SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Caesar 305]

Back!  Been a while, so I took up a Turkey against an F-16 Blk 50 - not pretty.  Took about 6 minutes to gun him, so I'm gonna need to get some sorties in before I post anything.  Also, I saw while I was away that we were pretty F-14 heavy, so I plan to try some other airframes to post.  Good job on the experimental stuff, Saisran, might take them on at a later date.  Also, nice to see Crusader add to the fun!

[cougar_1979 37]

 

baffmeister made a new, further improved FM for our F1's which is great ...

I would love trying it out. Cold war era birds are my favorites! Is it up yet?

[saisran 84]

The AI super climb, yep, usually happens when i damage the AI kite 8debug shows heavy dmg status) but i havent found out what is causing the insane climb

Think we reported that already back in the beta test days of later SF2 games .. IIRC ...

 

F1's

F1AJ ?  ..

theres a F1JA (Ecuador), almost all books say its a E variant but its really a C derivative, it has the old F1C pit but the *long* (+7 cm) fuselage of the

C-200 series (which have the refuel probe) but the JA has no probe/IFR capability.

 

"True" E variants are usually heavier by about 100 kg due to the inertial NAV and doppler fitment + more electronics of the better HUD/NAV Attack System.

Those extra electronics reduce the fuel capacity by 200 liters

All F1 variants use the same engine

So there is no telling performance difference...

 

baffmeister made a new, further improved FM for our F1's which is great ...

 

F1JA it was. Just mis remembered the name. I tried it out last night against the F4E phantom(late model). The fight took forever but i was able to be in a better position most of the time. Then took out the phantom against it and while i can easily out climb and out accelerate the F1. Getting a gun solution is another story. As much as i love the phantom i really can't figure that beast out, i'm a hopelessly loss in it without a Lima. 

 

@Caesar. - cant wait for your DACTs. 6-7 mins is the average time i need to get the Victory. Guess i still have a long way to go. :)

[cougar_1979 37]

F1JA it was. Just mis remembered the name. I tried it out last night against the F4E phantom(late model). The fight took forever but i was able to be in a better position most of the time. Then took out the phantom against it and while i can easily out climb and out accelerate the F1. Getting a gun solution is another story. As much as i love the phantom i really can't figure that beast out, i'm a hopelessly loss in it without a Lima. 

When flying the Phantom, out of plane is the name of the game. There is almost nothing out there in that era and has the fighter label attached to it, then you can actually turn with it. Sure it is possible to start your turn transonic and bring your nose around by bleeding like hell, but that would only give you snap shots opportunities. Do note that, out of plane maneuvers will result in snap shot mostly as well, however at least you'll get them more consistently. The prime problem here is not the Phantom but the omniscient AI that always knows exactly where you are and has a pretty good idea where you would be, so even when dropping on it from a blind spot it will still perform the best gun defence available to it.

[saisran 84]

When flying the Phantom, out of plane is the name of the game. There is almost nothing out there in that era and has the fighter label attached to it, then you can actually turn with it. Sure it is possible to start your turn transonic and bring your nose around by bleeding like hell, but that would only give you snap shots opportunities. Do note that, out of plane maneuvers will result in snap shot mostly as well, however at least you'll get them more consistently. The prime problem here is not the Phantom but the omniscient AI that always knows exactly where you are and has a pretty good idea where you would be, so even when dropping on it from a blind spot it will still perform the best gun defence available to it.

I've been using out of plane maneuvers(well mostly just zooming up and down.) I just cant get the timing of the phantom for guns. if its just the lima or ven the sparrows its not a problem. maybe its because im used to the tomcat and sabers? The phantom for me is just such a different beast. Dont get me wrong. I love the Phamtom, especially the navy ones. i just cant kill anyone with the gun unless they're bombers

[+Crusader 2,101]

I would love trying it out. Cold war era birds are my favorites! Is it up yet?

Not yet...

But I can make a FM evaluation pack for you ...

