chemtrails

[squid 21]

just a few questions for the moment. Is it normal for contrails to take many hours to dissapear from the sky ? Is it within contrail behavior characteristics that between two planes appearing form the ground to be almost the same size (so, probably on approximately same height?) only one produces contrails?

@ 0.40 . Is a small height separation enough to produce contrails to only one of two planes?

[macelena 1,070]

Perhaps just one was leaking CFC to widen the hole in the ozone layer

 

or there was a sudden change in temperature and humidity or the altitude was much different than what could be noticed first

[DWCAce 19]

Chemtrails don't exist. Contrails are made depending on the different atmospheric conditions, and can last anywhere from a few seconds to a few hours.

[squid 21]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8004881114646406827&q=8004881114646406827#

[squid 21]

fuel rejection?

[squid 21]

[DWCAce 19]

Squid, looks like those pics show both fuel venting, and the second one is probably a KC-135 dumping fuel via is boom.

[macelena 1,070]

If they only set the fuel on fire when dumping, like Aussies with their Aadvarks....

[squid 21]

afterafterburner ? :P

[FastCargo 412]

I'm going to squash this idiotcy right now.

 

1. Air is a fluid just like water. There are currents, hot and cold spots, eddy's etc. You could run through several layers horizontally and vertically, with just enough difference in temp/dew spread to cause contrails to appear and disappear from the same jet at the same alititude. You can have the exact same aircraft, changing a few thousand feet in altitude, leave very different contrails. Individual engines or different power settings cause cause differences in the amount of water vapor. Hell, you don't need engines to leave contrails at all...I can tell you of a time in a B-1B where I left huge contrails off the coast of Florida during William Tell. It was coming off the wings of our formation in huge sheets that looked thick enough to walk on. Or the time I left a couple of huge circular contrails in a T-38 while doing a supersonic high G run at 40k to 30k...looked back to see what looked like a giant 3d 'S'...because of the G I was pulling. All related to the same effect that causes those pretty transonic cones folks see.

 

2. Aircraft fuel dump in distress. Or they dump water for tests (such as icing tests), or they burn oil in the exhaust for airshows, or for evaluating airflows...there are about a billion ways an aircraft could have a trail behind it. Did you know a lot of larger aircraft have an APU in the tail? So if you fire it up, you leave an exhaust which has...guess what...water vapor which can be a different content ratio than a regular aircraft engine (actually, APUs are fairly inefficent anyway)...so, yes Virginia, you can con from an APU yet not from the engines ON THE SAME AIRCRAFT.

 

3. Now, lets talk about distances, shall we? I hear this every once in a while that somehow someone knows that aircraft are at the same altitude because they are very close in size. Not necessarily. Here's a nice math exercise you can do to figure out why seeing is not believing. It's the same exercise I use to explain to new pilots why the WORST way to rejoin on another aircraft is to head directly at it.

 

A) Break out your geometry and trig skills, you're going to need them. First, pick an object of a fixed size...or use an arbitrary length (lets say 200 feet).

B) Set that object at a fixed distance from your eye (lets start at 30000 feet).

C) Assuming the end points of your object are perpendicular to your eye, note that it forms a nice triangle that can be divided lengthwise to form 2 identical right triangles.

D) We can now figure out the angle of arc the object takes up in our field of vision using the inverse tangent function (for our example, about 22.9 minutes of arc). Here, I'll even provide the formula:

X = (minutes per degree of arc) x (2) x (inverse tan ((length of object / 2)/distance of object) = 60 x 2 x atan((Y/2)/Z). If you draw it out, you'll see exactly what I'm showing here.

E) Now, start adjusting the distance parameter and recalculate. Take all your results and chart them on a graph. Note the interesting thing...the graph is not a linear curve. In fact, it stays pretty flat until near the end. Which means that when objects are far away, estimating relative distance becomes more and more difficult.

F) The accepted number is that an average human can note change with approximately 2 minutes of viewing arc change. This assumes a clear, high contrast situation with a non-moving target (ie the target is not sweeping across your field of view) at maximum eye resolution. You start throwing other varibles (multiple targets, sideways vectors, contrast/brightness changes) and the threshold to note a change only goes up. Heck, looking at our math...you can't even tell the distance change until the target has changed altitude by at least 2000 feet. And did I happen to mention this becomes progressively more difficult the smaller the target is?

