Favorite World War 1 Movie & Book?

[Olham 164]

Movie: "The Blue Max"

 

Book: Julius Buckler "Malaula! Der Kampfruf meiner Staffel"

 

The book is also available in English as "Malaula! The battlecry of Jasta 17", translated by Norman Franks, I think.

I have hardly read anything about WW1 air combat yet, but this book gives a good sight on this young German's

youth in poverty, his way to become a roofer like his dad, and then the chance the coming war gave him, to learn

flying, and to mix with and get accepted by upper class officers - which was absolutely uncommon back in those

days. Buckler was a man with pride and inner dignity, plus good and friendly humour; and the very opposite of any

sinister type of person.

 

I will check, if I can find translations of "Sagittarius Rising" and "No Parachute".

Edited November 21, 2010 by Olham

[Bullethead 12]

That is absolutely obscene. In fact it's outright vile. I can't imagine when it was that WW2 so completely overtook the American public's memory of WW1.

 

I figure that happened on 7 December 1941. But even before then, WW1 was spoken of as little as possible and not remembered with joy in the US.

 

In the US, WW1 was NOT a popular war. Remember, Woodrow Wilson ran for re-election on the slogan, "He kept us out of war", although he then turned around and got us into it during his 2nd term, much against popular sentiment. Despite Entente propaganda to the contrary, there really was no way to spin WW1 as "free world vs. tyranny" in anything like the same way that was possible with WW2. WW1 was, at the bottom line, just another in the millennia-long series of European power struggles. The US was getting rich off it and also growing in world stature as the European powers bled each other to death. Thus, not only would getting actively involved cut into both types of profits, besides getting a bunch of US troops killed, but coming in with the Entente was actually helping what was then viewed as the US's hereditary enemy, the UK. Not only had we fought the UK more than any other power up to that point, but we were then intense rivals in the maritime trade business. In fact, the Washington Treary on naval limitations shortly after WW1 probably staved off a 3rd war between the US and the UK. On top of all this, you had a significant fraction of the US population being either immigrants from Germany or their recent progeny, plus the general isolationist views of most US citizens (maintained until at least Pearl Harbor). Such folks remembered (either 1st hand or from their parents' preaching) that one major reason for settling the American Wilderness in the face of hostile natives and other hardships (then still an on-going process) was getting away from being cannonfodder in the incessant European power struggles. The very abstract and rather ludicrous idea that US citizens should be able to wander about war zones under belligernent flags was in no way a just causus belli to most Americans. And then, of course, once in WW1, Pershing's dedication to pre-1914 tactics wrought their bloody work.

 

So, you have an episode most US citizens wanted to forget. Hence, the "Roaring 20s". And back then, men were men, so vets didn't go around whining afterwards about how brutal it had been to their poor psyches--there were enough shellshock cases to say that for them. Thus, compared to Europe, there were practically no US war memoirs published. Besides, it all happened when even voice radio and newsreels were in their infancy, if they existed at all, and television, with its contempoary penchant for anniversary documentaries, was still half a century in the future. Thus, there was never a WW1 version of "Band of Brothers", and even if somebody today wants to make one, there are no living survivors to interview and precious little archival footage to kludge together into a coherent whole. WW1 has, for all intents and purposes, become the realm of archaeology, such as "Digging up the Trenches".

 

Both my grandfathers and all their numerous brothers served in WW1 on the US side. Numerous cousins at greater or lesser remove served on all sides. I'm not yet 50, but my family breeds late, so I'm a generation behind most of my contemporaries. They have even less knowledge of such things, just has I have practically zero knowledge of any of my 8 great-grandparents beyond their names. More than 2 generations behind us, it's all quite literally ancient history. It might as well have happened Xenophon for all we really know about it.

[Flyby PC 23]

Even bad films have good moments. I shouldn't really say bad films, but films that perhaps don't engage you end to end.

 

I didn't really enjoy the Red Baron, but the dogfight, when the Flying Circus decended on the British Bombers had a certain feel about it. It got the 'WOW!' factor just about right.

 

Got a similar feeling watching Band of Brothers, when the C47's came through cloud and the ack-ack and tracer filled the sky. Having stood in such a doorway myself, (though never in action just training, and never under fire), it was quite a striking few seconds of footage. I was once first man out a Herc, and as such stood in the doorway for quite a few minutes before the green for 'go'. It was about 3 or 4 am as I remember, but light enough to see absolutely everything about 1000ft below. More than 20 years ago, but I'll never forget it, and that was just a quiet training jump. I reckon if you'd seen all that tracer and artillery coming up at you for real, even for a few seconds, I guarantee the images would be etched into the back of your skull and something you'd never, ever, forget.

