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10000$? I guess the answer would be "not enough for one skin guys, sorry" :smile:

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10000$? I guess the answer would be "not enough for one skin guys, sorry" :smile:

 

I think I will ask TK himself. As you know the DCS Mig-21 asked for 13.000$ (he raised more money than that) for a plane in a outstanding level of detail. If I can only know how much this community can raise...

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don't hype your hopes too high my friend, TK has yet to answer to Soulfreak's simple polite asking about Thirdwire's roadmap (I don't think he'll answer)

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Well I just send this mail to TK:

 

Dear Thirdwire managers.

 

I've been following TK since the old good EAW, then I moved to the first SF and all the titles until now. In the CombatAce community, we are discussing about a possible "raise funds to buy features" idea, using the kickstarter method. Making a poll to know which 3 or 4 main features will the community like to be added to the series, and then raise money to pay Thirdwire for developing them, so you can add as a expansion on the online shop. I'm pretty sure like the community can raise more than 10.000$ for a good pack of features like a new realistic mode with slewable radar cursors, or a helicopter type of FM like the ones in Operation Flash Point (collective to control the height, and the stick to control speed and heading). 3 or 4 of those features for 10.000 $ sounds like a good deal, but what you guys think about it??

 

Looking forward to your response.

 

Thanks. Jordi Haro Sancho "aka" Stratos.

 

One can always dream.

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Making a poll about the features we want

 

oh, yah. Absolutely, just what's needed over at 3rdWire, or even here.

Yet another useless poll of "things" some folks want, that takes up bandwidth, starts arguments, creates ill-will and bad feelings amongst community members. That, for all intents and purposes, will most likely never be implimented in-game.

Ain't we seen enough of them already, and seen their obvious results

 

There's plenty of stuff, for those of us that actually look inside The Engine ™, that haven't been implimented since Day 1, SFP1.

 

There are many of us that DO want to have some idea of the road ahead ... as Carlo posted at 3W. Just some inkling (sp?) of any major turns, twists or pitfalls. To find out if things we're working on, have worked on, or are planning on working on, won't turn into a festering dung-heap by some forthcoming patch or addon or simple error in coding.

Most of the time, it feels we're driving on a 1-lane, twisting mountain road at night, with no lights, painted over windows, half-flat tires, fading brakes and blindfolded.

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10k gets you, at best, a new player plane and cockpit. The hardcore features will cost an insane amount of money and dev time. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. The mission editor alone came close to shutting everything down. It's just hard for the average person to understand how s**tty it is to make flight simulators. Even budget ones like this.

 

As I've said before, which no one seems to listen, the stuff being worked on is:

 

SF for droid/win8/iOS (no, it's not linux code)

Exp 3 at some point

More DLCs

 

I'm not sure of the order except that DLC are mixed in with Droid Fighters.

And he's still patching the game.

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I just find the idea of "making our own game" plain stupid for 10.000 reasons

 

Extremely difficult, time consuming and uncertain, yes. Stupid is sitting around helpless bitching, whining and complaining about things instead of doing something in the event we can no longer mod and play as we like. We're not at that point yet thankfully, but if the day comes.........

Edited by eraser_tr
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10k gets you, at best, a new player plane and cockpit. The hardcore features will cost an insane amount of money and dev time. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. The mission editor alone came close to shutting everything down. It's just hard for the average person to understand how s**tty it is to make flight simulators. Even budget ones like this.

 

As I've said before, which no one seems to listen, the stuff being worked on is:

 

SF for droid/win8/iOS (no, it's not linux code)

Exp 3 at some point

More DLCs

 

I'm not sure of the order except that DLC are mixed in with Droid Fighters.

And he's still patching the game.

 

 

well thanks , this post vanished my hope of getting the slewable radar or/and air refueling on SF2

 

one day i will have the money and when i have it i will pay for TK the amount he want to implement those features

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One thing to consider about that DCS MiG-21 being made. He's not starting from scratch. Go on over to lockonfiles.com and you'll see about a year ago his most recent version for Flaming Cliffs2 was released. For free, yes, but the point is the leg work is done.

He's got a cockpit and 3D model, weapons, all that. He asked for another $13k to get the plane refined and updated to DCS levels. REFINED, not built from scratch to DCS levels. And he lives somewhere in Eastern Europe, I forget where exactly, where his costs aren't as high as someone in TX, that's for certain. So yeah, I guess it costs money. The exception I suppose would be an out-of-work modder living in a relative's basement with little in the way of costs who could probably do it cheaper, but how many of those are there?

