I Don't Know Anymore Which is the Best WWI Sim!

[33LIMA 972]

Back on topic, I have and fly all 3 of the current commercial WW1 flight sims and each is best in some respects. OFF has supreme scope & depth out of the box, more so with the HiTR expansion, tho it still has some CFS3 legacy issues like AI flying at unladen weight and poor formauion-keeping. RoF excels at recreating the feeling of flying and dogfighting in WW1 planes; tho it won't have an adequate 2-seater planeset for 1917-18 till the RE8 arrives and has no early 2-seaters at all despite its many early scouts, it's still worth having for hat it does well. First Eagles Gold/FE2 outgrew the 'sim-lite' label long ago, after the early TW patches; it excells at reproducing the patrol-leading and dogfighting experience, key elements for a WW1 sim, thanks to an adequate planeset, very good AI and good plane visibility without any visual aids FEG/FE2 also has clever implementation of squadron and individual markings and a sound SP campaign and single-mission system; plus all the mod community content, which gives it much the biggest planeset.and extra campaigns to take advantage of it. Enough to put FEG/FE2 ahead overall, in my experience,tho I like all three for what they do best.

Edited September 10, 2011 by 33LIMA

[+ojcar 157]

First Eagles for me. The other are very good too, but FE has two critical factors above the others:

 

-Moddability: You can make yourself any campaign/mission/map/plane/etc you want, as accurate or arcade you want. You can fly as Russian, Romanian, Austro-Hungarian, Italian or Turkish if you want. There are Italian campaigns, Palestinian maps, Russian planes... Freedom is the key here!.

 

-An AI much better than any of the others, hands down. The AI from ROF is a joke. The two seaters have "Lee Harvey Oswald" gunners that blow entire fighter squadrons out of the sky and the fighters only tactic is turn, turn, turn. So you only have to turn inside if your plane is more maneouverable, or make yo-yos or rolling scissors if you are flying a less maneouverable plane. Boooring! I don't have OFF (and maybe I'll try it, because the campaign), but its CFS3 heritage.....so I don't think the AI is gonna be very good (maybe I'm not right there). FE AI is very, very good and you can customize is for every plane, so you'll need different tacticcs to fight against each plane (and AI level).

[Tamper 9]

Back on topic...

 

Back on topic, indeed...

 

I own two licenses for RoF (long story...) and OFF P3+HITR. I briefly tried FE but - although I gather it's the mods that make this a great sim, I am not the sort interested in having to mod, patch and otherwise cajole a game into being what it can/should. That being said, I did notice FE seemed to have very good graphics and played well, 'out of the box' as it were. I would strongly recommend it as the premier choice, cost-for-cost. Cost is always a factor :)

 

Back when this poll first started, I voted in favor of OFF, because at that time it appealed to me more. I was already running RoF, and although it was impressive, it lacked then what it still does - the depth of immersion in terms of the overall WW1 combat flight sim experience that OFF delivers. The 'world' in RoF seems sterile and largely unoccupied, for a place/time when there's a war going on.

 

RoF's highly touted DM isn't that much better than anything else I've played. More complex - sure...but better? Not to me. There are some nice touches, but there are still glitches aplenty (planes continuing to fly though missing crucial structural components, damage modeling catastrophic failures too late/prematurely, etc). The FM; again, highly touted, but it's well known throughout the community - even among some of RoF's biggest fans - that there are issues here, as well (roll and climb rates inaccurate on several planes, etc).

 

The graphics used to be, even for my admittedly high standards, where RoF glowed. And did it ever. It still has excellent graphics overall, of course, but with the past few 'updates' the Developer has inadvertently created stuttering, hitching, whatever you wish to call it. And, it's not just one type of card (some Nvidia users, myself included, have noted the same issues many ATI users have). Nor is it strictly related to multi-GPU arrangements. (And it's not my hardware either, for God's sake...I get *so* tired of that excuse...)