 

Ive updated my F1 vs F-14 post above

with screenies

[Caesar 305]

On the last page, Saisran did a 1v1 against the F-22 in an F-14D and could not get the aircraft's radar to track.  I think this was discussed a few years back, but there is a BaseRCSModifier= and HeatSignature= line you can use in the aircraft's data.ini.  I decided to take a look at that before doing the same fight, and found the number for the F-22 to be a negative number.  I think this means the aircraft cannot be tracked at all.  I went ahead and deleted the negative before the number and did not otherwise change it.  Hazzah!  The radar will track!  However, as you'd expect, not until the aircraft is about 10NM away.  This is with the APG-71, for which I believe we have a search and track strength of 200.  The AWG-9, APG-63 and others will likely have an even shorter track range.  This is a bit more realistic; Low Observable doesn't mean "invisible" to radar, but it does mean the target requires much closer range to detect/track.  I'll have to experiment with it more; the radar was able to spot the F-22 a ways away, but it couldn't get a track, and the plane jumped from what appeared to be 25NM or so to just shy of 10 once the radar finally got to track range.  That might be why it was a negative number (to completely deny detection), not sure, but if you wanted to to test it out, remove the "-" in front of the .0001, and you will be able to track the F-22 at very close range with a very powerful radar.

 

EDIT:

So, after a bit more experimenting, I found that the APG-71 will "see" the F-22 at 148km/79.9NM, but will not track until 8NM, however, TWS kind of breaks this, since it will allow you to fire at a "seen" target, regardless of if the radar can truly track it or not; as such, I was actually able to shoot an AIM-54 at the F-22 from around this range.  It missed, but it tracked all the way to the -22.  STT is still useless at this point.  Will take up the -22 against some adversaries and see what happens.

 

EDIT 2:

Flying the F-22 with the positive RCS modifier; I flew against an F-15C_85 and an F-14A_IR.  The F-15 carried 4 AIM-7P and 4 AIM-9M, the F-14 carred 4 AIM-54A, 2 AIM-7F, and 2 AIM-9P.  Neither aircraft began maneuvering against me at the ranges where I as a player could spot "something" on my radar.  The F-15, I locked and shot at to provoke into action at about 30NM.  By the time the missile reached it, the F-15 still hadn't converted on me.  For the F-14, I was experiencing the same, but I waited to shoot, because I realized, I needed to see when the AI would naturally engage.  Knowing the F-14A had TWS like I had as a player, I wanted to see if it'd be able to shoot me even without radar feedback.  It did not.  At 12.5NM, the F-14A finally spotted me and went to "RHM_ATTACK" on the debug.  I put a pair of AIM-120's its way, it launched an AIM-54A my way.  As is the case with TWS, my warning was only "missile inbound!"  One of the two AMRAAMs connected, and I dumped chaff to fool the Phoenix.

 

Takeaways:
LO helps to dominate the battlefield.  I believe that you should be able to remove the "-" in the RCS modifier and the F-22 will still paint the room with you 99 times out of 100 if missiles are involved, and you'll finally be able to track the F-22 at extremely close range.  Bear in mind that TWS kind of breaks the rules a bit, but for AI, this isn't a problem based on my experimentation.

[+EricJ 4,245]

And still tough as nails to deal with in the merge... it's no joke...

[cougar_1979 37]

Not yet...

But I can make a FM evaluation pack for you ...

 

Ive updated my F1 vs F-14 post above

with screenies

Nah, it's OK, i can wait for the release :)

[saisran 84]

Over the weekend i've been performing poorly on the ACM engagements, My gunnery was off and i can't seem to keep a good balance on my rate vs raduis thing. Even using my fave pit with a picture of a girl doesnt help.   However, I was for consecutive missions managed to get a maneuvering kill on a flat dessert floor. Therefore, my goal for my next Reports is to establish manuevers that will most likely end up with the AI crashing to the ground. Note: SU-27 is a bitch and can stop on a dime, and pull up  like it is nothing. So im using the Mig- 29A which is surprisingly less manueverable on the vertical.

 

I had earlier bouts but they didn't record. So i'm starting with the 1 v 2, F-14D vs 2 Mig-29 A guns only.

 

Hit the burners and went into the merge. Instead of pulling up like i always do i went inverted and dove hard to the deck to try and speed things up. It seems my stick is acting up again it seems im not getting full deflection on the stabs as the tomcat failed to level at my planned 5k ft and almost ended up as a sub. I would have lost all energy advantage but i seems like the Migs followed me on the dive. I'm still at an altitude disadvantage but ot as bad as i thought. Went up for a loop. I picked one of the mig on the way down just above my canopy and then the second mig went past going up into the vertical. Went back up Full Flaps and inverted the Tomcat went on a dive. Hoping to meet the Migs head on so i can execute the kill maneuver whichs is to climb to around 3K Ft at below 300 Knts then dive down at split S at 1k ft and go back up in a tight loop. It should force the Mig Which is maneuvering behind me to went up and loop around within 3K ft going at the high 300kias on the dive and it should not be able to pull out of it. The migs were probably doing a downwarn turn or a full blown split S and one of them wasnt able to do it. Redo the manuever to get  visual n the mig. Followed its turn for a while. Burning Fuel to make the tomcat Lighter. Droped the Mose and applied full Rudder. The Tomcat corkscrewed in a 180 Degree turn whicch place me behind the Fulcrum, but then the fulcrum decided to do its own 180 and met me with a tracer which were just meters of the cockpit. We went past and i started the Split S and Loop Combo. However, the Mig refused to wen straight on and level out and did another crazy 180 turn. RWR ringing means he got nose on. I rolled the Tomcat in the opposite direction and dove down once again, into the loop then another but the Fulcrum weary of what happed to his partner refused to play my game. I was left with no other choice than to gun it down.

