Recommission battleship USS Iowa: Trump

[cood 3]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLj3S1CF_So

at 2 minutes, 57 seconds.

 

He's got my vote!

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Such a moron 

[+Typhoid 231]

heh heh

 

Having sailed on the Iowa and watched the firing of those magnificent guns, I think that I can say with confidence that as great as it might be to have a few of those ships back in service, the window of opportunity has gone and the difficulties of bringing one or more of those magnificent ships back is a bit more complicated than most people realize. 

 

a nice thread on recommissioning or building new ones -

 

http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/forums/64/Should-Battleships-Be-Back-In-Service

 

 

in the end it really isn't about what the equipment is or is not.  It is the will in the national leadership to use it, with a coherent strategy and the intestinal fortitude of the political leadership to actually stand behind the men and women they send to war and see it through - and also hugely important, the perception of our enemies of that will and capability. 

 

It doesn't matter how many battleships, carriers, fighters, tanks, armored brigades, etc., that are on OOB.  If those forces don't have the fuel, the ammunition, the trained personnel, and the guts of the leadership behind them, it doesn't matter. 

 

today, the Current Criminal Regime has no intellect, no strategy, no guts - and everyone in the rest of the world knows it. 

[Snailman 517]

Even though he said a lot of inspiring things (for US people) and some well known facts ...  I'm afraid he will be turned into another warmonger like McCain... just a feeling.
The other choice is the bitch... 
Not too promising outlooks.

 

But the reactivation of BBs is definitely a huge like. I support.

 

Btw how many of them are still (semi-)operational?  4 Iowas... somewhere.. North Carolina still in one piece but WW2 fitted... is there anymore?

[Wrench 9,865]

only the Iowas can be returned to service -- and that would take a long time (maybe 1 year or more, iirc). the others are too 'far gone' as museums to even be considered for refits

[+daddyairplanes 10,257]

By act of Congress, Iowa and Wisconsin are to be maintained so that they can be recommissioned if needed. However, no ones making the parts, so IF (pretty big damned IF) they were to be recommissioned, only one would go while the other became a parts bin.

 

More cost efficient is to convert a couple of container ships to carry 160 Tomahawks, a pair of rail guns and i'm sure you can find space to place a det of 2-4 AH-1Zs for recce, mid range defence and other odd jobs. Whats more is you change the profile of the ship minimally and max use of off platform sensors (most likely drones, satellite generated intel or EP-3) so electronically it looks like any other cintainer ship. But thats just my $0.02.

[Snailman 517]

By act of Congress, Iowa and Wisconsin are to be maintained so that they can be recommissioned if needed. However, no ones making the parts, so IF (pretty big damned IF) they were to be recommissioned, only one would go while the other became a parts bin.

 

More cost efficient is to convert a couple of container ships to carry 160 Tomahawks, a pair of rail guns and i'm sure you can find space to place a det of 2-4 AH-1Zs for recce, mid range defence and other odd jobs. Whats more is you change the profile of the ship minimally and max use of off platform sensors (most likely drones, satellite generated intel or EP-3) so electronically it looks like any other cintainer ship. But thats just my $0.02.

 

That makes sense also, but in a completely different role. The BB has in-being effect as a hard target (the hardest of all). A BB is the armoured warrior, the carrier is the longbow archer of the fleet. They can stop arrows but can't stop a warhammer)) 

 

The container ship would be just a missile platform like the russian combined system created 8-10 years ago, consist of container ships, disguised freight trains, container road trucks modified as for the Oniks, Granat and Klub cruise missiles organized with radar, satellite, and who know what kind of gadgets.

[Fubar512 1,350]

That makes sense also, but in a completely different role. The BB has in-being effect as a hard target (the hardest of all). A BB is the armoured warrior, the carrier is the longbow archer of the fleet. They can stop arrows but can't stop a warhammer)) 

 

The container ship would be just a missile platform like the russian combined system created 8-10 years ago, consist of container ships, disguised freight trains, container road trucks modified as for the Oniks, Granat and Klub cruise missiles organized with radar, satellite, and who know what kind of gadgets.

 

Back during the late 50s and early 60s, when the USN was seeking funding for the first Polaris SSBNs, the CIA allegedly commissioned a study which looked into the possibility of clandestinely fitting out a fleet of old cargo ships as Polaris missile launch platforms.

 

The idea was that they would each carry four to six missiles in silos mounted in the forward cargo compartments, and sail around conducting business (even going as far as delivering civilian cargo), until called upon to deploy their missiles.

