Exp3 News! (no, not really)

[Stratos 3,177]

Is OK that TK plans to stop the PC simming development, what bothers me is that now we will neer have the upgrades we all always wanted.

[+ravenclaw_007 7,300]

i know how long it can take to make a new aircraft model and i believe that it can be very expensive if the one making it does so for business and even more so if we talk about cockpits but to say that a model for SF2 would cost more as for SF1 is insane , the work is still the same !!!!

and most of the aircraft in SF2 are from SF1 just with a smal update here and there

 

TK should say what he reale wants and stop playing always this cost card , i belive that developing a game is expensive no doubt about that but that what is going on here has nothing to do with cost and investment , he simply has enough from pc game and he should admit that

blaming moders and always the cost factor that stops him from coming up with something new , i dont believe that anymore

[FalconC45 157]

As I read Jedi's posts bout ads and stuff, I remember when SF1 came out, it had no ad support in pc gaming mags (or flight mags)..maybe a few on line articles about it. TK did.. what... one interview? Maybe he got screwed in the golden days and with the wally world thing but I think he distrusts the gaming industry. At first he was happy with our support but we are a demanding bunch. we want that or this. We got angry at him for "breaking" our mods every patch and we had few major blow outs right? The breaking point IMHO he just had it with the bitching and etc. I feel like I'm reliving the golden years of simming that its bubble burst again. I really thought his sim lite (with very realistic weapon behavior and very good dogfighting AI) will somewhat give us that feeling of supporting a company again faithfully. And we did for 10 years am I right here?

 

TK needs to understand that to make some REAL $ you need to get the word out, not relying on mouth to mouth suggestion. Maybe going on Steam's green light (War Thunder is trying it, but its a play-for-free, pay-to-get-cool-stuff, sim MMOG) would help him but its too late to suggest it. Its a shame too, the SF series, in my eyes, is a best sim for disabled gamers too. Ah well, lets hope he'll at least release the source code to the series.

 

Falcon

[Carlos_Tex 2]

final note: as for unauthorized code breaches/changes, believe me, in some time these will have to pop up (can't change human nature) so maybe Dave go to SimHQ and write a nice "forgive me" letter to mlracing, huh? I would but I'm banned there

 

I find that hard to believe Stary. Has anyone been able to decompile the code? Or are we talking about pure blind HEX editing (maybe not that blind)?

[+Stary 2,426]

don't ask me, I'm not the code guy, but if code development stops I bet it will happen

[SFP1Ace 33]

don't ask me, I'm not the code guy, but if code development stops I bet it will happen

 

+1, in such case SF series going the "Il-2 way" would be a logical conclusion. Provided there'd be ppl with sufficient skills to have a crack at it...

[+Stary 2,426]

SFP1Ace, I said in this forum several times I'd gladly hire a code guy who could break .TOD format so I could produce "real" custom shapes for cities, trees are ok for me as these are minus the transparency issues; that with additional level-of-detail implementation and few other things

 

that combined with reflective water for old terrain engine would cover the terrains visuals for a while I guess

(Julhelm already deducted how to add specular to tiles, now if we could make out how to add tile-specific normalmaps... it's in the _data.ini's texturestage. I think)

 

I think he simply got tired of it and that's it...fine with me, he does not owe me anything...

not to me

Edited February 25, 2013 by Stary

[+Gepard 10,434]

The most cost making point i think was the terrain engine for SF2NA, which was TK's loved child and which failed to meet the needs. Instead to update the old terrain engine to a newer and better one he invested a lot of money to make a completly new one. A simple management failure, because he cant get the money back.

Now he tries on the easy and simple way of mobile gaming by using already developed planes, objects and terrains. His decision.

 

I would not bet on Exp3.

[JediMaster 451]

The problem with being a tiny developer is indeed that you often have to live with whatever decisions you make, even if they were wrong. Does he wish he'd either not bothered (and done Iceland traditionally) or simply done it another way altogether? I don't know, but it's obvious he's not happy with how long it took. The only option is to try and make as much as possible off this investment ie making Exp3 and/or DLC for NA. NA has only 2 flyables stock, though, so that limits what he could do there.

Just cutting all PC work at this point is not going to recoup his costs.

[ArturR 17]

I agree with you Gepard here. Its weird that this new terrain engine is just one shot.

 

I get that he want to end PC developing but at least he could finish/fix North Atlantic.

 

TK always stated that red side aircrafts are no go for him, mostly because marketing reasons. Well that is another thing that I dont get it, so what was reason to making Lightings? Dont get me wrong I like these beasts but honestly they arent nowhere near popular as MiG-17/19/21/23. I can speak for myself but I bet most people bought Exp2 because of mission editor and Lightings were just bonus.

[+DanW 32]

i know how long it can take to make a new aircraft model and i believe that it can be very expensive if the one making it does so for business and even more so if we talk about cockpits but to say that a model for SF2 would cost more as for SF1 is insane , the work is still the same !!!!

and most of the aircraft in SF2 are from SF1 just with a smal update here and there

 

Why do you think it is insane?