 

I managed to curve my nose on him. He reversed his turn and gave me a good look. The bullets just went though him. I followed him into a right hander 2 to 3nm off my nose. Piper right ontop and the bullets just goes off a bit to the left or the right. A series of barrel rolls to try and keep on his six. He dove into a  large roll/Split S and i followed. We ended up going back to a left hand turn, he did the manouever once more yet he failed to shake the tomcat off. Straining the tomcat i managed to get a off centered guns solution, i squeezed the trigger and and the funny story is the rounds landed. Splash 2!

 

 

Quite a long engagement going 8 mins. With 1/10 left in the fuel tank i managed to cruise back and land. my observation in this engagement and the one before it is that the AI has enough brains to support each other mutually. One will engage actively while the other following closely at a different altitude to provide cover and attack if the sutuations dictates. They can also do pincer manuevers to try and corner you. you know what. TK's AI are probably the most well balanced AI i have seen in an Aviation related game.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

I would love trying it out. Cold war era birds are my favorites! Is it up yet?

 

I did release a beta test version of the new Mirage F-1 flight model back in March. It should be very similar to the one included in the next "official" releases. If you or anyone wants to try it out go here: http://combatace.com/topic/85698-mirage-f-1-flight-model-test/ 

[Caesar 305]

Took advantage of the F-1 Beta FMs, specifically the F-1C-200.  I took the bird up against a MiG-21F-13 "Fishbed C" and an F-100D Super Sabre.  I also checked out an F-14A against it, just to see how it flies against a familiar airframe.  Generally found the bird to be pretty good against the Super Sabre, and I never felt uncomfortable against the Fishbed C, though it took me a lot longer to get on its tail than the -100.  Here's the videos of the various combats flown:

 

F-1C-200 vs F-100D (68)

 

F-1C-200 vs MiG-21F-13

 

F-14A vs F-1C-200

[saisran 84]

Awesime flying and awesome gunnery Caesar. Really missed your DACT. Eric Hasnt posted any as well yet.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Thanks for posting the vids Caeser, really enjoyed them. The second F-1 vs MiG-21 video reminds me of one I got into against a Soviet ace. Lot's of good defensive maneuvers by the MiG-21 pilot but also complicated by low light conditions while flying over water. I had to be very wary of the surface while trying to get a gun kill. My missiles were expended at that point. Like your experience, once the engagement started I was able to stay on top of the MiG-21.

[Caesar 305]

Thanks, folks!  By the way, wanted to thank Crusader for the new default gun range for the F-14.  I've noticed that both with and without lock, I'm hitting my targets a lot easier.  Will have to implement that into the Super Pack.

[+EricJ 4,245]

Awesime flying and awesome gunnery Caesar. Really missed your DACT. Eric Hasnt posted any as well yet.

 

I know but I've got things going on that's been taking away some time away from SF2, so I've been thinking about it but haven't gotten motivated yet  ;)

[KJakker 901]

Thanks, folks!  By the way, wanted to thank Crusader for the new default gun range for the F-14.  I've noticed that both with and without lock, I'm hitting my targets a lot easier.  Will have to implement that into the Super Pack.

 

What is the new default gun range Crusader came up with? This is the first I have heard of it.

 

Also it has been a long time since I posted in here, now that I have Nvidia ShadowPlay maybe I should try my hand at a DACT video. I am thinking F-5E Tiger II vs MiG-21MF. That is if I can get away from the warships long enough.

[saisran 84]

I think Caesar is referring to this post from crusader when he was helping me with my gunnery. Haven't implemented them myself as i kinda forgot about them. Sorry Crusader.

