Anti Aircraft Laser unveiled at Farnborough

[MigBuster 2,861]

I expect that over the years the time required for burn through would decrease and the range of the weapon would increase.

 

Potentially satelites and ICBMs could be taken out very easily - no wonder the Chinese have been testing it out over the years (well from whats reported).

 

Weaknesses - probably radar guided at distance, and its a beam that goes back to its source.

 

I see the patent for that countermeasure above was 1987! wonder what else is about.

 

will be interesting to see whats comes of this over the years!

[GwynO 16]

In space, no one can hear you scream, and it's harder to counter a laser weapon when stuck in a relatively predictable geosynchronous orbit, less crap to diffuse the beam around too. Atmospheric based lasers aren't entirely useless though, imagine what a much lower power laser with cheap as chips gimbal tracking mechanisms could do if set to seek and track cockpit type material with extremely disturbing light wavelengths? I'd imagine one of those balls stuck on the tail end could be useful in a close in dogfight. Must get to patent office.. although by the look of it 20 years too late

[JediMaster 451]

Are people actually arguing that this can't happen? All that needed to be solved was the power problem...generating a powerful enough laser to cause combat-effective damage. The ABL 747 has knocked down a test missile already at a very large range thanks to the powerful laser burning through the tank skin. It's only hard to track an object that you're very close to, but if you're out a few miles they can't outmaneuver a camera and therefore the laser. All you need is a powerful solid-state laser that can fit in a fighter which is still under development. The F-35's bay for the B model lift fan and available shaft for power from the engine has made it very attractive for that eventuality.

 

No pilot will feel the heat of the laser unless it's on their cockpit. After all, the engines get a LOT hotter in full AB but they don't feel that! All you need to do is hit the wing of a plane where the fuel is. You start a fire and it's over. It's not some laser point the size of a pen point that has to sit on one spot for 10 seconds, the beam is wider than that and only has to stay in the general vicinity. Look at the video of the drone. First a fuel leak is started, which isn't in of itself fatal, until the beam's continued dwelling on that area ignites the fuel. That's the end of the drone. Regardless of whether a pilot can manage to put out the fire he's combat ineffective at that point, RTB.

 

Sure there are laser warning devices like on the Ka-50, but those are meant to detect a targeting laser's scatter, which you may notice function just fine at 30k+ ft designating LGB targets and even moving vehicles. No radar needed, computerized optics can track these objects. The cynical can say the pilot could roll the plane to dissipate the heat, but how long can they keep it up? Aileron rolls ad nauseum aren't going to get you away from AAA, SAMs, or missiles. A laser used together with another weapon, say aiming it at the wing while the pilot is pulling hard g's to break a missile lock, will be a deadly combination.

[Fubar512 1,350]

There are lasers, and laser-based systems (using lasers to ionize a path) that have incredibly long effective ranges. As for "rolling" to minimize damage, you're joking, right? Do you know of any aircraft that can roll in nano-seconds?

[GwynO 16]

Are people actually arguing that this can't happen? All that needed to be solved was the power problem...generating a powerful enough laser to cause combat-effective damage. The ABL 747 has knocked down a test missile already at a very large range thanks to the powerful laser burning through the tank skin. It's only hard to track an object that you're very close to, but if you're out a few miles they can't outmaneuver a camera and therefore the laser. All you need is a powerful solid-state laser that can fit in a fighter which is still under development. The F-35's bay for the B model lift fan and available shaft for power from the engine has made it very attractive for that eventuality.

 

No pilot will feel the heat of the laser unless it's on their cockpit. After all, the engines get a LOT hotter in full AB but they don't feel that! All you need to do is hit the wing of a plane where the fuel is. You start a fire and it's over. It's not some laser point the size of a pen point that has to sit on one spot for 10 seconds, the beam is wider than that and only has to stay in the general vicinity. Look at the video of the drone. First a fuel leak is started, which isn't in of itself fatal, until the beam's continued dwelling on that area ignites the fuel. That's the end of the drone. Regardless of whether a pilot can manage to put out the fire he's combat ineffective at that point, RTB.

 

Sure there are laser warning devices like on the Ka-50, but those are meant to detect a targeting laser's scatter, which you may notice function just fine at 30k+ ft designating LGB targets and even moving vehicles. No radar needed, computerized optics can track these objects. The cynical can say the pilot could roll the plane to dissipate the heat, but how long can they keep it up? Aileron rolls ad nauseum aren't going to get you away from AAA, SAMs, or missiles. A laser used together with another weapon, say aiming it at the wing while the pilot is pulling hard g's to break a missile lock, will be a deadly combination.

 

I'm not saying the events in the video can't happen, but curious as to how the problem of laser energy diffusion, blooming and so on was solved, or has it been solved, regarding weather. Also, the high energy beams needed to be effective as weapons need the kind of reverse focusing I described above due to the problem of the beam heating the air ahead and around it into plasma which is several degrees worse in terms of dissipation or blooming of the beam than adverse weather, in any case the problems remain of overcharging the mirror from all that energy in a matter of minutes if not seconds in all but very long wave pulse modes.