 

4. I hear a lot about a global chemtrail conspiracy. Yet, not one reliable person has ever come forward anywhere and said, "Yes, I was a part of it." In the history of real conspiracies, in almost every case, it only took one person to bring the whole thing crashing down. And this was before the age of the 24/7 information access and ubiqitous cameras. And yet, out of the literally hundreds of thousands of people that would be needed to actually do such a thing, not one reliable person has ever been found? In this day of governments with more leaks than a colander?

 

5. Oh, and as a commerical and military pilot myself, I have to ask...exactly what would be my motivation to have this crap sprayed on my head? My families' head? Somehow, every single person involved would have to be coerced into doing such a thing and NOT ONE PERSON would say "Enough is enough?". Men who have been through hell and back and not one would say "I risk falling on my sword because it is the right thing?" Please.

 

So, put away your tinfoil hats, the black helocopter you hear is actually your neighbors' lawn mower, and I'm pretty sure the only mind control is from the 'Entertainment' part of your TV.

 

FC

[DWCAce 19]

Right on!

[+Erik 1,812]

FC I don't think you accounted for the refraction angle of light through a liquid medium and you didn't explain why UFOs don't leave condensation. Your explanation was excellent and your reference to tin foil hats is an amusing riot.

[+Dave 2,322]

I have tin foil underwear.....

[ezlead 42]

Great explanation,FC.

I would also mention that depending on the situation: if one wanted to be seen or not in a combat situation. One would adjust altitude or airspeed or throttle setting so that they were 'connin' or not.

[serverandenforcer 33]

A) Break out your geometry and trig skills, you're going to need them. First, pick an object of a fixed size...or use an arbitrary length (lets say 200 feet).

B) Set that object at a fixed distance from your eye (lets start at 30000 feet).

C) Assuming the end points of your object are perpendicular to your eye, note that it forms a nice triangle that can be divided lengthwise to form 2 identical right triangles.

D) We can now figure out the angle of arc the object takes up in our field of vision using the inverse tangent function (for our example, about 22.9 minutes of arc). Here, I'll even provide the formula:

X = (minutes per degree of arc) x (2) x (inverse tan ((length of object / 2)/distance of object) = 60 x 2 x atan((Y/2)/Z). If you draw it out, you'll see exactly what I'm showing here.

E) Now, start adjusting the distance parameter and recalculate. Take all your results and chart them on a graph. Note the interesting thing...the graph is not a linear curve. In fact, it stays pretty flat until near the end. Which means that when objects are far away, estimating relative distance becomes more and more difficult.

F) The accepted number is that an average human can note change with approximately 2 minutes of viewing arc change. This assumes a clear, high contrast situation with a non-moving target (ie the target is not sweeping across your field of view) at maximum eye resolution. You start throwing other varibles (multiple targets, sideways vectors, contrast/brightness changes) and the threshold to note a change only goes up. Heck, looking at our math...you can't even tell the distance change until the target has changed altitude by at least 2000 feet. And did I happen to mention this becomes progressively more difficult the smaller the target is?

 

I hate math....

 

But if they're spraying rogain up there, I don't mind. Baldness runs in my family a bit. So I appreciate any assistance that can be offered to combat that trait.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Come and get em fellas/fellattes, only here, at THE COMBATACE

 

download NOW ~> http://forum.combatace.com/files/file/7046-siberian-sky-contrails-for-strategic-air-warfare/

 

 

 

 

 

 

squid::

Is it normal for contrails to take many hours to dissapear from the sky?

Only when the conditions are right for it, most notably at the approach of a warm front during winter. The contrails grow to become cirrus clouds, which we know can last for hours in the sky.

 

Is it within contrail behavior characteristics that between two planes appearing from the ground to be almost the same size (so, probably on approximately same height?) only one produces contrails?

Not much altitude difference (or horizontal distance) is needed at times for very different contrail behavior, and you can be tricked by eye comparisons of distance in 3D. About being tricked: That video showed a chem/con trail and a "dark line." I don't know what they said since I don't have sound on my somputer (I JAM stereo), but the dark line is contrail shadow on a lower thin transparent cloud layer. I wish combat flight TheSims developers would start paying attention to this type of thing.

 

 

Those hour long contrails days are cited as causing global warming by the global warming types, so pick your conspiracy. If you actually started to watch the sky for days and years like I did growing up in Miss-iP where there is nothing else to do but get paddled in the rural schools, you see that hour long contrail days are about once or twice a month, which is not enough to cause global warming.

 

btw...that plane with oily looking trails is just water vapour, including the sheen coming from the wings, heavily enhanced to produce an oily look. That photo is popular on forums among not just fans of chemtrail poisoning, but also the Global Warming fans, and they DO NOT mix with the chemtrail poisoning fans.