 

Supposedly JFK was appalled at the concept of strategic launch platforms masquerading as civilian ships, and Admiral Hyman Rickover was outraged at the possibility of losing funding for the SSBN program. 

Edited September 17, 2015 by Fubar512

[JediMaster 451]

The problem with that idea is you make civilian ships into targets since the enemy can't tell them apart.

Ideally, you would need to make them look like the enemy's civilian ships.

[Snailman 517]

The problem with that idea is you make civilian ships into targets since the enemy can't tell them apart.

Ideally, you would need to make them look like the enemy's civilian ships.

 

It's not necessarily a bad idea, since that will force them to attack civilians. They can be condemned for war crimes later on. Also, demonizing the enemy helps to boost support for war. We tend to think with a military mind, not with a politician's. Never fair, the dark side is..

[+daddyairplanes 10,257]

Also in a major fight, all ships will become targets. It's why exclusion zones are declared now by those that care to ( mining of Hanoi/Haiphong, Falklands). General theory is that after a certain grace period (48hrs- a week) anyone left is fair game. Yes negates my earlier wolf in with sheep camo, but in reality the USN wont do that. Besides the main point of the arsenal ship is low cost and high rates of fire, not stealth.

 

Another idea for full on conflict however is to develop packages to go on merchant ships so every ship in a convoy contributes to the defence. A few with AA packages, a few with ASW packages, and a few carrying Harpoons. Not a large set up mind you as the main mission is still the cargo. But 6 ships in a convoy carrying 12 Patriots or other modular system boosts the convoys anti air by at least a third.

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

Having watched the video right through I have just got to say a few words.

 

Yes the guy is an idiot, but he's got my recommendation and I'll tell you why:

 

• Firstly he seems blatant, honest, passionate and a leader but not a politician, and tells you what he is going to do upfront, whereas most politicians lie to the electorate openly and have their own agendas and rarely keep their promises once elected.

     

• Immigration is a major problem in my country as it is in America. We have lots of foreign migrants in Britain who are coming over here to get onto the benefits system and claim for whatever they can get at the expense of the British taxpayer, and this needs to be stopped. If this guy can succeed at this in America and stop this, then it may point the way ahead for us here in Britain.      

 

• I like a guy who does not use a script and speaks openly from the heart instead of resorting to pre-arranged scripted words, sound-bites and statements.

 

• He mentioned drugs. This is a big problem in my country too. If this guy can kill the cross-border drug trade in America then it may show the world the way forward on this issue. Monitoring drug trafficing across the border from Mexico into America and standing around doing nothing because of political concerns will not solve this problem.

 

• He is the first guy in a long time that I have thought - Maybee this guy is actually capable of doing something instead of posturing and saying that he will do this and that. He seems a bit of a maverick and an outsider but he's got my recommendation. 

[Snailman 517]

These are or might be true.. partly agreed. But if he will not stop FED (JFK tried, but...), suppress the lobby autocracy and put an end to destructive and arrogant foreign politics (including economic war) ... there will no real change. He seems to be a individual who won't be a puppet... and mean enough to survive.  But we have to much expectations.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2015 by Snailman

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

These are or might be true.. partly agreed. But if he will not stop FED (JFK tried, but...), suppress the lobby autocracy and put an end to destructive and arrogant foreign politics (including economic war) ... there will no real change. He seems to be a individual who won't be a puppet... and mean enough to survive.  But we have to much expectations.

 

 

 

 

Okay fair comment Snailman, we will just have to wait and see if makes it to the Whitehouse first, then watch closely to see if he keeps his promises. Even though I can have no part in U.S. elections I am prepared to at least give the man a chance.

[Snailman 517]

Okay fair comment Snailman, we will just have to wait and see if makes it to the Whitehouse first, then watch closely to see if he keeps his promises. Even though I can have no part in U.S. elections I am prepared to at least give the man a chance.

 

 

The problem is that we don't have more chance... neither the time to experiment. Have to declare, if things won't change (not only US, but Europe and M.East too) that this was the last election made "democratically" by their rules...

same here in my country. Both sides of the Bipolar System have failed. In a honest election, neither of them can win without bribes and cheat. Time for the third side.

Enough of financial "crisis", staged violence, projected enemies, fake terrorists, economic colonization, media brainwashing, multi-culture, holy inquisition of "political-correctness" and of course hypocrite double standards. No people should be allowed to be above the laws and governments anymore.

The rat maybe larger, but finally the ants will eat it. Or, more lyrically,  the ship is above, but the sea has the power.