 

And Dan, we all knew that's what's being worked on now, that wasn't the question. That's concrete, even if release dates or exact details aren't. The point is...and then? Once the mobile game and Exp 3 are done, with the DLC sprinkled around, where is he going? Is the open nature of it going to be scaled back farther and farther, with the DLC turning into "TW released mods" as the only option? Modders don't want to work on something for a year or more, release it, and 2 weeks later have a patch come out that not only breaks the mod but means it will NEVER work again because such-and-such has been cut off. If that's what's going to happen, say it now so the modders don't spin their wheels for nothing. They'll be a lot more upset if it's presented as a fait accompli with the September patch for example as opposed to being told TODAY "modders will lose access to XYZ". They'll be upset today, yes, but far less than in September!

 

Granting that we don't know what sales Exp 3 or the DLC will have, but hypothetically assuming they'll be on par with the previous ones, where is he going from there? An "SF3" seems ludicrous, as other than Exp 2 and NA there's been no new content for SF2, just SF1 stuff ported over, so it's apparent the time has come to leverage that work, not (hopefully) to toss it aside and once again start porting it all over. So we're anticipating that he's going to release new planes/theaters for SF2, pretty obvious thing to assume.

He's mooted a Korean War-era title for some time, will that be first up AFTER Exp 3 and the mobile? Will he go for Exp 4, for NA or Vietnam perhaps (since Israel and Europe got 1 each)? Will there be another full title like NA but differing from the Korean War?

 

Or is it simply "don't know"? If he simply has his sights set on the triad of Exp 3, DLC, and the mobile version, and hasn't seriously planned beyond that since it's going to take the rest of this year say, that's fine. He could just say "no plans set" or "always in motion is the future" or whatever. Perhaps that invites lots of unwanted suggestions he'd rather avoid, I don't know, but in this era it's common for customers to hope their wish lists are taken into consideration.

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One thing to consider about that DCS MiG-21 being made. He's not starting from scratch. Go on over to lockonfiles.com and you'll see about a year ago his most recent version for Flaming Cliffs2 was released. For free, yes, but the point is the leg work is done.

He's got a cockpit and 3D model, weapons, all that. He asked for another $13k to get the plane refined and updated to DCS levels. REFINED, not built from scratch to DCS levels. And he lives somewhere in Eastern Europe, I forget where exactly, where his costs aren't as high as someone in TX, that's for certain. So yeah, I guess it costs money. The exception I suppose would be an out-of-work modder living in a relative's basement with little in the way of costs who could probably do it cheaper, but how many of those are there?

 

And Dan, we all knew that's what's being worked on now, that wasn't the question. That's concrete, even if release dates or exact details aren't. The point is...and then? Once the mobile game and Exp 3 are done, with the DLC sprinkled around, where is he going? Is the open nature of it going to be scaled back farther and farther, with the DLC turning into "TW released mods" as the only option? Modders don't want to work on something for a year or more, release it, and 2 weeks later have a patch come out that not only breaks the mod but means it will NEVER work again because such-and-such has been cut off. If that's what's going to happen, say it now so the modders don't spin their wheels for nothing. They'll be a lot more upset if it's presented as a fait accompli with the September patch for example as opposed to being told TODAY "modders will lose access to XYZ". They'll be upset today, yes, but far less than in September!

 

Granting that we don't know what sales Exp 3 or the DLC will have, but hypothetically assuming they'll be on par with the previous ones, where is he going from there? An "SF3" seems ludicrous, as other than Exp 2 and NA there's been no new content for SF2, just SF1 stuff ported over, so it's apparent the time has come to leverage that work, not (hopefully) to toss it aside and once again start porting it all over. So we're anticipating that he's going to release new planes/theaters for SF2, pretty obvious thing to assume.

He's mooted a Korean War-era title for some time, will that be first up AFTER Exp 3 and the mobile? Will he go for Exp 4, for NA or Vietnam perhaps (since Israel and Europe got 1 each)? Will there be another full title like NA but differing from the Korean War?

 

Or is it simply "don't know"? If he simply has his sights set on the triad of Exp 3, DLC, and the mobile version, and hasn't seriously planned beyond that since it's going to take the rest of this year say, that's fine. He could just say "no plans set" or "always in motion is the future" or whatever. Perhaps that invites lots of unwanted suggestions he'd rather avoid, I don't know, but in this era it's common for customers to hope their wish lists are taken into consideration.

 

Yeah, alot of this is really communication. We're stuck speculating and fearing from what we've seen.

 

As far as locked files go, there's only so much that would be useful to steal. As we've seen last year, models. But things like text files and shaders or how to make terrain aren't particularly useful outside of modding for SF2.

 

As far as features, cost and code, has thirdwire really investigated what's out there for tools and code? From all the work, research and learning I've been doing to get my business off the ground, it just seems like thirdwire is making things out harder to be than it really is.

Edited by eraser_tr

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Carlo is still waiting for simple answer to simple question over there :bad:

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And Dan, we all knew that's what's being worked on now, that wasn't the question. That's concrete, even if release dates or exact details aren't. The point is...and then? Once the mobile game and Exp 3 are done, with the DLC sprinkled around, where is he going?