 

I also liked the grim realism of Passchendaele. Didn't care for the love story much, but I respect the Canadian perspective of a Canadian film, but the actual fighting looked grimly accurate as a representation of somewhere you'd never want to be. It's a little, little, bit like Private Ryan. I don't quite 'get it' why films about Passchendaele and D-Day, two massive events in history, still need to carry a cheesey sub-plot. Given the choice, I'd watch the Longest Day, complete with it's dated special effects over SPR every time. - But maybe that's just me. I like to learn stuff, not just be entertained.

 

Favourite Book? Tough. Easiest to read and most rewarding is Max Arthur's Forgotten Voices of the Great War. Brief interviews of the people who were there. It's like a picture painting a thousand words in reverse - It's a thousand voices painting one picture.

[Bullethead 12]

I also liked the grim realism of Passchendaele. Didn't care for the love story much, but I respect the Canadian perspective of a Canadian film, but the actual fighting looked grimly accurate as a representation of somewhere you'd never want to be. It's a little, little, bit like Private Ryan. I don't quite 'get it' why films about Passchendaele and D-Day, two massive events in history, still need to carry a cheesey sub-plot. Given the choice, I'd watch the Longest Day, complete with it's dated special effects over SPR every time. - But maybe that's just me. I like to learn stuff, not just be entertained.

 

Interesting. I've never saw SPR as having any sub-plot. It's all about exactly what it's name says, which is a military "ripping yarn" that just happens to be set against the background of the first few days of the Normandy campaign. There's no attempt to explain the context and IMHO no need to, given the scads of books, movies, and documentaries on that subject. Besides, it's a tale of small cogs being jerked around chaotically in a huge machine. None of the characters know what's going on beyond rifle range from him, so to me it's more realistic that the movie doesn't try to tell you while squeezing in some cheesy love story or whatever.

 

I've also never seen SPR's story as cheesy. It is, after all, the classic story format of the "Heroes' Quest". It's pretty much a retelling of King Arthur and the Holy Grail, in fact. You can't call that cheesy :). Now, SPR's quest might seem far-fetched, but that sort of thing could easily have happened and possibly actually did. Even if not, it's still a good representation the wild-haired missions that come down frequently from on high that guys at the bottom get killed proving are stupid ideas in practice, no matter how good they looked at GHQ. In Desert Storm, a few equally stupid and bizarre missions found their way into my foxhole, so it would not have surprised me in the least to have been sent out on the same mission. and march....

 

But that's just me. Also, I will say that SPR's combat scenes were extremely realistic and gave me flashbacks for a couple weeks. I remember when the movie was over, not one person in the theater so much as twitched for several minutes after the lights came on. IMHO you rate combat pay for watching it. So maybe I just like this movie because of the effect it had on me.

[Flyby PC 23]

Saving Private Ryan is pure fiction, it never happened, not under different names, not on a different beach, and it was only inspired by a war memorial to four brothers all killed in the American Civil War, - and the saving of any of them didn't happen then either.

 

It just strikes me there were enough better, and true life stories of heroism going on throughout D-Day and beyond to have formed a better basis as a tribute to the veterans who were there. I fail to see the reason to make something up unless pure entertainment was the sole object of making the film. If that's the case, I think the vets deserve something better.

 

And besides, is a mother losing four sons any harder to bear than a mother losing her only son? - But then you couldn't have the heroic line that Ryan's Para brethren are the only brothers he's got left. To my mind, if thats not cheesy, then it's on the border. Band of Brothers made the same point, but put it a whole lot better.

[Creaghorn 10]

Saving Private Ryan is pure fiction, it never happened, not under different names, not on a different beach, and it was only inspired by a war memorial to four brothers all killed in the American Civil War, - and the saving of any of them didn't happen then either.

 

It just strikes me there were enough better, and true life stories of heroism going on throughout D-Day and beyond to have formed a better basis as a tribute to the veterans who were there. I fail to see the reason to make something up unless pure entertainment was the sole object of making the film. If that's the case, I think the vets deserve something better.

 

And besides, is a mother losing four sons any harder to bear than a mother losing her only son? - But then you couldn't have the heroic line that Ryan's Para brethren are the only brothers he's got left. To my mind, if thats not cheesy, then it's on the border. Band of Brothers made the same point, but put it a whole lot better.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sole_Survivor_Policy

 

 

@Bullethead

 

always enjoying to read your posts. your POV and knowledge about the links and matters in the various wars

[Flyby PC 23]

Thanks for that Creaghorn, I didn't know about that, but I still feel the same, and as far as I know SPR was based on four civil war deaths, and the story was 100% fictional. That's today's new thing learned!