 

Now, RoF has released the career mode. It is well done, and undoubtedly adds dimension where it was sorely lacking before. And they've reduced the online requirement (though it still is not truly eliminated, no matter what you might hear). The entire game is now available as a downloadable, time-unlimited demo - a fantastic idea, long overdue...but, regretfully, more about trying to generate sales than anything. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you, but it's just not been done strictly in the interest of the community, that much is obvious.

 

Meanwhile, OFF is as good as it ever was, and continues to deliver a solid experience. Perhaps not the newest engine (it's not that bad, though), or best graphics (which are very good, and I think the terrain is better than RoF). But still far and away a more rounded experience...bigger planeset, more flyables, historical accuracy...if they'd fix the stupid clouds and a few other smallish issues, it would be near perfect, IMHO.

 

The way I tell, between RoF and OFF, is to ask myself a basic question: What more could you ask for? In RoF, there's still quite a landry list..in OFF, that list is much smaller. One thing OFF may never have that RoF does is the graphics - but P4 is due and there are some impressive screen shots already.

 

So, for me - after more than a year - I'd still say it's OFF, even with RoF's much-proclaimed 'continual updates' (which, of late, seem to be breaking a lot, even as they're fixing other stuff). Which is another point of contention with RoF for me: Forced updates. I'd really like to put my current install back to pre-1.019. But you really aren't given much of a choice with RoF.

 

Guess we'll see what it's like in another year.

[JediMaster 451]

Well, OFF is a mod of CFS3, so...

 

 

[33LIMA 972]

Back on topic, indeed...

 

I own two licenses for RoF (long story...) and OFF P3+HITR. I briefly tried FE but - although I gather it's the mods that make this a great sim, I am not the sort interested in having to mod, patch and otherwise cajole a game into being what it can/should. That being said, I did notice FE seemed to have very good graphics and played well, 'out of the box' as it were. I would strongly recommend it as the premier choice, cost-for-cost. Cost is always a factor :)

 

Back when this poll first started, I voted in favor of OFF, because at that time it appealed to me more. I was already running RoF, and although it was impressive, it lacked then what it still does - the depth of immersion in terms of the overall WW1 combat flight sim experience that OFF delivers. The 'world' in RoF seems sterile and largely unoccupied, for a place/time when there's a war going on.

 

RoF's highly touted DM isn't that much better than anything else I've played. More complex - sure...but better? Not to me. There are some nice touches, but there are still glitches aplenty (planes continuing to fly though missing crucial structural components, damage modeling catastrophic failures too late/prematurely, etc). The FM; again, highly touted, but it's well known throughout the community - even among some of RoF's biggest fans - that there are issues here, as well (roll and climb rates inaccurate on several planes, etc).

 

The graphics used to be, even for my admittedly high standards, where RoF glowed. And did it ever. It still has excellent graphics overall, of course, but with the past few 'updates' the Developer has inadvertently created stuttering, hitching, whatever you wish to call it. And, it's not just one type of card (some Nvidia users, myself included, have noted the same issues many ATI users have). Nor is it strictly related to multi-GPU arrangements. (And it's not my hardware either, for God's sake...I get *so* tired of that excuse...)

 

Now, RoF has released the career mode. It is well done, and undoubtedly adds dimension where it was sorely lacking before. And they've reduced the online requirement (though it still is not truly eliminated, no matter what you might hear). The entire game is now available as a downloadable, time-unlimited demo - a fantastic idea, long overdue...but, regretfully, more about trying to generate sales than anything. Not that there's anything wrong with that, mind you, but it's just not been done strictly in the interest of the community, that much is obvious.

 

Meanwhile, OFF is as good as it ever was, and continues to deliver a solid experience. Perhaps not the newest engine (it's not that bad, though), or best graphics (which are very good, and I think the terrain is better than RoF). But still far and away a more rounded experience...bigger planeset, more flyables, historical accuracy...if they'd fix the stupid clouds and a few other smallish issues, it would be near perfect, IMHO.

