated with the flap key) are not fixes at all, inboard or out.

 

So the RAF J is identical... hmm, that should make it easier. Though.... I have to say, it's the only time that I've seen an MF model be more sluggish and brick like than the stocker. I was hoping the RAF one was not as good as the actual USN one.

 

So what about the N then? This right now is my favorite one because it's an absolute beast. Great thrust, and good (not great, but good) handling. It feels like a heavy fighter, rather than a flying-brick-cum-bomber-interceptor. Should it really be so much better than the others?

[+Sundowner 4,818]

Any body else having that droptank issue ? I've not come across it myself. Also I didnt know the MF had released an N, do you mean M ?

[UnknownPilot 33]

Any body else having that droptank issue ? I've not come across it myself. Also I didnt know the MF had released an N, do you mean M ?

 

Nope, it's the N (USN and USMC).

 

http://www.column5.us/aircraft2.shtml

 

8th one down.

 

Looking back at it, I don't see either MF logo on it, so perhaps it's not actually MF? If so, my apologies, I was just thinking of all planes from C5's site as being MF (just varying levels, like Silver, Gold, etc).

[+Dave 2,322]

That F-4N was the first mod that C5 and I did together. It even got a mention in a flight sim magazine. She is still a good ship, you treat her right, she'll always bring you home.

[UnknownPilot 33]

That F-4N was the first mod that C5 and I did together. It even got a mention in a flight sim magazine. She is still a good ship, you treat her right, she'll always bring you home.

 

Indeed! Kick-ass fighter, and like I said, my new favorite (prior it was a tie betwen the stock J and the "Kurnass - TMF").

 

Starting from that as a basis, does that mean that the RAF J is undermodeled? Or vice versa though? Or.... am I just not understanding something (probable)?

 

Like I said, the RAF J is more sluggish (it seems) than the stock J, and the stock J is right around the N, maybe a bit less. I'm really hoping that the N is the water mark because I love that thing.

[Wrench 9,838]

just out of curiosity, what the DATE of the data ini for the RAF J? Methinks it might be pre-08 level, thereby missing out of some FM enhancements

 

wrench

kevin stein

[UnknownPilot 33]

just out of curiosity, what the DATE of the data ini for the RAF J? Methinks it might be pre-08 level, thereby missing out of some FM enhancements

 

wrench

kevin stein

 

 

Seems you are correct. I'm at work now, so unable to check the actual file itself, but looking at C5's site, it's listed as 3/15/03. However, the N is only 12/3/03, and the S 4/7/04 for the early model (which is the only S I've actually messed with so far).

[+Sundowner 4,818]

Are you using the RAF F-4's from C5's site?, if so they are way out of date, you need the new ones from here m8. All SF2 compatible .

[UnknownPilot 33]

Are you using the RAF F-4's from C5's site?, if so they are way out of date, you need the new ones from here m8. All SF2 compatible .

 

Hmm...

 

Looking here in the SF2 plane downloads, I'm seeing RAF/RN F-4K/M. Not J. Are they the same just different designations? Or are they different models? C5's site just says RAF F-4J.

 

Or have I missed the file somewhere? (I just looked at all the SF2 pages but it's possible I may have missed it)

[+Dave 2,322]

There is an F-4JUK in one of those packages. So you will be set.

[UnknownPilot 33]

Sweet! I just got it and tried it. I would never have seen it otherwise (I favor the earlier ones... at least at the moment anyway). Thank you!

 

It is exquisitely done as well. I'm going to work on making a copy that is USN.

 

What are the bumps on the sides of the intakes?

[UnknownPilot 33]

I got it working except for the skins. :(

 

I copied the directory, renamed it F-4J_TMF, then renamed all the ini files inside, edited the F-4J_TMF.ini file to reflect this, and the data ini file for dates, then I swapped the loadout and user list files, and all seems well. In the game it identifies as expected, the loadouts work, and the skin I copied in is selected.

 

But when I launch the mission, it shows up without a skin. Everything else works, including the pit and all it's graphics. But no external skin.

 

I made sure to name each of the .bmp files to match the plane's directory name (F-4J_TMF_1.bmp, etc). That's what I've done for other planes and other skins and they've worked. I'm stumped.

 

I even tried the 2048x2048 skin (after first having no luck with the 1024x1024). Anybody know what I need to do differently?

[Spinners 15,986]

On that 'Tiger' F-4J(UK) the distinctive small 'triangular' window on the frame between the cockpits is way too small compared to a real F-4. Is there a fix for that?

[+Sundowner 4,818]

The left side is faired over for the periscope fitting....is that what you're on about mate ?.

[Spinners 15,986]

The left side is faired over for the periscope fitting....is that what you're on about mate ?.

 

Yes, which neatly explains why I sometimes see it and why sometimes I don't.

[+Gocad 26]

I got it working except for the skins. :(

 

I copied the directory, renamed it F-4J_TMF, then renamed all the ini files inside, edited the F-4J_TMF.ini file to reflect this, and the data ini file for dates, then I swapped the loadout and user list files, and all seems well. In the game it identifies as expected, the loadouts work, and the skin I copied in is selected.

 

But when I launch the mission, it shows up without a skin. Everything else works, including the pit and all it's graphics. But no external skin.

 

I made sure to name each of the .bmp files to match the plane's directory name (F-4J_TMF_1.bmp, etc). That's what I've done for other planes and other skins and they've worked. I'm stumped.

 

I even tried the 2048x2048 skin (after first having no luck with the 1024x1024). Anybody know what I need to do differently?

 

The .BMP names are tied to the model you're using, DON'T rename them.

Edited March 30, 2010 by Gocad

[UnknownPilot 33]

Well, that did it. I did have to rename them, but, I had to keep the original name, despite the folder change.

 

Previously when adapting a skin to another plane version I've had to rename the files and that's where it confused me (as I thought it was related to the directory name). And here too, the VF-84 skin I was using was made for a model called F-4J, not F-4Juk. So, changing them to that is what solved it for me. Thanks.

 

 

Is there any chance of removing the reflector formation light thingies? As they remained despite the skin I'm guessing it's model based, but wanted to ask just in case. :)

Edited March 31, 2010 by UnknownPilot

[Spinners 15,986]

 

Is there any chance of removing the reflector formation light thingies?

 

Yes. It's quite a simple ini edit (adding a component and then removing). I'm not on my 'play' computer at the moment but the F-100A download gives a good example of the method.