• Larger textures require more detail
  
• More polygons take more time
  
• Specular mapping
  
• Bump mapping
  
• More detail in avionics
  
• 10 - 14 years from SF1 to F-14: Do you really think labor rates don't go up in a decade?
  

 

If the development costs go up and the labor rates go up, yet the sales and the prices of the games stay the same (remember these are budget games), common sense would dictate that you are making less money. It's really not that hard to grasp, I hope.

 

And another thing, you are only focusing on artwork since that is all you know. Exp 2 added the mission editor which took a long, long time to make - and almost put him under. F-14 took a long, long time to make with all kinds of new features - naval ops, terrain engine - which again, almost put him under. And the terrain engine needs a lot more time to be optimized and complete. It's just not very mature. But, you either lose your business or make compromises. This is the last thing I'll say.

[+Brain32 265]

labor rates go up

Not mine that's for sure, since 2008 onwards all I get is (much) less pay for more work and responsibility that's if I'm lucky enough to get some job. I don't know how things are in the gaming industry but I've been gettin' this sh** stuffed in my face all the time and I'm not the only one either, not to mention unemployment rates that are soaring for several years.

So yeah sorry if I don't believe labor is getting more expensive though it might be "my fault" by being born in Eastern Europe, people here work for peanuts and Chinese are still A LOT cheaper so we can't even get that...it's a freakin mess...

 

You should be very happy if TK is your boss, he obviously values other people's work unlike most employers.

[+Stary 2,426]

oh look DanW showed... oh look he's gone

[Carlos_Tex 2]

TK could be my boss too... Last year boss threatened us all he would move factory (multinational) to Poland if we did not accept changes on contracts (working 12 hours a day and money the same). Meanwhile we knew that in Poland workers there were threatened that factory would be moved to Portugal...

 

I better just grab woman and all my stuff and move to Texas...

 

As i'm light years away from the category i'll just a question to all the talented modders out here:

 

How many of you would officially collaborate with ThirdWire (content creation) for free, so that ThirdWire resources could be saved for other areas?

[+Stary 2,426]

if that would help Thirdwire make better situation and better final product, surely I would, for free

[Stratos 3,177]

Maybe we can make a deal with TK, and hire a guy that can crack and develope new things for the game? I think we can hire such guy with our donations.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545]

I thing its a good gesture to show up and post some infos, its a long time since we heart or read something from TK and Team.

 

@ DanW

 

Thank for those infos. We have not to forget, that we play, enjoy and mod this game in our free time. Its not our business. TK`s descision is ok, if this game / project, doesnt produce enough income for his company, so he had to switch on something that will pay of.

 

but why not start a "crowdfunding" project, with a "wishlist" ... I always expected to have something similar to my old ATF times. Lots of planes, nice organized Weaponload page and some decent avionics! So lets see what will come.

[Spinners 15,972]

... so what was reason to making Lightings? Dont get me wrong I like these beasts but honestly they arent nowhere near popular as MiG-17/19/21/23. I can speak for myself but I bet most people bought Exp2 because of mission editor and Lightings were just bonus.

 

That might depend on which side of the old 'Iron Curtain' you are...

[ArturR 17]

I meant that MiGs would make bigger sense in whole scheme, because they fit perfectly in SF: Vietnam/Israel with obvious reasons but even better in Europe given that Lightings were defense/bomber interceptor type fighter and MiGs were frontline fighters.

[+Stary 2,426]

ArturR's point is valid in also this sense that anyone who is anyhow into war planes knows what MiGs are but not certainly knows about Lightnings, TBH such was my case when I switched from Luftwaffe to cold war jets era

[Stratos 3,177]

but why not start a "crowdfunding" project, with a "wishlist" ... I always expected to have something similar to my old ATF times. Lots of planes, nice organized Weaponload page and some decent avionics! So lets see what will come.

 

I send a mail to TK asking exactly the same, he said the needed money is simply too much to get gathered by our small community. But as Stary said, maybe we can get money with "crowfunding", hire someone that can take a look and add the features of the wishlist?

[Murphy'S 15]

I send a mail to TK asking exactly the same, he said the needed money is simply too much to get gathered by our small community. But as Stary said, maybe we can get money with "crowfunding", hire someone that can take a look and add the features of the wishlist?

 

i don't think TK will bother to accept even one penny.

 

already suggested in the past, already declined........i think he wants to manage his thing without owing anything to anyone.

 

no i'm started to think sfp2 will end like falcon but without the permission of the creator....

[Stratos 3,177]

Is possible to do the same without TK permission?

[Murphy'S 15]

Is possible to do the same without TK permission?

 

if you are respectful of the copyright and intelectual property of course not.........

[+Stary 2,426]

Is possible to do the same without TK permission?

nope