 

The way I tell, between RoF and OFF, is to ask myself a basic question: What more could you ask for? In RoF, there's still quite a landry list..in OFF, that list is much smaller. One thing OFF may never have that RoF does is the graphics - but P4 is due and there are some impressive screen shots already.

 

So, for me - after more than a year - I'd still say it's OFF, even with RoF's much-proclaimed 'continual updates' (which, of late, seem to be breaking a lot, even as they're fixing other stuff). Which is another point of contention with RoF for me: Forced updates. I'd really like to put my current install back to pre-1.019. But you really aren't given much of a choice with RoF.

 

Guess we'll see what it's like in another year.

 

Good, well-balanced assessment there, Tamper.

 

Would differ in some respects eg sure, OFF is 'more complete' than RoF (or FE) in some respects (like the (integrated) planeset and the scale of air operations), but it has gaps of its own, generally CFS3 'legacy' issues like the 'unladen weight' uber AI (reportedly being fixed in P4), very poor AI formation-keeping, indifferent aircraft visibility without using aids (FE is significantly better, and RoF's aids are more subtly implemented), an improved but still pretty dire map, a too-limited ability to handle forced landings without ending in the plane rolling over and wrecking fatally and (to me anyway) some unduly-sluggish flight models (perhaps more an effect of the 'unladen' AI planes than anything else). To me it's much more important P4 adequately improves these remaining CFS3 issues, rather than adding more planes and improving graphics. I enjoy the OFF environments and flying the 2-seaters (except the BE with its disappointingly-unrealistic armament) but its dogfighting I find too often ends in frustration, and for that aspect - my main interest in WW1 - I turn to FEG/FE2 or RoF.

 

Also I think First Eagles shines with or without the mods - yes, it was well behind the curve on initial release with only 3 flyables, equally few AI-only planes, and indifferent AI, DM and FM; but all these areas were vastly improved with FE Gold/Expansion Pack and this continued in FE2, which loses seasonal terrain but adds some improvements of its own like 'persistent' plane wreck graphics and longer view distances.

 

Yes the RoF career mode when it finally came is still a very small-scale affair with little happening and some predictability; but the flying and dogfigthing (as with FE) I find really exhilirating and with the arrival soon of the RE8 it'll finally have a decent later-war planeset and hopefully, slightly more busy skies.

Edited September 18, 2011 by 33LIMA

[Tamper 9]

Hi 33,

 

I'm glad you mentioned areas (in each sim) that I didn't. I think many of us focus on areas that are most important to us, while overlooking some other equally crucial aspects - and it's good to have more than one set of 'eyes' doing the assessments. I'm admittedly more likely to pay attention to graphics, and although I'm normally not a FM/DM accuracy freak, some of the limitations we're discussing seem to actually be hurting my (already meager) abilities as a pilot. You've obviously noted AI behavior more carefully than I have, and quite honestly AI is at least one area I couldn't offer any meaningful critique of. (The AI has killed me enough that I can't say they're ineffective; yet they make some really bad mistakes so I can't say they're super-human, either).

 

Another example of how I'm more focused on certain things concerns the graphics in OFF. I think you're spot on, the best things they can do for OFF is continue to overcome as many CFS3 issues as possible. And, overall, the graphics are very good. But I have to honestly say - in another simplified version of how I see things - if OFF had RoF's graphics capabilities, I personally would be completely happy with it. And, to be more specific, the only things that 'bother' me about OFF are the clouds popping/jumping and appearing as 2D 'sheets, rather than the boundless volumes of gaseous vapor they are. (This is me quibbling, more than anything). The clouds also get an almost 'letterboxed' effect if you zoom your view out, and it just destroys the otherwise very convincing experience for me...I do find most everything else to be very good, especially the terrain/scenery. (Although, again, it's dated even if very good, and RoF has taken advantage of more current technology to really shine graphically). Like you, I think the planeset is probably enough as is that they should focus on other areas.

