DCS MiG-21bis has met its funding goal!

[+Dave 2,322]

Mock combat between german MiG-29 and american F-15C showed very different results.

 

That was F/A-18's.....and the F-15's record stands for it itself.

 

Well if there is a way to tweak them for individual or squadron use. I am not playing online with random morons. I either play with people I know or I am not playing. I have been to the public games and its full AMRAAM spammers and script kiddies.

[+SkateZilla 49]

make your own weapons pack?

[+SupGen 79]

Well Dave, as they say in NYC, not for nuthin', but...I think this is a major problem with ED and always has been. I got LOMAC (cheap!) a couple years ago and the pro-Russian bias was obvious. Not just air to air, either. Set up a naval encounter and let the AI fight it out...watch as every western anti-ship missile gets shot down, while if the western side is lucky they may get one of the Russian missiles...every western ship is sunk and none of the Russian ones. I just bought A-10C just to see what all the excitement was about, it seems pretty cool, (havn't actually played yet, still trying to set up a decent HOTAS profile) but if that same anti-western bias is there it might be a deal breaker for me. Just my two cents.

Edited August 29, 2012 by SupGen

[Ruggbutt 45]

To add to the above: T-80's will was a platoon of Abrams twice it's size. Also, russian APC's can destroy a platoon of Abrams it's own size.

 

And they wanna convince me to buy Combat Arms. Yeah right. When they get "it" right.

[+Stary 2,427]

Russian developers generally tend to be biased toward motherland...It's ok until someone decides to broaden his market outside of Russia. I thought Il2 was best example of it with all the fuzz (then) soviet planes were delivering to Luftwaffe superior ones, one of major problems I had with Sturmovik back then (FB era)

[+Gepard 11,213]

Russian developers tend always to made russian (soviet) birds, weapons tec better than they were in reality. And american developers do the same but with american technic. Look to SFP1, in game it was very easy to outcurve a MiG-21 with a F-104. In reality it never happend.

No need to worry about it.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Gepard

[+SkateZilla 49]

Well Dave, as they say in NYC, not for nuthin', but...I think this is a major problem with ED and always has been. I got LOMAC (cheap!) a couple years ago and the pro-Russian bias was obvious. Not just air to air, either. Set up a naval encounter and let the AI fight it out...watch as every western anti-ship missile gets shot down, while if the western side is lucky they may get one of the Russian missiles...every western ship is sunk and none of the Russian ones. I just bought A-10C just to see what all the excitement was about, it seems pretty cool, (havn't actually played yet, still trying to set up a decent HOTAS profile) but if that same anti-western bias is there it might be a deal breaker for me. Just my two cents.

 

If it's there, I dont notice it, because once the bad guys are in my sights, they are dead in seconds..

[JediMaster 451]

Part of it is data accessibility. These devs will only trust a certain narrow set of sources, and "outside" information will be treated with suspicion, skepticism, or derision. Russian devs get better data for Russian planes than Western, Western devs have better data on Western planes than Russian, etc. I too experienced the FM disparity. I was in full burner at 20,000 ft with nothing but IRM missiles and I couldn't catch a MiG-29, fully loaded without burner, at 1000 ft. Not only I couldn't catch it, it was pulling away from me going about 50% faster!

 

In Il-2, for example, Oleg went with "trusted Russian sources". That meant "captured Luftwaffe test data"...as recorded by Russian pilots who weren't trained on the planes, learning them as they go, flying planes in a dubious state of repair maintained by likewise untrained and making-it-up-as-they-go ground crew. Meanwhile, the Russian sources all date from the Stalin era where everyone lied about how good their stuff was and did to keep from going to the gulag or worse. Then the MP community started whining, and next thing you know EVERY plane was getting its FM changed, some multiple times! Yet somehow, from the beginning, it was as accurate as can be...yet then would get changed 3 times. Why is an accurate FM getting changed multiple times??

Most sims use manufacturer's published data simply to level the playing field. If everyone lies about how good their planes are, then everyone has the same stat boost and the planes will operate against each other as they should. Split from that and use captured test data here, manufacturer data there, and anecdotal data back here, and you get planes that historically had a 0-100 record overpowering every plane around them!

 

ROF has avoided that largely by not having any Russian planes in it, so every plane has that "no bias" applied to it. They have no emotional attachment to a Spad over an Albatross or vice versa.

 

Frankly I think ED should now stick to Russian planes or ones they have detailed data on like the A-10C and leave the Western planes to the 3rd party devs. But honestly the weapons are the big thing. While on paper the AA-12 looked better than the AMRAAM, the reality is they're not as reliable, they should be MORE susceptible to ECM than the AMRAAM, not less, and their aero performance should be at best equal to, not vastly superior.