 

Even having read these further accounts, it seems the last surviving kin are withdrawn from places of hazard and given safer deployments. That's quite different from sending a fighting patrol through occupied and hostile territory to save someones life. By all means send communications to recall him from the front, I'm sure that could and would happen, but put other men's lives at risk to do it? Even without a radio, why a whole patrol, not a runner? - Military doctrine for centuries. I reckon that's pure Hollywood. Not only is SPR fictional, I don't think it ever would happen. For one thing, imagine the guilt added to grief of the mother, if even more lives were lost just to save her last son?

 

I don't want to open a big argument about it, but why couldn't Speilberg just find a true story to tell us? Not enough to pick from? Band of Brothers was great because it came straight from the mouths of veterans who were there. That to my mind gives Band of Brothers a level of integrity which SPR just hasn't got. SPR isn't true, nor is it even a dramatisation of a true story, nor is it an amalgamation of condensed events. It's make believe, with a realistic enough backdrop to imply it is a true story. Take away the outstanding lifelike action and special effects, and nobody would remember SPR above any other fictional and 'make believe' war film.

 

Look at the 633 squadron films. Why make a fictional film featuring a casual mission to bomb a prison to free the prisoners, when there was a real and successful mission to actually do it? Why not make a film about that? Is a plane clattering a rooftop with it's tail wheel not dramatic enough? I'd love to see a film dramatisation of the real activities of 2nd TAF Mosquitos. The real plot and drama, and tragedy too, would leave 633 squadron absolutely breathless, but until it's made, all I have as cinematic tribute to the real crews is the beautiful footage of real mosquitos blighted by some banal claptrap added for the benefit of the box office.

 

Hate to say it, but SPR and 633 squadron would (and do) share the same 'fiction' drawer.

 

(And as for U-571, well it has it's own space on the shelf - still in the video shop).

[Bullethead 12]

It just strikes me there were enough better, and true life stories of heroism going on throughout D-Day and beyond to have formed a better basis as a tribute to the veterans who were there. I fail to see the reason to make something up unless pure entertainment was the sole object of making the film. If that's the case, I think the vets deserve something better.

 

Well, there are scads of non-fiction tribute pieces out there in all sorts of media, such as "Band of Brothers", not to mention all the memories and the ships, bases, buildings, etc., named for specific guys. So I think that ground is pretty well covered. That leaves room for other things, and IMHO WW2 isn't so sacrosanct that it can't have some fiction thrown in, too.

 

Sure, the story of SPR is pure fiction, to the point where it can be classified into one of the handful to narrative types that have occurred in literature since writing was 1st invented. All that time and we're still telling the same old stories, just with different names and settings. But that's because these are good stories, time-tested :).

 

But put that aside for a moment and consider the portrayal of the characters. You can't say that was in any way disrespectful of veterans, past or present. SPR's heroes are brave, resourceful, disciplined, skillful, etc: good soldiers all. They get a stupid, highly dangerous job, which they don't agree with at all ("why do I have to get killed so this other SOB can go home?") but they salute and march because they're good soldiers, even if they bitch about it.

 

And the whole thing about their mission is the ultimate temptation to disobey orders. After all, they're out there operating completely on their own, in a very confused situation where nobody knows whats going on and their bosses can't keep an eye on them. It would have been VERY easy for them to have found a deserted shack somewhere, taken a few days off catching up on sleep, then come back home saying they'd tried their best but couldn't find the guy anywhere. I've been known to do that sort of thing myself when given stupid missions. But these guys carried on with it, not because they were driven forward by some hard-dick, long-service bastard, not because they were brainwashed militarized zombies, but because they decided, as a result of being good people as well as good soldiers, that it was the better thing to do. Then Ryan himself didn't want to leave his unit just before what was sure to be a desperate battle, so they all stayed for that when they could have walked out. He was also a good person and a good soldier.

 

So anyway, I think the whole movie was a very respectful tribute to the conduct of the real troops in their Hellish surroundings. The actual story might be BS, but real people were indeed faced with similar situations and usually behaved quite admirably. And IMHO, I'd rather have a fictional story presenting this type of message because it's a tribute to every swingin' Richard, then, before, and since. The problem I have with things like "Band of Brothers" is that by picking out a single unit, and an elite one at that, they tend to foster the notion that other units weren't as good, didn't go through just as much if not more Hell, didn't have such admirable people in them, etc.