 

"More a gunnery exercise than real DACT ;D

Looks like the boresight cross is missing in the HUD

In the cockpit ini, in the GunsightFront section, theres a value for DefaultLeadRange

In the TMF F-14A I have installed, its set to 500 Meters / 1640 ft

This value is used for lead computing without radar lock

500 meters value is a bit high

305 meters / 1000 ft works better for the typical close range no lock gunnery in SF"

[saisran 84]

Finally able to move around a bit. Dl'd Blackburn32's Aggressor Skin for the F-14D_96 and got interested with his cockpit mod. So i took the F-14D_96 Aggressor and took it against the F-15C_85 on the Nellis range for a 1v1 gun fight.

 

Fight 1

 

 

got lost watching the F-15C and ended up entering the merge at 37K ft. Rolled the Tomcat towards the Eagle and dove in after it in a tight turn. I reached the bottom and as the tomcat climbs back up in full burner i managed to get the Eagle out front. Dropping the flaps, i was able to wrestle the tomcat behind the eagle. I have several looks but the view point of the cockpit mod threw me off and i wasn't able to get a good judge on the lead. I eased the the stick pressure a bit to allow the Tomcat to gain airspeed while keeping the F-15 inside the HUD. A few long burst and i was able to land 24 rounds on it.

 

Fight 2

 

 

This was a bit better. maintained an altitude at par with the eagle and tried to keep the tomcat within its best fighting speed. Sure enough i had the eagle on my sight before we can complete the turn. Had a couple of attempt with no hits. pulled back on the throttle and allowed the tomcat to glide in position. A quick burst to help me judge where the next shot will land, put the burners back on and a long burst just to make sure and boom. Splash 2!

 

 

Being unable to fly for a long time really threw me in for a loop. I was turnng the rudders whenever i pulled and swing the stick which is really bad for precision flying/Dog fighting.

 

I really like the new aggressor skin and the POV used by blackurn is a treat for landing. However it looks great with the camera angled down which is not good for dog fighting. I think it would be great if is assigned 1 view mode.

Edited August 8, 2015 by saisran

[saisran 84]

Had a Fighter Sweep/CAP mission with a 4 Ship of J-35 Draken loaded with the latest compliment of SAHM and IRM and we were met with a 2 ship of F-14B's loaded with 4x AIM-54As, 2X AIM-7 and 2x AIM-9s each. So our flight was decimated and it only took one tomcat to eradicate all 4 of us. So a quick 2v2 guns only was in order.

 

2 J-35 Draken and 2 F-14B Tomcat guns.

 

 

Tally ho! i sent wingie to seek the other bandit. Pulling a hard turn i managed to get behind the tomcat and was able to regain Airspeed while maintaining visual. After Holding it together for a couple of turns hoping that 2 is working the other bandit off my tail i managed to get a good angle but my rounds was off to the right of the wing and didn't do much harm to the tomcat and i ended up with an overshoot. Going vertical i managed to maintain my position on the Tomcat six. By the time i was back in the saddle, wingie is crying out being hit. Time to hanker down and get this guy before his buddy comes to his aide. The tomcat took a great deal of punishment before i got a fire started on the right engine and a couple more burst to get it to explode. Once, again i was reminded how Grumman earned its nickname "Iron Works".

 

Turned towards the 2nd bandit and was surprised to head my wingie call out that he splashed his bandit. Went and took a look and saw the other tomcat tumbling down. Checked on the wingie and saw him going down as well

 

The fight ends with 1 Draken and 2 Tomcat being shot down. I guess SAAB Also builds a rugged airplanes.

[Caesar 305]

Good fights, Saisran!  I've got a few of my own to add.  With the new EF-2000 Beta Pack out, I decided to get a few fights in.  This video details 3, one against a MiG-29, one against a MiG-19, and one in an F-14B vs the EF-2000 (the v1.22 release candidate Tomcat).  One thing I did have to do was lower the power of the EF-2000's jammer.  Even high power radars can't track it because of the twin 95-power jammers combined with 0.2m² RCS, regardless of range (even under a mile).  Like the F-22, ECM and LO combine to make a difficult target to track, but once you get within a certain distance, 5kW or 7kW or 10kW of energy will burn through without difficulty.  'Course, this is a game-ism.  Here's some of the general findings I have:

 

The EF-2000's supercruise capability helps to get to the fight pretty darn quick without burning too much gas.  Its engines produce excellent thrust to weight, but the type does bleed speed after some hard pulls.  I actually anticipated this, given the delta design, and in player hands, it feels highly maneuverable, but NOT a UFO, and that impressed me.  Its high alpha combat capability is incredible, but it can be a disadvantage when you're trying to do a high-deflection shot and the pipper winds up below the HUD, especially against an AI aircraft that keeps its energy up.  I felt that I was able to out-match the FULCRUM without too much difficulty.  There were several times I ran into the pipper-below-HUD problem.