 

 

All that said, I love browsing chemtrail websites because they can be a great source of some of the most surreal persistent contrail photos.

[squid 21]

I have tin foil underwear.....

 

:lol: :lol:

 

 

I hate math....

 

But if they're spraying rogain up there, I don't mind. Baldness runs in my family a bit. So I appreciate any assistance that can be offered to combat that trait.

 

 

spraying Rogain :lol: :lol: :laugh:

Edited June 1, 2010 by squid

[squid 21]

Come and get em fellas/fellattes, only here, at THE COMBATACE

 

download NOW ~> http://forum.combatace.com/files/file/7046-siberian-sky-contrails-for-strategic-air-warfare/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

squid::

Only when the conditions are right for it, most notably at the approach of a warm front during winter. The contrails grow to become cirrus clouds, which we know can last for hours in the sky.

 

 

Not much altitude difference (or horizontal distance) is needed at times for very different contrail behavior, and you can be tricked by eye comparisons of distance in 3D. About being tricked: That video showed a chem/con trail and a "dark line." I don't know what they said since I don't have sound on my somputer (I JAM stereo), but the dark line is contrail shadow on a lower thin transparent cloud layer. I wish combat flight TheSims developers would start paying attention to this type of thing.

 

 

Those hour long contrails days are cited as causing global warming by the global warming types, so pick your conspiracy. If you actually started to watch the sky for days and years like I did growing up in Miss-iP where there is nothing else to do but get paddled in the rural schools, you see that hour long contrail days are about once or twice a month, which is not enough to cause global warming.

 

btw...that plane with oily looking trails is just water vapour, including the sheen coming from the wings, heavily enhanced to produce an oily look. That photo is popular on forums among not just fans of chemtrail poisoning, but also the Global Warming fans, and they DO NOT mix with the chemtrail poisoning fans.

 

 

All that said, I love browsing chemtrail websites because they can be a great source of some of the most surreal persistent contrail photos.

 

 

lol Lex was the exact person i had in mind making this post :D i have been hearing for chemtrails for ages now and never bothered to ask for knowledgeable peoples input, as expected great input here.

 

I should add maybe that, especially with tele lens pictures, about the visual distance and size estimation, sizes and distances "compress" in an "axonometric" way reducing the traditional appearance of 3D perspective. In practical every day words, what been said above equals that the longer the distance the more close to eachother two separated objects appear and the visual impression of distances and sizes "flattens" . I am not sure, someone correct me, i think human eye has some minimal "zoom" capabilities maybe depending where the eye tries to focus, but for sure in pictures where the camera zooms (tele) to catch distant aircraft there are always the telephoto "flattening distortion" effects

 

Its summer here in Greece now although temps are mild and its rather rainy these days, i am noticing that contrails take hours to break up

Edited June 1, 2010 by squid

[+Gunrunner 314]

Nice one FC, do you expect us to believe you ? We KNOW you are part of the conspiracy, you are with the NWO to get rid of 93% of the world population and keep the rest as cattle for your alien reptile masters under the Pentagon and the greys in Area 51 !

 

Hey, wait, getting rid of 93% of the population, can I join in ?

 

What's amazing is that those conspirationnists fail to apply Occam's Razor.

Between two explanations :

1) This is a huge, international, complex conspiration spanning decades and somehow no-one blew the whistle and I'm one of the only people to realise what's going on.

2) This is perfectly normal and I just lack the basis in physics, chemistry and logic to understand it, so I'd better learn or shut up rather than blabber about things I know nothing about.

Which is the simplest and most likely ?

 

Yet, they invariably chose the first, go figure...

[+Julhelm 266]

Squid, don't trust these military men. Being part of the government they're obviously in on the conspiracy and are trying to feed you disinformation. Especially that Fastcargo guy. You can bet he's laughing all the way back to Area 51.

 

 

 

 

 

Right?

[squid 21]

jeee , yes, especially since he is an actual pilot

[+Julhelm 266]

Oh and we can't have a chemtrail conspiracy thread without some lunacy courtesy of Alex Jones:

 

[macelena 1,070]

Yeah, Fast Cargo is evil for sure. He flies a black T-38 with Blood Red writing.

 

Edited June 1, 2010 by macelena

[DWCAce 19]

You all have it wrong, FC is based out of Area 52 1/3.

[+Gunrunner 314]

Oooh, that 1 and a third more secret and sinister !