 

I know I need to have a closer look at FE...I have the Gold version, but I should consider FE2. I'm actually glad to hear that the mods aren't necessary (again, my knowledge here is very limited). (*sigh* Too many projects and not enough time!) I was actually there on the download page just the other day, and was once again reminded of what a quality offering it is, for the cost. I decided to hold off, for no other reason than I simply don't have time to take on yet another sim right now.

 

RoF does deliver a certain thrill in dogfights, I would absolutely agree there. The graphics are still remarkable which appeals to me and adds immersion during the actual flight and combat moments (I just really - really - wish they hadn't made such a mess in the recent patches). I do actually recommend it to others, but it seems like (cost-for-cost) I always feel I have to offer more caveats with RoF than perhaps with OFF or FE.

 

I suppose I should be grateful to have the choices we do, and I do continue to look forward to future improvements in all these products.

 

Nice to hear more from you here. I am always interested in these sorts of (mostly) objective discussions, and they are regretfully rare IMHO.

[33LIMA 972]

Yeah it's good to talk, except when adherents (I won't say 'fanboys') of this or that sim get defensive/agressive at any whiff of criticism, which is fortunately rare here at CombatAce.

 

Given its unequalled comprehensiveness, I would probably have been very happy with (or resigned to?) OFF's dogfighting and flight leading experience and would have put any frustrations down to my own preferences/failings/lack of TrackIR/lack of rudder pedals etc...except having 'rediscovered' FE earlier this year and spent the time to get familiar with it and tweak it to suit my tastes, I just found it significantly better in those important respects, despite some limitations in other, to me less important areas. To my mind anyway; as you say, each to their own. If P4 tackles most or all of the remaining CFS3 legacy issues it'll really leave very little to be desired, especially with the additional 2-seaters which will be particularly welcome additions. But they do need to tackle some of those other issues too, not just add planes/improve graphics.

 

Either way, I'm still waiting for a true successor to RB3d. It had weaknesses of its own to be sure, but the comprehensive representation of the air war, the planeset (especially with the 'UOP' mods and/or Campaign Manager) and that magical campaign system, complete with squadron scoreboard, decent pilot logbook and the event cutscenes (loved the POW escape!), have yet to be bettered. OFF probably comes closest to claiming the RB3d crown and would win hands-down IMHO but for those CFS3 legacy issues. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for P4. I'm optimistic that the very welcome solution to the lightweight AI, which really spoiled air-to-air for me in CFS3 (and is rather more important in a WW1 air war sim than in a WW2 tac air one) will tip the scales as regards the OFF dogfighting experience. In the meantime am happy to enjoy all three sims for what I find each one best at.

[shredward 12]

First Eagles is the best (gold edition).

Developers like Rabu (OFF) are promoting their work (and money) and his opinion should not be taken seriously.

I'm not a developer, i'm just a gamer and i can say that First Eagles is the best choice of the last years. Lots of new planes to downlaod, some are really incredible like the Morane Saulnier Type N or the Ansaldo SV5a or the Nieuport 12 (ROF demands a ultra high computer and OFF uses the worst engine ever (CFS3))

 

Do your homework before you start slinging mud mister.

Rabu withdrew from OFF years ago, and now devotes much of his time to helping one of the other sims. He is a very long-standing member and builder of the Great War avsim community, having worked on many many sims and mods, all the way back to RB, and anything he says is to be taken seriously, even if the post is more than a year old. You, on the other hand, are dangerously close to earning yourself another official warning.

shredword

[+quack74 329]