 

Against the MiG-19, the high-alpha advantage is much more pronounced.  The small size of the -19 is what spoiled a lot of my shots.  I didn't do a video against the MiG-17 because it was over extremely quickly.  Finally, in the F-14 against the Typhoon, I got the fight slow, and that was actually kind of stupid, since the Typhoon typically holds a 3-4 degree sustainable AoA advantage against the F-14 (26-28 degrees vs 23-25), but I also found that dropping full flaps and hard rudder inputs really allowed me to comfortably reverse and yank hard to get on the Typhoon's tail.  I did two nose-down "bait" dives to regain energy and lure the Typhoon into a diving attack.  Worked both times, but I need to fly more and see how the Turkey Beast and Typhoon compare at higher speeds.  I'm guessing it'll be another stalemate situation, but I won't know until I do more tests.  Anyhow, here's the video.

 

 

Pretty impressed with the new EF-2000.

[saisran 84]

Awesome flying Caesar! can't wait for the release of the new version of the cat. 

 

I actually think that the Typhoon held energy a little to well but i might just be imagining things as i haven't flown the other Deltas for a while.A delta showdown anyone?

[saisran 84]

Went ahead and took the Typhoon against other relevant Daltas.

 

here's the first half:

 

1. EF-2000 vs Mirage-2000D

 

Fight started with the mirage spawning at the Typhoon's 7 o'clock. leveled the Typhoon and went vertical. after about two Yoyo's and blackouts i was able to get behind the Mirage and stayed there with no difficulty. After 38 30mm rounds of bad aiming i was able to predict its damn flight path and gunned it down.

 

2. EF-2000 vs JA-37D

 

This Fight was surprisingly a lot more challenge. Spawned on my 7 we ended in a mach speed-high G left hander, The JA-37D handled the Typhoon pretty well at this regime so i took the typhoon up and dove on the Viggen to change it up a bit. We went Vertical for a couple of passes and i failed to managed the Typhoon's energy and we ended up if a slow right hand turn as i build the typhoon's Energy up. But the Viggen did a reversal and tried to drag the fight out back in a left hander. I leveled out and took the fight back to the vertical which finally placed me within striking distance of the Viggen. After another series of bad gunnery i finally able to nad a couple of hits on its tailpipes.

 

3. EF-2000 Vs Jas-39C

 

Learning from the two previous fights and expecting a more demanding opponent i punched the AB right after the bat and went vertical as i wait for the Gripen to spawn. Dove down on the Gripen to start a vertical circle which bled the gripen's energy and allowed me a 6 o'clock position. Got a good firing solution and let out a burst that set the grpen's engine on fire. Idle the throttle and engaged the brakes. To allow slower VC, lined up the Vigen to the Piper. too high. Dropped the nose and let out a burst to end the fight for good.

[+EricJ 4,245]

That's what's good (and hellacious when against it) is the turning ability of the EF2000, very tight and stable, may motivate me to fly again, nice vid too.

[+EricJ 4,245]

No video but a few screenies.

 

Mel EF2000 Typhoon with  4 x AIM-132, 4 x AIM-120C, gun

Opposition: F/A-18F Block II with 2x AIM-9X, tank, gun

 

The Super's loadout sure shows that letting other people muck with your shit produces bad results but should have caught it anyway, which I'll re-fix, again.  Anyway, the fight was fairly standard, i started from the top and let him take off and nearly had a mid-air collision and after that turned and burned and pretty much blacked out when dealing with a highly maneuverable opponent.  As they say "Lose sight, lose the fight" and for about nearly three minutes I nearly did, blacking out with every pull of the stick, so after keeping him from shooting at me (his radar had me for a second but I pulled up and he lost it).  I came over the top and I got a lock tone on my ASRAAMs and fired, not totally feeling confident in the shot but he was coming up and took the missile in his face, ending the fight.

 

Takeaways: The settings I have to re-adjust so that I don't black out at every pull of the stick which really annoyed me given i hadn't done a DACT in a long time.  Fortunately the ASRAAM tracked and killed the Super Hornet or I probably would have taken a 9X.  The Typhoon as the videos show, can pull real tight and it makes the Typhoon a very tough customer in the knife fight, and fairly competent in the BVR arena as well.  Though after tweaking the G limit I'll probably be more focused on engaging rather than blacking out.