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

The problem is that we don't have more chance... neither the time to experiment. Have to declare, if things won't change (not only US, but Europe and M.East too) that this was the last election made "democratically" by their rules...

same here in my country. Both sides of the Bipolar System have failed. In a honest election, neither of them can win without bribes and cheat. Time for the third side.

Enough of financial "crisis", staged violence, projected enemies, fake terrorists, economic colonization, media brainwashing, multi-culture, holy inquisition of "political-correctness" and of course hypocrite double standards. No people should be allowed to be above the laws and governments anymore.

The rat maybe larger, but finally the ants will eat it. Or, more lyrically,  the ship is above, but the sea has the power.

 

 

I think that it is fair to say Snailman that you are passionate and idealogical about politics or shall we say - you have strong opinions about your country and the state of the world. And that is fine I respect that. Are you involved in politics at home.?

[+Typhoid 231]

<p>

 

Having watched the video right through I have just got to say a few words.

 

Yes the guy is an idiot, but he's got my recommendation and I'll tell you why:

 

• Firstly he seems blatant, honest, passionate and a leader but not a politician, and tells you what he is going to do upfront, whereas most politicians lie to the electorate openly and have their own agendas and rarely keep their promises once elected.

• Immigration is a major problem in my country as it is in America. We have lots of foreign migrants in Britain who are coming over here to get onto the benefits system and claim for whatever they can get at the expense of the British taxpayer, and this needs to be stopped. If this guy can succeed at this in America and stop this, then it may point the way ahead for us here in Britain.

• I like a guy who does not use a script and speaks openly from the heart instead of resorting to pre-arranged scripted words, sound-bites and statements.

• He mentioned drugs. This is a big problem in my country too. If this guy can kill the cross-border drug trade in America then it may show the world the way forward on this issue. Monitoring drug trafficing across the border from Mexico into America and standing around doing nothing because of political concerns will not solve this problem.

• He is the first guy in a long time that I have thought - Maybee this guy is actually capable of doing something instead of posturing and saying that he will do this and that. He seems a bit of a maverick and an outsider but he's got my recommendation.

The problem I have with Trump is that many of his positions now are the opposite of what they were before. He's just playing to the crowd. He's no more "authentic" than Hillary (puke, spit)

[Snailman 517]

I think that it is fair to say Snailman that you are passionate and idealogical about politics or shall we say - you have strong opinions about your country and the state of the world. And that is fine I respect that. Are you involved in politics at home.?

 

I'm a soldier, I must not. Well I'm not sure I ever want... I hate politicians. Of course I do have exemplars, mainly from our history. Patriotic crusaders, eccentric innovators, freedom fighters, cunning generals and of course wise kings. None of their philosophy is alive these days...  Perhaps you see why history forging is so important.

 

I usually have good laugh when people try to categorize me and put me into boxes with labels. How frustrated they are when, in the end I do not fit into any of their boxes))

 

Sometimes I feel that I am the kid from the space adventure cartoon, who with his home made (inflatable, LOL) spaceship arrives on a planar disc world, on which all life is happening in 2D. The 2D contour people cannot understand what is the 3rd dimension...

 

 

 

The heretic was brought in front of the 2D king, accused of believing in the existence of three dimensions

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

I'm a soldier, I must not. Well I'm not sure I ever want... I hate politicians. Of course I do have exemplars, mainly from our history. Patriotic crusaders, eccentric innovators, freedom fighters, cunning generals and of course wise kings. None of their philosophy is alive these days...  Perhaps you see why history forging is so important.

 

I usually have good laugh when people try to categorize me and put me into boxes with labels. How frustrated they are when, in the end I do not fit into any of their boxes))

 

Sometimes I feel that I am the kid from the space adventure cartoon, who with his home made (inflatable, LOL) spaceship arrives on a planar disc world, on which all life is happening in 2D. The 2D contour people cannot understand what is the 3rd dimension...

 

 

2Dworld.jpg

 

The heretic was brought in front of the 2D king, accused of believing in the existence of three dimensions

 

 

I see what you mean. The picture tells it all. My shift manager and his superior - the Warehouse manager where I work are exactly the same. I have been hauled in front of them both and reprimanded a couple of times for suggesting a different way of doing things. They are very much old school attitude, completely blinkered and focused on only one thing - do as I say even if it's wrong or right.!!!

The problem I have with Trump is that many of his positions now are the opposite of what they were before. He's just playing to the crowd. He's no more "authentic" than Hillary (puke, spit)

 

The question is - if Hillary Clinton gets in, will she do any better than Trump.!!