Just to put my two cents in, They are all very cool WWI sims. But, they all have different qualities that make them good. There isnt one that stands above the rest. I think if you put them all together then that would be perfect. There is no sence in trash talking any developer or modeler. They do what they can do. They dont mess things up on purpose. And if they have a business to run then budget is a major issue. I cant even begin to comprehend how long in takes to develope code and programs and 3D models for one sim. the research alone would drive me crazy let alone stare at a computer screen all day looking at code. Give all these developers credit. They all try really hard and spend lots of money and time doing so so you can have a $30 flight sim of an era thats just not that popular. Not too many people like flying around at 75mph shooting a small machine gun that jams a lot. I can criticize each WWI sim that I have. I favor First Eagle 2 because of the mod ability and number of aircraft and ground objects available ( for free ). Granted it too me years to figure it all out. But never the less it's like a hobby now and I love it. But on the downside Thirdwire will no longer support FE because of budget restrictions. Like I said, WWI is not a real money maker. OFF is lots of fun and has great game play, graphics, sounds, mission building qualities. But it is a very old engine and cant be upgraded. The graphics and 3D models look dated. But it is still fun to play. It also has a big following. Rise of Flight for me is incredible when it comes to graphics and models. The terrain is active and they skies are beautiful. But, The single missions are boring and you cant select any different skins for your flight. If you are the red baron in his Fokker Dr.I then so is every other Dr.I. I know there are ways around it. And for any of you who use ROF and have downloaded all their add-on planes, do the math! Holy cow! You will end up spending a couple hundred dollars on a flight sim for all the upgrades. Thats just insane! I downloaded a bunch of planes in one sitting and realized I had just spent well over $100 for WWI planes. Very dumb. I wont be doing that agian! I have all those planes and more in FE. And I do my own skin work to make them look better. And I share them with the FE crowed. So they are all great and they are all lacking. I do have the three main WWI sims that are out there and I do play them time to time. But there just isnt enough time in the day or in life to master any of them. So just pick one and roll with it like I did. Make it your own.

Stop bad mouthing the developers and modelers. They do their best. Remember it all cost money and time.

[JediMaster 451]

Some people have spent a LOT more on MSFS stuff over the years than you could ever hope to in ROF!

[+quack74 329]

Yeah but that covers just about every genre of aviation. Much bigger fan base. I cant even emagine the cash that MS has brought in from it's Flight Sims over the years. I still have Combat Flight Sim 1. Wow have they, and others, come a long way.

[sixstrings 111]

I'm new to this site but been a member of SOH since the begining. Have 6 different installs of CFS3,bothPTO's,MAW,Korea,ETO, Battle of Britian,ECT...   Just now getting into WWI sims now that my upgrated XP rig can handle a few of them,hopfuly.I'm looking by this upcoming fall,(when i save enough money), to build a all out gaming rig to handle anything now and in the future for @$1300. Building a PC yourself is easier than i thought ,and save a ton of money,with help online, useing this website : http://www.build-gaming-computers.com/ I have OFF H&H and will give it a try ,also FE sounds interesting. I sure don't like all the nit picing about CFS3 . With all the the aircraft,and tons of mods and upgrating/theaters of operation,AI's ,and accurate flight modeling,and more .It's a great sim(if you likeWWII stuff ,Il2 series included too).I'm so glad we have so much to choose from as the combat sim market has gotten smaller due to the popularity of first person shooter games. I love the WWII sims but also like the jet fighter sims also like LocOn and others. WWI history intrest me also and i plan to learn all i can here and elsewhere,in between the time of buiding my new rig . Thanks for the suggestions i found here.Will end up buying most ,if not all, of the WWI sims any way for they all have good features and some if not most are a work/upgrade in progess. Just can't wait to get my new rig to handle them at max settings!!! Thanks guys for the advice...

Edited March 25, 2015 by sixstrings

[sixstrings 111]

Don't know what happed to my post above,it deleted most of my reply. All i mean to say is for now is please stop bashing CFS3. With all the a/c ,ai,theaters of operation,and tons of missions and mods it a totally different simm.Love the Il2 series too and have all except CoD BoS. I do have OFF part 1 and 2 and will give them a try now and  FE sounds great too.Should be about fall when i'll build my new gaming computer,then it will handle any combat flight simm at max settings.Looks like i'll get all the WWI sims out there as most,if not all,are being upgraded,and improved all the time.Thanks guys for the advice. The site for help in building your own gaming rig was incorrect above,this is it. ;       http://www.build-gaming-computers.com/             Hope this helps someone as it can save you a ton of money with better and researched parts that work together.I plan on learning here and elsewhere as most as i can about WWI and the different sims of the time period.