[+SkateZilla 49]

So we need a Northern or Southern Company to Pop Up and develop a Sim.

[JediMaster 451]

Yeah! Lemme see that sim from McMurdo!!

[+Stary 2,427]

lol JM! That was good

 

Mig-21 question: does paying now allows one to participate in beta or something?

[JediMaster 451]

I've not been informed of that, but I'll recheck my emails. It locks in the price AFAIK, so if he winds up selling it @$25+ on release, I got it already for $20.

[+SkateZilla 49]

[JediMaster 451]

GA always does glowing work.

[+Julhelm 266]

f*** yeah!

[Boresight 51]

Well, I know this is some dig up of this thread, but I find very interesting.

About LOMAC (IIRC), played first time some 10 years ago or so. Only single-player and only with patch 1.01 I believe..

 

Regarding the pro Russian/Eastern equipments bias, it might be so in some aspects, however there were others not so.

 

- F-15 radar frequently lost lock. True.

- Trying to get on Mirage 2000 C's six o-clock, (to down it with guns) from my MiG-29 - VERY difficult.

 

Not being any kind of moder; developer; artist; etc. just an enthusiast, I trully believe either the M 2000 C, or the MiG-29 flight models were not much "acurate".

I mean, sometimes it even appeared easier to follow the Mirage's closed turns with the heavier Su-27, than with the MiG-29...

 

The Mirage's FM might be a little bit "steped up" maybe, however the MiG-29 appeared to lose speed and nose pitching authority easier than the Su-27.

 

Why I left LOMAC:

- Above mentioned, and even with the AI pilots agressivness / iniciative there were discrepancies - while the M 2000 C AI pilots did agile fast maneuvers, the F-16's ones were somewhat lazy considering they were flying an F-16.

 

Anyone feel free to comment. Thank you.

[JediMaster 451]

There were certainly inconsistencies with how some of the planes were modeled. If all you were doing was flying a plane on a ground attack mission, you didn't really notice, but take it up vs another plane and it could stick out.

 

I'm not sure how much of that from back then is still applicable to the current DCS World however.

[Carlos_Tex 2]

Russian developers tend always to made russian (soviet) birds, weapons tec better than they were in reality. And american developers do the same but with american technic. Look to SFP1, in game it was very easy to outcurve a MiG-21 with a F-104. In reality it never happend.

No need to worry about it.

 

I can agree with you to a certain extent up to the point where Russian Bias is being blatenly noticeable to the point of being just ridiculously exaggerated. I respect that they love their motherland but itis just too much. LOMAC was the perfect example. Someone mentioned AI naval combat in that game, and back in the day when i bought the game and noticed something was very wrong i did some tests like that. Went as far as a whole fleet of American ships against a single Admiral Kuznetsov carrier. All American ships sunk and Kuznetsov didn't take even one hit.

 

About SF series how about the uber MiG-17? And if TK is so biased why didn't he made the F-4's much more manouverable than the MiG-21's? Flying both with Thirdwire FM's i find it easier to score gun kills in the MiG-21 vs the F-4 than the other way around. I agree the F-104 is not very well modeled though.

 

I remember how difficult it was in Fleet Defender to shoot down MiG-29's and especially SU-27's. In that game developers even admit the historical inaccuracy of flying only B tomcats on scenarios that only the A was available. The Phoenixes do seem to be a bit stronger than they should in the earlier campaigns where only the A Phoenix was fielded.

 

Regarding your post about mock combats between MiG-29's and F-15's remember the israelis had a chance to use their DASH helmets and Python 4's with 90 degrees off boresight vs 45 degrees of their exported models R-73's. I do believe the Germans could even fly the MiG-29's better than the Russians could as they had much more flying hours. Let's not talk about BVR which is the culprit of people complaining (and being rightfully so) about AMRAAM usefulness in ED games/sims. I can sound biased too if i mention that Navy F-14D's managed to achieve victories vs the MiG-29's in the same exercises i previously mention. And at least there is footage that proves it.

 

And i very much agree with you, there's no need to worry too much about this.

[MigBuster 2,884]

About SF series how about the uber MiG-17? And if TK is so biased why didn't he made the F-4's much more manouverable than the MiG-21's? Flying both with Thirdwire FM's i find it easier to score gun kills in the MiG-21 vs the F-4 than the other way around. I agree the F-104 is not very well modeled though.

 

The Uber MiG-17/19s only came about ~2008 - and later they gained better all round vision.

 

Before that they were cannon fodder for anything - so TK probably got a lot of complaints that the AI were not a challenge - and because its a 'game' people got what they want. But it is nice to have challenge.