 

Not saying it's a cule de sac, just interested in the technical solutions to what are some enormous engineering challenges in manufacturing the reflecting surface and the focusing of the beam at the desired point for each given moment, the ability to counter at least the theoretical countermeasures is of much less importance as that would be more of a "software" solution as opposed to hardware.

 

 

 

[GwynO 16]

There are lasers, and laser-based systems (using lasers to ionize a path)

 

To both kinds asfaik, the weather is marmite.

[Fubar512 1,350]

To both kinds asfaik, the weather is marmite.

 

Not really. The latter system requires "weather"

 

Hint: http://www.teslaradio.com/pages/AD-A239_988.pdf

[GwynO 16]

Not really. The latter system requires "weather"

 

Hint: http://www.teslaradi...AD-A239_988.pdf

 

Yep, marmite, you either love it or hate it http://www.marmite.com/

[serverandenforcer 33]

What will be a real challenge to these lasers are the eels.

[ShrikeHawk 384]

Not really. The latter system requires "weather"

 

Hint: http://www.teslaradi...AD-A239_988.pdf

 

This sounds like setting up a shot for an Ion Cannon (particle projection). A positively scary weapon.

 

I'm NOT saying a laser point defense weapon can't be useful. I'm saying what's demonstrated so far isn't ready deploy.

 

It makes me think of the early Sidewinders and Sparrows. They tested them against non-maneuvering drones and found them good. They trusted this skimpy testing so much they built the F-4 fighter without a cannon. Blasphemy! My fear is that military planners will think these results are conclusive and put American men's and women's lives at stake...again...with a weapon not thoroughly tested. Combat is far different from the testing environment. The enemy doesn't fly straight and level on predictable flight paths because he wants live as much as you do. He'll deliberately perform the unexpected to foil your plans. This "soft" test doesn't impress me. I want to see what it can do when the target is pulling 9-gee maneuvers. If it can still down the target or at least disable it, I'll jump up and down in glee with the rest.

 

For now, I'll just say, "keep working on it. I'm behind you."

[Gr.Viper 131]

Do you know of any aircraft that can roll in nano-seconds?

The drone in the video looks more like it's slowly burnt by a sunbeam

 

Anyway, I want to see how that works on a plasma coated-plane whenever that thing gets ready.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

You will recieve a warning as a pilot, your RWR would light p like a christmasstree, cause you still need radarguidance for this toy

 

I can imagine messages from a speaking RWR:

- Second 1: "You have been targetted by a Raytheon laser weapon. Thank you for choosing Raytheon."

- Second 3: "The weather is getting hot, isn't it? Open the canopy for fresh air."

- Second 6: "You are boiling. Any prayer?"

- Second 8: "You are perfectly cooked. Serve with onions and vegetables."

 

In a quite recent album of the French-Belgian comics "Buck Danny", an USAF F-16 pilot flying over the Korean DMZ was trapped and blinded by a North Korean red laser beam aimed at the cockpit. His navigation computer having been sabotaged by a South Korean traitor, his waypoints led the plane deeply in NK territory for him to be captured. A NK operation of propaganda.

[ShrikeHawk 384]

I can imagine messages from a speaking RWR:

- Second 1: "You have been targetted by a Raytheon laser weapon. Thank you for choosing Raytheon."

- Second 3: "The weather is getting hot, isn't it? Open the canopy for fresh air."

- Second 6: "You are boiling. Any prayer?"

- Second 8: "You are perfectly cooked. Serve with onions and vegetables."

 

I imagine the existing RWR might slowly malfunction after detection. Something like...

 

"DOO! - DOO! - DOO! - Dur! ---- Dur!...Ur!...*snap*...*pop* UR!...ur...*gasp*....rrrr...rr....

[Slartibartfast 153]

And everyone missed Kirks favourite line...

 

Set Phasers to Stun...

 

Sorry someone had to say it...

[shotdown 8]

The other thing is, point defense systems like CIWS and ZSUs don't need to retain a perfect firing solution lock for a long time. Once two or three shells hit the aircraft it is rendered ineffective if not destroyed. The lock doesn't have to be held for very long. Let's face it, these systems don't always hit against a determined enemy. They only need a split second of on-target firing to achieve success. It's that split second that makes them effective at all.

 

The laser system highlighted here has to maintain a lock for at least seven seconds, hitting the same spot on the airplane for the entire duration. If the current point defense gymbal systems could pull that off they would have already rendered aircraft obsolete!

 

I think destroying a missile shouldn't take as much energy as it takes to destroy a plane, and missiles don't manouver to avoid incoming fire. Also, if you shoot the laser into an incoming missile you will probably hit the missile nose, where the tracking system (radar, IR) is ussually located (I think), so I think the heat from the laser might be enough to destroy the guiding system even before actually damaging the missile body.

To make a long story short, I think it might take a much shorter time to destroy or disable a missile than it takes to do it with a plane, so I think it this laser could work as a short range anti missile defence system

[Gr.Viper 131]

missiles don't manouver to avoid incoming fire.

Getting some ASMs can be a bit tricky

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-700_Granit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-270_Moskit

[JediMaster 451]

Missile-jamming lasers already exist and are being deployed on some platforms. I forget exactly which are getting them. They merely attempt to blind or confuse the seeker head to prevent the missile from tracking, there's no destruction caused.