Edited March 25, 2015 by sixstrings

[sixstrings 111]

The link i gave above is still incorrect , but it will still get you to correct site with the right web address.I don't know why this keeps happening when i post .So heres one last try.                            http://www.build-gaming-computers.com/  

[sixstrings 111]

I'm totally new to WW1 sims and after reading all the posts on this i'm more confused than ever!! For my experiance has been with CFS-1 thru 3 and all the mods,aircraft,missions,theaters of operation and much more availible,along with Il-2 series up to 1946. Along with several jet fighter sims has kept me away from the WW1 sims. What would be a (FUN) WW1 sim that is also accurate and offers the ability to be modded with missions ,good AI's,aircraft and decent graphics that my ole' trusty XP rig can handle. I know that leaves out FE-2 and OFF3 , but that will fixed when i build my new Windows 7 gamming rig a few months down the road. Is there any beside FE-1 that i can play ie.OFF1 or OFF2, (on my maxed out XP 32bit rig) ? Is there any WW1 sim i'm leaving out or don't know of that i should consider playing ? Really considering FE1 Gold Pack .Is there many mods, aircraft and more availible for it ? That's what i love about CFS3 and Il-2. It's not just WW1 sims that are hurting but all combat flight sims,as shooter games seem to be the latest rage. I'm truly thankful we still have a few choices out there. Also what about Canvas Knights,is it any good ? Thanks for any advice.

Edited March 26, 2015 by sixstrings

[RIBob 39]

Interesting thread, and worth resurrecting.  I would be very interested in current opinions, assuming that the newer games have been modified since the previous posts, not to mention some of the older sims.

Would former posters like to "revise and extend" their previous comments? 

One thing I appreciate about any flight sim is the ability to do a quick "instant combat" sort of mission, although being able to choose certain aspects of the mission is of value, IMHO.  There are times when a long, detailed set-up is not wanted, so a more-or-less simplified quick combat selection is useful, at least to me.

I am gradually coming to the realization that WW I flight sims just might suit me best, so further, informed, responses to this threat are of importance to me.

 

[33LIMA 972]

Since my original post I have played WoFF extensively and as my review here reported, found it excellent and much, much improved over OFF (eg formation-keeping is now ok), not least since Ankor's shaders give it the dynamic shadows that FE/FE2 always had, plus the ability to adjust the awful 'wide angle lens' external view. It still has niggles - for example too many uneventful flights, no 'next encounter' fast-forward, AA fire not as common as it should be, 2-seaters operating always in flights of c.5 and rarely if ever alone (WoFF UE may have improved that), I have not grown to like the flight models, the AI tend to run straight for home a lot, and AI-led flights seem to potter about at low level for ages. The view system is still essentially the poor CFS3 system which compares badly with FE/FE2 or RoF. WoFF's 'quick combat' mission generator is much the best of the bunch (tho there is a mission generator for FE/FE2 that apparently works like IL-2 '46's highly-featured quick mission builder -

With Pat Wilson's Campaign Generator, the Rise of Flight SP campaign experience I find much better. The planeset is now good from about late Spring 1917 with the addition of the RE8 and the Strutter, but despite now having also the FE2 (the plane not the sim!!!) Rise of Flight has hopeless gaps before that (no BE2, no 1916-17 French 2-seater). AI and representation of flak isn't great but I can live with it. It's free with two flyables and the rest AI, so is absolutely worth giving a good work-out.

RB3D (modded) I think I still have installed but would only play it for a short bit of nostalgia, and to see how well it did the things that other sims leave out or don't do so well.

