Submarines

[+WhiteBoySamurai]

Let's talk about submarines. I'm aware that there have been a few submarine models released long ago for SFgen1, but their weapons and detection systems were not modelled at all, and I really doubt they got much use. (I recall an Akula with nothing but an invisible deck gun... ಠ_ಠ) But I think we may have a way to better implement certain modern subs.

Here's my proof-of-concept: A Los Angeles class (that I whipped up last night) launching an UGM-84 Harpoon at a target over the horizon.

As you can see, the missile is actually emerging out of the ocean ahead of the ship, as it would when fired from a torpedo capsule.

It's actually a bit close to the ship (so I could take screenshots of the whole thing), but the launch point can easily be changed. If there's interest in attack subs like this, I'll skin up and release the LA. Virginia, Seawolf, and others wouldn't be too far behind. I'm not sure if "WarshipClass=SUBMARINE" is a valid entry, but maybe they can be assigned placeholder values and still get integrated into task forces.

As targets, subs would be kind of tricky. They can't submerge, of course, but that would make things unfair anyway. In testing the 688 so far, anti-ship missiles usually pass right over because they're so low in the water. I guess we could make simple ASW torpedoes as guided bombs. Ship- and sub-launched torpedoes might be possible, perhaps by making a cleverly positioned, very slow sea-skimming missile with a wake trail as its movement effect, but they might end up missing like ASMs anyway.

Any thoughts?

[+JonathanRL]

With SF2: NA, Anti-Ship mode can pretty much be turned into Anti-Submarine. I am trying to do this myself with TSF; and even launched a mission pack to that effect. I also got it working splendidly; just not in the campaigns.

 

As for ordinance, i think dept charges and ASW torpedoes as guided bombs is the right way to go.

[+Stary]

Ship- and sub-launched torpedoes might be possible, perhaps by making a cleverly positioned, very slow sea-skimming missile with a wake trail as its movement effect, but they might end up missing like ASMs anyway.

Any thoughts?

WBS, not being weapons systems modder and having very slim knowledge about how things works in the series (...and in real life) I think that's how it's been done since long time in SF series, WW2 installs had it somehow different IIRC to simulate earlier dumb torpedoes (tuned down guidance systems or something to that effect, so they weren't homing on target)

[+WhiteBoySamurai]

With SF2: NA, Anti-Ship mode can pretty much be turned into Anti-Submarine. I am trying to do this myself with TSF; and even launched a mission pack to that effect. I also got it working splendidly; just not in the campaigns.

 

Interesting! I guess the subs are labelled as cargo ships?

 

 

WBS, not being weapons systems modder and having very slim knowledge about how things works in the series (...and in real life) I think that's how it's been done since long time in SF series, WW2 installs had it somehow different IIRC to simulate earlier dumb torpedoes (tuned down guidance systems or something to that effect, so they weren't homing on target)

 

I haven't tried any of the WWII mods, but if they've got torpedoes working that way it's a good sign. I'll look into it and see if I can do the same thing with modern torps.

[+JonathanRL]

Interesting! I guess the subs are labelled as cargo ships?

 

Yes.

 

The main issue was that Anti-Ship Missions never triggered if your side did not have the iniative. Was screaming to TK for a Fix.

 

My reward? Having entire anti-ship in campaigns getting broken in latest patch ^^

[+Dave]

Can you make a invisble sub to simulate it being underwater then have it launch a tomahawk or harpoon? I woud think you would only have to make a periscope with weapons...If I am making any sense.

[Fubar512]

Can you make a invisble sub to simulate it being underwater then ahve it launch a tomahawk or harpoon? I woud think you would only have to make a periscope with weapons...IF I am making any sense.

Dude, that's already been available for like 5-6 years now

[+allenjb42]

http://combatace.com/files/file/1684-november-class-ssn-submerged/

[Fubar512]

[+whiteknight06604]

If a missile can be launched under water to break the surface, is there some way to make it stay under water to better simulate a torpedeo?

[Wrench]

the Mk.46 is available in the Atlatntic and Nimrod mods recently uploaded

[Fubar512]

Actually, if someone wants to make up a useful model, make one of a Juliett-class sub. It is period-correct (1970s-mid 1980s), It had to surface in order to deploy its 4 SS-N-12 ASMs, etc.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juliett_class_submarine

Edited March 30, 2012 by Fubar512

[Fubar512]

Here's a Third-Party model of a Juliett class at Subsim.com. Perhaps some interested party can contact the model's developer in regards to porting it over to LOD.

 

 

More images of this model: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1669245&postcount=139

Edited March 30, 2012 by Fubar512

[+Julhelm]

No, just no.

[Fubar512]

No, just no.

 

No?

[+WhiteBoySamurai]

I dunno, I kinda that Juliett class. Reminds me of some over-the-top G.I. Joe vehicle with pop-up spring-loaded missile launchers.

 

I got around to trying the Mk46 and other ASW torpedoes, and I think they work well enough. I was thinking, though, instead of/in addition to designating submarines as cargo ships, what about patrol boats? How does the game engine assign/spawn patrol boats in missions, exactly?

[+PureBlue]

I don't think the game uses the PATROL_BOAT types, yet.

The anti-ship mission only spawns CARGO_SHIP. And I don't get any randomness with them either, it's always the first alphabetically named CARGO_SHIP type folder.

From old discussions, 4 of these type could exist in an install and the game would randomize but I don't get that anymore. But this is another discussion..

 

For SF2NA, perhaps another way to use the Subs would be inserting them as TRANSPORT or other Warship type so they would be spawned in naval missions. But then we don't have control over that naval group formation, in Single Missions and the subs location could be obvious. Of course in campaigns this would be a viable technique..