French warships for Russia to be armed with Ka-52 helicopters

[+Erik]

 

French warships for Russia to be armed with Ka-52 helicopters

 

14/08/2010 RIA Novosti Anton Denisov

 

Mistral-class helicopter carriers, which Russia plans to buy from France, will be armed with Russian Ka-52 Alligator helicopters, Air Force Commander Colonel General Alexander Zelin told the Ekho Moskvy FM station on Saturday.

 

He emphasized that the Ka-52 Alligator helicopters are very advanced and are equal to best foreign models.

 

The Ka-52 is armed with 30-mm cannon, Vikhr (Whirlwind) laser guided missiles, rockets, including S-24s, as well as bombs.

 

The Ka-52 is a modification of the basic Ka-50 Hokum model. The development of the Ka-52 started in 1994 in Russia, but its serial production began only in 2008.

 

The helicopter is also equipped with two radars, one for ground and one for aerial targets and a Samshite nighttime-daytime thermal sighting system.

 

Russia is negotiating the purchase of at least one French-built Mistral-class amphibious assault ship and plans to build three more vessels of the same class in partnership with the French naval shipbuilder DCNS.

 

A Mistral-class ship is capable of transporting and deploying 16 helicopters, four landing barges, up to 70 armored vehicles including 13 battle tanks, and 450 personnel.

 

The Russian military has said it plans to use Mistral ships in its Northern and Pacific fleets.

 

Many Russian military and industry experts have questioned the financial and military sense of the purchase, and some believe that Russia simply wants to gain access to advanced naval technology that could be used in the future in potential conflicts with NATO and its allies.

 

In April, the head of the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation, Mikhail Dmitriev, said the Mistral deal would be concluded by the end of the year.

 

MOSCOW, August 14

 

 

 

RIA Novosti

[dsawan]

interesting, I thought they would hold hinds instead. But the havoc is lighter.

[Slartibartfast]

Also the Ka-52 looks good on foreign port visits when parked on deck instead of the old Hind thats been around since the dawn of time or so it seems...

 

Whats more interesting is that the French are willing to sell the ships to the Russians... I wonder if they come with all the kit as in Radars etc...

[PGC]

Whats more interesting is that the French are willing to sell the ships to the Russians...

 

If it's not the French, the Spanish or the Dutch will do it... But it's more fun to critic the French, isn't it ?

 

I wonder if they come with all the kit as in Radars etc...

 

Yes, that is the question !

The French are not very enthusiastic to sell advanced radar as the Russian want, they would prefer to sell the vessels "naked"...

[+Gr.Viper]

they would prefer to sell the vessels "naked"...

Kinky!

[+SayethWhaaaa]

Wasn't it signed in the contract to provide a full technological transfer?

[xclusiv8]

A question. Is russia considered to be a threat like it was back in the soviet days? If not, what does it matter if they buy the whole package?

[Sakai]

The Russians will always be considered a threat over here in the US, who else has 2000 nukes pointed at them by a "friendly" country. The Cold War will linger on for a long time, being bitter enemies doesn't go away after 20 years, my generation still remembers the end game and the chaos that followed after the Soviet Unions break up (I was a news watchin kid). Anyways, I don't think it would be wise to sell those ships completely kitted up, but if push comes to shove, I don't see that anyone would sell a weapons system they have no useful countermeasure against.

[xclusiv8]

The Russians will always be considered a threat over here in the US, who else has 2000 nukes pointed at them by a "friendly" country. The Cold War will linger on for a long time, being bitter enemies doesn't go away after 20 years, my generation still remembers the end game and the chaos that followed after the Soviet Unions break up (I was a news watchin kid). Anyways, I don't think it would be wise to sell those ships completely kitted up, but if push comes to shove, I don't see that anyone would sell a weapons system they have no useful countermeasure against.

 

Maybe they have theire nukes "pointed" at you because you have yours pointed at them???

[+Erik]

Maybe they have theire nukes "pointed" at you because you have yours pointed at them???

 

Nuclear weapons don't have a need to be pointed anywhere. That position is sorta like Swiss Cheese, it has a lot of holes in it. :wink2:

 

When you're talking about an entire platform like an aircraft carrier there's a lot of arms agreements that go into consideration. Most of the times it's not as simply as A sells technology or products to B. More likely it's A sells technology to B who sells it to C who then sells it to D where A and C have no agreements it's impossible to prevent the sale to D if A opposes it. More to the point if B sells something that A doesn't want sold to D by selling it to C then B gets.

[ShrikeHawk]

After the Berlin wall went down and Perestroika became the word of the day, I had hoped that Russia would become our friend. But they are not our friend. They are still licking their economic wounds from the stresses of the cold war. They are "consolidating their forces" and preparing to rise again when opportunity permits.

[+Erik]

Our relationship with Russia is strong and getting stronger by the day. I wouldn't read anything into this news that has anything to do with USA and Russia. Respect is mutual here.

 

This is and always will be a touchy situation and it's nothing more than France protecting her interests globally, very wise. Think of it this way.

 

You and your wife have a wonderful marriage. You don't like one of your wife's friends at work and he has crabs. When you come down with crabs the marriage is over. It's always about the third party party favors. :wink2:

[Sakai]

Our relationship with Russia is strong and getting stronger by the day. I wouldn't read anything into this news that has anything to do with USA and Russia. Respect is mutual here.