With all the available modder-built planes available for your favoured theatre or theatres - including those from the A Team Skunkworks, with whom patience and respect of their rules is important -  FE/FE2 is still hard to beat. The planeset leaves almost nothing to be desired for nearly all of the air war. There are different parts of the Western Front plus several other theatres, including the North Sea for seaplanes, and Italy. You can use the campaign system to generate quick missions with a bit of context, like your squadron and its roster and record. The aircrew animation is vastly better than WoFF and in most respects better than RoF. Capt Vengeur's medal mod means I am continually surprised by the variety of awards I can earn from German principalities, if I manage to keep body and soul together and the aerial victories coming in. As with the other sim there are niggles, like FE2 campaign weather not changing unless edited outside the sim, ghosting through some buildings and all trees, slow deceleration when landing, the fact that mission heights tend to be almost always below about 5,000 feet (which you can probably hand-edit, I haven't bothered), AI getting target fixated at times and finding their leader again if separated, regardless of distance. But the ability to 'warp' to the next encounter is a big plus, especially as unless it's an escort job, you can drag your waypoints around to control where you 'come out of warp'. The air-to-air combat AI is super, a real seat-of-the-pants, stick-gripped-tight-in-sweaty-palms experience (especially on the harder settings, where you meet expert pilots more often). The light-touch squadron management you can use or ignore; I like it much better than WoFF's semi-fixed 'A Flight/B Flight' approach. The audible rumble, visible shudder and 'feel' of your aircraft as you approach the stall is a massive plus in the flight experience and air combat departments. The plane models and skins are now mostly slightly behind RoF and WoFF, but still very acceptable to my eye. And there are just so many of them!

I tend to agree with you that WW1 is the classic period for a combat flight sim, and that this is reflected in the degree to which sims can give the player a more realistic, immersive and generally more satisfactory experience. The latter is not diminished by formations that are too small, or comms from ground controllers or other aircraft that are absent or limited - as seems to be the case with recent WW2 sims. No need to fret over how your radar set or your fancy weapons work. You can concentrate on flying, flight leading and shooting, while learning to recognise the landmarks in your area of operations. You can live and fight with the on-screen aids turned off, much more readily that with more modern periods, all the better for the realism. You can't of course bail out, not even if you're on the German side  near the war's end, but you can't have everything. 

Go get 'em, cowboy!

[Sky High 166]

One factor I have come to appreciate all the more as I get older is the value of time. Therefore, I greatly appreciate a sim that loads quickly and expeditiously launches me into the action. I could never make any fist of ROF, so it has gone from my hard-drive. WOFF is good, but takes an age to load on my pc. With FE2, I am quickly into what Lima vividly describes as a seat-of-the-pants dogfight, which is what it's all about.

The same impatience has led me back to the slimmer HSFX 7 from VP's fantastic, but slow-loading modpack; and has induced me to return to the resurrected European Air War and even to dabble with MiG Alley. It's all about the gameplay, I think. Shiny, fancy planes are all very fine, but this quality should only matter as a desirable but not necessary addendum to good gameplay.

[jeanba 1,920]

18 hours ago, Sky High said:

One factor I have come to appreciate all the more as I get older is the value of time. Therefore, I greatly appreciate a sim that loads quickly and expeditiously launches me into the action. I could never make any fist of ROF, so it has gone from my hard-drive. WOFF is good, but takes an age to load on my pc. With FE2, I am quickly into what Lima vividly describes as a seat-of-the-pants dogfight, which is what it's all about.

The same impatience has led me back to the slimmer HSFX 7 from VP's fantastic, but slow-loading modpack; and has induced me to return to the resurrected European Air War and even to dabble with MiG Alley. It's all about the gameplay, I think. Shiny, fancy planes are all very fine, but this quality should only matter as a desirable but not necessary addendum to good gameplay.

I am old too, but I found a solution : I read a book during the loading time.

Preferably a book on the subkject of the mission.

For instance, I read a book on air war over during the Nivelle offensive and I fly a Nieuport in April 1917

[seany65 11]

I've not voted as I only have two (OFF3+HITR+OFFice and FE), and I'm playing both of them at present, but both have things I don't like about them.