[+Menrva 4,202]

I'm not an American but I'm very interested in politics, from what I've seen I do not trust Trump. Anyone who proposes simple solutions to difficult problems only tries to play the biggest trick on history, by telling lies and such. Does anyone here remember how dictators like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and such got to power? With ideas like, let's erase the debt we have with the other countries, let's eliminate/remove/block those who oppose us, let's fight immigrants and/or foreigners who (all of them, according to such minds) bring crime and poverty.  

 

Of course I'm not comparing Trump to those dictators, those were serious while I do not think Trump really is, he doesn't seem to really believe in what he says (in the video he talks about the recommission of the USS Iowa by chance, or at least it's my impression). I'm not impressed at all that he is getting so much attention, the flock of sheeps always goes to the biggest voice, if you understand what I mean. I'm just wondering why he does want to become POTUS. It can't be just for power, there's something else, I feel.

 

I do not even take into account Hillary Clinton, so I'm more interested in Bernie Sanders. Ok, I know he is a socialist and that the word 'socialist' is almost like a cancer (for instance, in my country the Socialists brought the first big cases of corruption in politics), but it depends on the meaning one man, or the entire party, gives to that word.  For instance, Stalin claimed to be a Communist, the US addressed the Soviets as Commies, but in reality there is an ocean between the USSR and the utopian theories by Karl Marx and Engels.  

 

There is too much chaos IMHO, both here in Europe and in the US. I've almost reached the sad conclusion that democracy isn't always a good thing, Mussolini got to power thanks to lies and democracy, and brought shame to what is now my peaceful country. If you look at the news, there is stronger nationalism in many countries in Europe, new walls (Hungary for instance) which remind of the Berlin one, politicians/madmen who take advantage of real problems and give scapegoats to the more enraged and poorer population.

 

My apologies, I think I have strayed way too far from the thread's topic, but I'd like to know what others think about it, if we have to worry about the current situation or not. The politicians we used to have till today have obviously failed under many circumstances, but by giving power to new dictators we will just get five minutes of joy, and then subsequent years of senseless bloodshed.

[Snailman 517]

 

Does anyone here remember how dictators like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and such got to power? With ideas like, let's erase the debt we have with the other countries, let's eliminate/remove/block those who oppose us, let's fight immigrants and/or foreigners who (all of them, according to such minds) bring crime and poverty.

 

They have created their enemies (or collaborated with them) to appear as the good guy. Projected enemies. Old trick. We know. And staged fires/bombings... also old trick. Did by the Allies too, and ever since WW2.

 

 

 

I do not even take into account Hillary Clinton, so I'm more interested in Bernie Sanders. Ok, I know he is a socialist and that the word 'socialist' is almost like a cancer (for instance, in my country the Socialists brought the first big cases of corruption in politics), but it depends on the meaning one man, or the entire party, gives to that word.

 

Well, the so called left is in fact the same as liberal. Liberalism is today's communism, a de facto anarchism in the bad meaning. In politology the term for the government type Anarchy is the a stateless free society, one of the form of direct democracies (like communism, as it was invented to be) with more or less equal people. Native tribes or motorcycle gangs are like that. Here they confuse anarchy with disorder. Very different.

In fact they incite disorder, hostility and fear to rule over the chaos. They destroy nations, cultures, families, history to eliminate every possible forms of social defense or unity between people. To create a rootless, nationless, mixed, individualist mass of (preferably single) people.

Why? I can't answer that question, but perhaps Mr. George Orwell could...

 

 

The politicians we used to have till today have obviously failed under many circumstances, but by giving power to new dictators we will just get five minutes of joy, and then subsequent years of senseless bloodshed.

 

The politicians did not fail They have succeed. If not yet completely. As you see, there is already a dictatorship. The minorities' dictatorship. Everyone who is "not normal" (for example unable or refuse to integrate in the local culture and society) demands to have privileges, extra rights, free money, extra legal protection, extra social care or even impunity for crimes.

If any of these are denied, violated, revoked... criticized... they start crying loudly and yell discrimination, nazism, racism, intolerance etc etc.

Positive discrimination of the few is the negative discrimination of the many.

And I am certainly not speaking about helping and care for disabled or blind people here. You get it.

 

Senseless bloodshed? What's going on in Europe is already a that. A genocide. The violence of the 21th century is not conventional war, but slow, demographic and cultural death of nations. It has started generations ago, and the IS "refugee" invasion is just the top of the iceberg.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Snailman

[+Menrva 4,202]

They have created their enemies (or collaborated with them) to appear as the good guy. Projected enemies. Old trick. We know. And staged fires/bombings... also old trick. Did by the Allies too, and ever since WW2.