 

And besides, is a mother losing four sons any harder to bear than a mother losing her only son? - But then you couldn't have the heroic line that Ryan's Para brethren are the only brothers he's got left. To my mind, if thats not cheesy, then it's on the border. Band of Brothers made the same point, but put it a whole lot better.

 

Well, one of my great-grandfathers and his 4 brothers were marching side by side in Pickett's Charge and the same cloud of grapeshot did for the 4 brothers all at once. Nobody made a movie about that, so I hope that makes you feel better .

[Olham 164]

Das Buch von Cecil Lewis - Sagittarius Rising - wurde ins Deutsche übersetzt und erschien 2008 im Eichborn-Verlag

unter dem deutschen Titel:

 

Cecil Lewis: Schütze im Steigflug

 

("Schütze / Sagittarius" bezieht sich auf sein Sternbild.)

 

Hier ist das Link zu AMAZON:

http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/3821845945/ref=s9_simh_gw_p14_d0_i1?pf_rd_m=A3JWKAKR8XB7XF&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=0SBW62EXMJSPK3WSHF11&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=463375193&pf_rd_i=301128

[Olham 164]

Arthur Gould Lee: No Parachute is available at AbeBooks. (Couldn't find a German translation.)

 

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?an=Arthur+Gould+Lee&sts=t&tn=No+Parachute&x=77&y=15

[gordohk 1]

Here is a link to Derek Robinson's site and it appears that he has copies of Hornet's Sting

 

http://www.derekrobinson.info/

[+guuruu 5,909]

Tora Tora Tora or Bridge too Far, both are pefrect ;-)

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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OK guuruu, so you're obviously joking, but how in the world did you happen across this six-year-old thread?  Must be a slow day, eh?

 

 

Lou

 

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[Hellshade 110]

It is now officially a Necro thread.   Back to life after being long dead. 

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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The Lazarus Effect.

 

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[+guuruu 5,909]

Yes ;-) And the best is, that I voted for ww2 not ww1 movies ;-)

Well, I was tired ;-))

[Typhoon 5]

Movie.......Hell's Angels

Book........ At the Sharp End by Tim Cook

[jeanba 1,920]

Just watched an italian movie :
La Granda Guerra by Mario Monicelli

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVEEa62HVIM

Fantastic ! !!

Edited March 14, 2017 by jeanba

[Dutch_P47M 9]

WW1 combatfly movie: aces high

WW1 book: Walter Pieters book about the Belgium airforce

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Pieters' volume is THE definitive reference concerning the Belgian Air Service and its role in the Great War.  Also, given the book's generous size and weight it makes for a handy weapon should an unwanted intruder attempt to enter your library.

 

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[Hasse Wind 46]

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Pieters' volume is THE definitive reference concerning the Belgian Air Service and its role in the Great War.  Also, given the book's generous size and weight it makes for a handy weapon should an unwanted intruder attempt to enter your library.

 

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Provided that it doesn't crush you beneath its great weight first as you attempt to lift it up against the intruder. 

 

That book would be the only source the WOFF devs would need to add the Belgians to the sim. Alas, I fear that will never happen.

[Olham 164]

You guys are SOOO silly - but nice to see you, gents! Come to the bar - I'll buy the drinkies!

 

Large booksize and high quality paper for such works like Pieters' allow firstly one great thing: high-quality and large-enough print of images and profiles.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Yes, we are rather silly, but not so much so that we would miss a free drink.  Good to see you Olham!  How's life on the virtual high seas?

 

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[Olham 164]

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Yes, we are rather silly, but not so much so that we would miss a free drink.  Good to see you Olham!  How's life on the virtual high seas?

 

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Stressful, Lou, to be honest.

Maybe I'm getting too old for port battles, where the Yankees have their best daylight time - while for the Dane I play, it is 02:28 h after midnight...

Maybe I'm trying too hard to win it singlehandedly again? (Well, thanks to such people, we are doing quite well for such a small NATION...)

 

Let's wait for Hauksbee and Hasse - but if they don't appear in 15 minutes, we will walk over to the bar.

No Lagavulin here nor anything near that origin, but I have discovered a chest with 6 bottles of Loch Lomond under the bar desk,

which I guess will do nicely under war conditions.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Olham

[Hauksbee 103]

Sorry mates! I'm running late. I'll catch you up in a bit.