Dislikes:

OFF3+HITR: Takes a while to load and I'm dying every 2 minutes even on "Medium",  and the  inflight map is abysmal. The lighting seems rather dark, on 2 missions I was practically flying blind.

OFF3+HITR+OFFice: Takes just as long to load but having to faff about in OFFice first, with all the "Encounters" (though they can be avoided) and then pressing "Play" which then lauches OFF3, flying once and then quitting and re-starting OFFice and reporting to the adjutant etc. It's beginning to get on my nerves. No "Mouse Look".

FE: Only 3 flyable planes and limited to a short time for campaigns. For me, very hard to mod (only 2 braincells, you see). No "zoom to next waypoint/action point" option. No "Top Hat look".

Likes:

OFF3+HITR: More flyable planes than FE.  Far, Far, Far easier to mod than FE. "Zoom to next waypoint/action point" option.

OFF3+HITR+OFFice: At the minute I can't really think of anything "Extra" that I think is good, though the SE5A now has the "tube thing" for the pilot to aim through whereas it was previously just a cross in a circle.

FE: Launches pretty quick. The Lighting seems to be better than OFF3,  I ain't dying every 2 minutes.

Edited February 10, 2019 by seany65
Grammar. Added new commments.

[33LIMA 972]

You don't need to be able to mod FE or FE2 to be able to fly several times the number of planes in OFF or WoFF (and in different theatres, not just the Western Front). Just how to install other people's mods :)

The drill is different between FE and FE2 but second nature after doing it once or twice, just get a mod with a decent readme covering installation. Gets a bit more complicated only if you need to install an FE mod in FE2 or vice-versa, but nothing more complicated than moving files in Windows Explorer or editing an file in Wordpad.

The benefits of making the effort to learn the drill speak for themselves...

 

IIRC, in FE or FE2, Alt+N 'warps' you to the waypoint before your target area (which waypoint you can drag about in the briefing map, to give you a longer run-in if you wish).

[rotagen 0]

What most of these sims ignore is the fact that combat sims are about combat, adrenaline, death grip on the joystick....NOT about eye candy.  Sure, I want both, but if you ask me such a game does not exist.  I will get around to playing ROF again since somebody told me they fixed their damage model so you don't have to put 1000 bullets through a wood and canvas airplane to do some damage... but..I remember the SP missions were dull, and the online stuff always bores me after a while, especially when you have a game that is drudgery to bring down one plane.

The other HUGE problem with some of these games, especially anything CFS2 or CFS3 related is the terrible AI.. useless wingmen and sitting-duck enemies.  CFS2 however is still fun for me because they had the best damage model, really realistic cool little flames and smoke on the aircraft right where you hit it and appropriate strength/weakness of the materials, and CFS2 has a TON of add-on material, I used to fly over death valley satellite accurate terrain, etc etc.

So sorry, RB3D stock still wins... only because I don't like the ugly canvas jacket skins much.. You can adjust bullet mass and get the damage model about right for what these fragile planes were like... and single player dogfights are addictive and fun.

I noticed Thirdwire First Eagles was not in the list - if I remember correctly they had decent AI, VERY moddable game, and easy to make missions with LOTS of planes in the sky around you.

I've played pretty much every combat flight sim out there over the years, except the IL-2 flying circus since I'm getting sick of their greedy business model... and at the end of the day it's the old ones, it's Jane's WW2F that wins...(I know it's not WW1, but those other geeks could learn a LOT from the AI of this sim, you can have 30 flights using ACD, takes 5 seconds to make a random mission....within a mile or 2 of you and they will cut you to shreds...beautiful fire and explosions too...). secondly RB3D, and thirdly CFS2 for modding fun and great DM.... Wings of Prey had the most amazing realistic terrain and was a lot of fun before they turned into a same-old boring multiplayer game... that terrain / scenery was amazing, such a sense of speed when flying.

OFF I won't touch because I only need one microsoft cfs sim on my comp, I played CFS3 standard, but since their AI is so bad, all I did was uninstall a few weeks later.