 

My apologies if I seemed prententious, I didn't want to give history lessons to anyone, of course.  I'm well aware of the other bad things which the said dictators did (for instance the Reichstag fire staged by the Nazis was one of the first cases of false flag operations IIRC).

 

In my post I was thinking more about the propaganda and the role that it played in gaining a wider audience. The stronger control of mass media (at that time the use of radios etc.) enabled the dictators to speak their truth in place of others who held other, real truths. Today's globalized world, or as Snailman stated, a rootless, nationless, individualist mass of (preferably single) people (I don't care about 'mixed', cause seriously some countries are already like that for almost a century), is drifted away from some problems, or at times is given other issues by the mass media (once here in Europe they were talking all about the Ebola crisis in Western Africa, now not even a notion of what is happening, even though that crisis is still on).

 

I agree with you Snailman, regarding how this world is getting (different cultures of each nation are disappearing), but I don't think it's just Anarchy, Communism, or whatever you want. The powers that be use whatever state system is in use to carry on its aims.  Hence why I said politicians did fail, they were like tools in the hands of the real, hidden rulers of this planet, not more different than soldiers in the hands of glory hound generals.  They probably succeeded for their own benefit, but failed for the common good, or at least at finding compromises for the majority of people, as you can't really fully do what a class of people asks/begs you to do. Now it's just a fight between 'dogs', the poor people here in The West without future or job, and the immigrants trying to find a new home here.

 

I said senseless bloodshed, because I do not want to see the horrors of WWII ever again, otherwise it's clear that the current situation is already a bloodshed, but that is the result of the West's aggressive foreign policy in the past years. I can't really blame who's coming here. Don't get me wrong though, while I criticise the wars done in the past, I don't understand why we are letting ISIS continue its conquest of the Middle East and possibly North Africa and Horn of Africa, while it is also gaining money and resources thanks to the control of human trafficking in the Mediterranean .  Well, actually I have an idea as to why this is happenening.

 

Thanks for replying btw, Snailman.  We might disagree about something as I still have little hopes in politics, or part of it, but I really like to discuss such matters and to understand them. Anyway you are right about Orwell, he gives most of the answers we all are in need of.

Edited September 21, 2015 by blaze95

[JediMaster 451]

The problem with every form of government is that it is run by humans. I think we've had sufficient time to prove we don't know WTF we're doing and can't do it well.

 

I won't pretend making a computer to run it would work, because they would be built and programmed by humans, so how is that different? Likewise, I can't pretend that people would accept governance by non-humans of any type, whether artificial, alien, genetically engineered, or cats.

 

It's a catch-22--we can't do it for ourselves, but we won't accept anyone else doing it.

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

The problem with every form of government is that it is run by humans. I think we've had sufficient time to prove we don't know WTF we're doing and can't do it well.

 

I won't pretend making a computer to run it would work, because they would be built and programmed by humans, so how is that different? Likewise, I can't pretend that people would accept governance by non-humans of any type, whether artificial, alien, genetically engineered, or cats.

 

It's a catch-22--we can't do it for ourselves, but we won't accept anyone else doing it.

 

 

I have to aggree that you are right, but as time goes by we learn by experience and perhaps in another 300 years or so we will either not be here or more importantly we will have learned to communicate with each-other properly and settle our differences through negotiation and dialogue. There is always hope. With every passing day the world is becoming much more interconnected, and as a result of this we are becoming more and more dependent on each-other for our survival. For an example - all of the nations on the world are threatened by the onset of climate change and the natural disasters which will inevitably occur if we do not tackle this issue as a whole, if the planet goes - we all go with it. There is no choice, either we all work together and get on-board with the solution or we all perish together. 

 

                                                                                        

[Snailman 517]

The problem with every form of government is that it is run by humans. I think we've had sufficient time to prove we don't know WTF we're doing and can't do it well.

 

That's the problem that they are not humans. At least that's what they believe. Gods, demigods, prophets, intouchables, superior race, chosen etc etc..  anything that gives them right to rule over the world...  Too much power in their hands, that means too much money.

Deprive them from their money and they will be mortals. That's our task to do.

To get all the miserable SOB who pulls the strings and attach them to other type of ... suspension, that more suits them.

 

Just a few thousand people... for our survival and peaceful future. Cruel? Inhumane? Unjust? Self righteous? May be.  But think about it... remember that they have already did that to us. Sacrificed thousands and millions. Our past and future. How many innocent have died already to incite us against each other? ... for them to feel like gods.

Onto the rope, all of them.