 

This is and always will be a touchy situation and it's nothing more than France protecting her interests globally, very wise. Think of it this way.

 

You and your wife have a wonderful marriage. You don't like one of your wife's friends at work and he has crabs. When you come down with crabs the marriage is over. It's always about the third party party favors. :wink2:

 

LMAO, way to put it in terms that I can understand, lolololol. I can see France getting the itch, at one time they were the country to go to if you needed anything, from fighter aircraft to nuclear reactors, didn't matter if you were A, B, C, D, or L, just as long as you weren't North Korea. The US has since picked up much of that slack, and the F-16 is now a ubiquitous as the Mirage was. China is now becoming the walmart for dictatorships around the world and competing directly with the US for world arms domination, and France is really being left in the dust, so I can see why the sale to Russia is important. Big ticket items like warships are always a good way to maintain a presence in a country for the support aspect of the weapons you sell. But the future is never certain, and you never know when the weapons you sell will be turned against YOU (see Afghanistan with old Stingers we sold the mujaheddin now being used against our helicopters in the present)

[Nixou]

While France is the second worldwide military spender, it's far from being the second military weapons seller, so we just cannot afford being too selective. Furthermore, (this is just my opinion) while Russia isn't getting more democratic with the time since Putine era, it is not a real threat for Europe nowadays wise as it was after WW2. The fact that Russia needs to buy warships from another country instead of making it themselves is imo the proof of that.

[+JediMaster]

Well, that's the problem with making modern military weapons systems, they cost a ton of money. While it's rarely outside the capablities of a modern nation to make them, it's often outside their finances, so they sell them abroad to help pay for it. France merely has the reputation of selling the most because it goes it alone more often on systems, as opposed to international collaboration to spread out costs, when it probably didn't need to. That's because it's more about domestic technology R&D and production than the final product the military gets most of the time.

Let's face it, the Rafale has been Dassault's Windows Vista when it comes to sales compared to the Mirage 2000's Windows XP.

[+MigBuster]

Nice comparison - So on that logic...

 

Mirage 3 = Windows 95

 

Mirage 5 = Windows 98

 

Mirage F1 = Windows Millenium

[+JediMaster]

I'd say that follows fairly well.

[Abhi]

so wat will be windows seven,and hey wat abt macintosh.

 

but i know one thing the jf-17 is ubuntu.

[+JediMaster]

Unfortunately for Dassault, there's no follow-on to the Rafale in the works. There are UCAV programs going thru development in various stages, and I'd say those will be the Macs (just push a button and it does everything for you).

[+SayethWhaaaa]

While France is the second worldwide military spender, it's far from being the second military weapons seller

 

Not surprisingly, China is second in the world for spending. And France is ranked third for conventional arms exports (behind the US and Russia), so it's not that far from second.

 

 

To be fair to Russia's industry is still recovering from the post communist period of the 90s. The technical know-how is still there, but implementation is stymied mostly from a lack of public and private funding, not to mention losing a lot of technical expertise to the greener pastures of foreign military defense contractors in the west (and China). Democracy and Euro-centric defense have little to do with it. The Russian defense industry has to fend for themselves now and try to break into markets that have been traditionally 'Western' and that's no easy task. Since small arms, vehicles and aircraft have been strengths in the past, growth has been much faster in those areas and naturally things like ship building/development have fallen by the wayside as a consequence. Contracting out a tender such as the 2 LHD/Amphibious Assault ships like this is a good example of Russia opening up to the global market and pulling away from their centralised past.

Edited August 21, 2010 by Say What?!

[Nixou]

France merely has the reputation of selling the most because it goes it alone more often on systems, as opposed to international collaboration to spread out costs, when it probably didn't need to. That's because it's more about domestic technology R&D and production than the final product the military gets most of the time.

Let's face it, the Rafale has been Dassault's Windows Vista when it comes to sales compared to the Mirage 2000's Windows XP.

 

Well, to nuanciate that, i would say France is more european turned more than alone.

 

The Rafale thing is due to the fact France wanted to replace all types of Aircraft (Fighter bombers) with a single multirole navalised fighter, while Spain, UK Italy and Germany wanted a Aereal superiority only Eurofighter, So France withdrawn from Eurofighter program.

 

Now the irony of the situation is some time ago Eurofighter countries decided to make Eurofighter a multirole like Rafale and increase by much development cost of the Jet and it's armament to convert it to multirole.

 

So now you have two similar european fighters for the same thing and the same price. So much waste of money...

 

 

Nice comparison - So on that logic...

 

Mirage 3 = Windows 95

 

Mirage 5 = Windows 98

 

Mirage F1 = Windows Millenium

 

 

I'd say that follows fairly well.

 

 

 

Not surprisingly, China is second in the world for spending. And France is ranked third for conventional arms exports (behind the US and Russia), so it's not that far from second.

 

 

Well, globalfirepower site based on CIA world factbook places France as second (in 2008. Maybe changed since?): http://www.globalfir...ding-budget.asp under USA and ahead of China. It depends on sources i guess .

Edited August 22, 2010 by nixarass