 

The answer is I don't know. I have no idea. Things change. I would assume that he keeps on chugging along like he has been. What chugging along means, I don't know. There's still lots of planes to do.

 

Is the open nature of it going to be scaled back farther and farther, with the DLC turning into "TW released mods" as the only option?

 

The game is very open as far as I can tell. None of the DLC that has been released (sans editors and stuff that involves coding) isn't anything that can't be done by the community. New planes and new skins can be created. And exactly just how much has been 'locked' and the stuff that has been 'locked', how much of that is for sale in DLC? I think the answer is none.

 

Modders don't want to work on something for a year or more, release it, and 2 weeks later have a patch come out that not only breaks the mod but means it will NEVER work again because such-and-such has been cut off. If that's what's going to happen, say it now so the modders don't spin their wheels for nothing.

 

That's just the risk you take when you mod a game. As a former modder that's put a ton of personal time into games that were crap back then and aren't even played today, I sympathize with anyone that works that hard on something that may or may not be used. But at the same time, I know that games aren't made exclusively just for modding, they are meant to be played. You choose to mod because you can and you want to. SF was mod friendly from the start and advertised as a mod friendly game and I disagree with anyone that thinks the game is no longer moddable.

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I disagree with anyone that thinks the game is no longer moddable

 

then why locking the shaders, why locking the clouds height (if you guys can't figure alpha channel sorting properly) so go unlock full content of IcelandNA cat :smile:

 

DanW out of curiousity, what titles were you modding back then? I'd love to have a look at some of those :yes:

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well, if I may be so bold as to suggest an aircraft for a possible DLC...and it would fit right in, given it's main adversery is already existant, and the game's base timeframe ...

 

F-86 Sabre (at least the slatted E and hard-wing F models)

 

 

(only because I know you work with Zur (The Great and Powerful) on his)

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Stratos when I missed Thirdwire bankruptcy?

Removal of their site files?

The definitive stop of SF series2 development?

The lack of patches and DLC?

 

Where is it coming from guys like you, seriously, this maniac dalusional call to "make our own* game"? Don't like SF2 as it evolved to this point? Don't play it. Simple.

 

*our own=presumably, in the minds of those rising this utterly complex idea again and again from some time: better, more moddable, open, glorious, smooth, awesome, crowds inspiring, DCS owning, awards winning

 

check how "simple project" Digital Fighters turned out so far after years of development, how Fighter Ops ended, notice we had zero progress from WTR since announcement (hope you're doing well Steven!)

 

I won't even go into that ridiculous "start making our own game and start modding it -then hire a programmer" thing

 

People here used to have more faith and proper perspective (me I admit, loose it from time to time for short period of time)

 

My point about "we can build it ourselves" was merely to illustrate the difficulty of building a new sim. ( Look up the word "sarcasm"..) Give a fella credit before jumping off the deepend with nothing but your own assumptions. Seriously, we all understand how much time, effort and money would be needed to build a new sim. As for me, I have voted with my wallet and posts on the 3W forum; I have bought everything in SF2 that has a WWII prop in it. This has resulted in SFNA2 being produced, a sim that has brought some of your finest commentary regarding the SF series, if I recall. Maniac? Delusional? Ridiculous? Get a grip dude, you're losing it again...

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Get a grip dude, you're losing it again...

(jeez, there's nothing like being hit with personal attack during morning coffe lecture of CA forums)

 

Far from that so get a grip yourself dude...take a sleep maybe

 

Also if you'd bother to re-read my post you'd find I wasn't aiming at you (at all) or Stratos that much, but the idea of building "our own sim". Say 500-1000 members jump on the wagon -how do you manage them? 900 of them with zero modding history or skills but 10000 ideas, often warring, donating real money for development (to who? how do you set base team?) Ever got cash in hand as been instructed "develop me this and this for yesterday!" Major Lee?

 

back on topic, do we have any release date info apart from "soon"?

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Guys, relax.

 

Got a answer from TK himself. Here it is. Same as DanW, wondering what will be a fair amount of money for those 3-4 features I'm requesting... Also, what should I say now? I think we can get 10000$ or even more from the community, of course If proper and desired features are added, but seems that will not be enough.

 

Imagen1-88.jpg

Edited by Stratos

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I dug my 2009-2010 level installs and keep them in safe place, just in case something way off with gameplay/moddibility (sp?) happens with one of future patches then

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well thanks , this post vanished my hope of getting the slewable radar or/and air refueling on SF2

 

one day i will have the money and when i have it i will pay for TK the amount he want to implement those features

 

TBH, a System that Incorporated a reverse Fuel Flow isnt that hard. We've have mods that do this already.

 

 

To make it more realistic, add a new system, and assign a key, and enable collision box linking, so you can actually connect to booms instead of flying through them. and simulate the coordinates similar to TailHook/Wires are simulated, once connected, initiate the transfer using the assigned key, which will start a reverse fuel flow system, while your normal engines are running.

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