Tesla Model 3 nearly here

[MigBuster 2,863]

Yes am very tempted

 

 

 

[jeanba 1,917]

I want 4

[dsawan 613]

very sharp!

[+Trotski 833]

Nah...too many wheels  

[Atreides 144]

Yes am very tempted

 

 

Have already made a 1K  payment to reserve mine, can't wait.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Atreides

[+Coupi 4,290]

3 month ago I saw a TESLA Model S in Bordeaux Center.

 

Very beautiful car!

 

 

[MigBuster 2,863]

Have already made a 1K  payment to reserve mine, can't wait.

 

Lucky you!............even the baseline model does 0-60mph under 6 secs.................I really need one!

[Snailman 517]

The car is nice, of course, just a side note.

 

Alternative energy? Yes. Green? Definitely NO. Producing batteries is one of the most polluting and wasting industry ever. That is exactly what greenish pieces cannot understand when demonstrating against nuclear power. and simply you cannot solar panel a heavy industry or a metropolis.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Snailman

[MigBuster 2,863]

The car is nice, of course, just a side note.

 

Alternative energy? Yes. Green? Definitely NO. Producing batteries is one of the most polluting and wasting industry ever. That is exactly what greenish pieces cannot understand when demonstrating against nuclear power. and simply you cannot solar panel a heavy industry or a metropolis.

 

True...but its a massive improvement over the current cars that already need batteries, have more complex / less reliable piston engines and chuck out pollution on a massive global scale.

 

On top of that most should eventually (if you don't already) get far better reliability and performance from electric cars - without the oil and other filter change crap.

[+Gepard 10,433]

Batteries are rubbish! Loading time is much to long. When it becomes cold the capacity of batteries is decreasing significantly. May be that it works in California pretty well, but surely not in North and Central European winter.

 

If electrical powerd cars, then the only way is the "fuel cell". Fluid hydrogen.

[MigBuster 2,863]

Batteries are rubbish! Loading time is much to long. When it becomes cold the capacity of batteries is decreasing significantly. May be that it works in California pretty well, but surely not in North and Central European winter.

 

If electrical powerd cars, then the only way is the "fuel cell". Fluid hydrogen.

 

You are right...........typically the cold does degrade battery life........you need to power the heater etc

 

Problem is that a lot of resource is now going into engineering batteries that actually last.........it only needed something to motivate people.......and a mass produced popular car is one of those things............Tesla has been putting a lot into this (with Panasonic)

 

Nissan claim 300 miles on their new gen Leaf (due 2017?) .............if in 5 years you haven't got batteries that last over 1000 miles then come back to me. Just consider that my current car goes ~356 miles on a full tank. (I only use half that per week on average).

 

Electric cars wont be for everyone but potentially a large majority will switch.

 

 

If you forget to charge the car at home you might be reliant on a supercharger at a petrol station but currently it is minutes not hours to get enough charge to go somewhere. This also depends on the infrastructure being there........a better solution maybe a personal portable super charger of some kind in the future............likely someway round it if you manage it properly.

Edited April 1, 2016 by MigBuster

[+Gepard 10,433]

You know, that superchargers ruins a battery very fast?

The lifetime of a batteryblock is only 3 to 5 years. With continous use of superchargers you come down to 1 or 2 years. And a new battery pack for a car costs 10.000 Euro or more.

 

In 2011 the british automotive TV show Top Gear had an interesting episode:

 

http://www.topgear.com/videos/jeremy-clarkson/electric-cars-day-trip-part-12-series-17-episode-6

Edited April 1, 2016 by Gepard

[MigBuster 2,863]

You know, that superchargers ruins a battery very fast?

The lifetime of a batteryblock is only 3 to 5 years. With continous use of superchargers you come down to 1 or 2 years. And a new battery pack for a car costs 10.000 Euro or more.

 

In 2011 the british automotive TV show Top Gear had an interesting episode:

 

http://www.topgear.com/videos/jeremy-clarkson/electric-cars-day-trip-part-12-series-17-episode-6

 

You do realise Top Gear has been more about entertainment than fact since it revamped itself..............people don't watch it for facts they want to be entertained.

 

Like with computing too many people get stuck in the past..............Its not about how things were X years back its how things are now or will be with improvement........in 2011 things might have been like that.

 

Today I've read claims the Batteries should be good for around 10 years...........Tesla currently have an 8 year unlimited millage warranty on their battery pack. Yes it is (Currently) expensive to replace but the cost could come down massively in the next 8 years (assuming you want to keep the car) if the numbers are ramped up. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by MigBuster

[+Gepard 10,433]

You do realise Top Gear has been more about entertainment than fact since it revamped itself..............people don't watch it for facts they want to be entertained.

 

Like with computing too many people get stuck in the past..............Its not about how things were X years back its how things are now or will be with improvement........in 2011 things might have been like that.

 

Today I've read claims the Batteries should be good for around 10 years...........Tesla currently have an 8 year unlimited millage warranty on their battery pack. Yes it is (Currently) expensive to replace but the cost could come down massively in the next 8 years (assuming you want to keep the car) if the numbers are ramped up. 

 

Of course Top Gear was entertainment. This was the reason for the success of this show. But in case of batteries they are right. Its worth nothing.

 

First: The fact, that supercharging harms a batterie is not solved, and i think you cant solve it technically. The lifetime of a battery is long if you load it completly and then must you use it till it is completly "empty". Then you must load it completly and the game starts again.

But a completly empty battery in a car means, that you surely would end somewhere in the Pampa. So you are forced to reload a battery before it is completly empty and this is harming the lifetime of the battery. (You may make a self experiment with the accu of your smartphone.) And with supercharging you reduce the lifetime much faster. Then you will never reach the 8 years Tesla is offering.

Replacement is expensive. Very expensive.

 

Second: If all or the most cars would be electrical driven and the power source would be batteries then the electrical power networks of a nation would be overwhelmed very fast. This networks are not made for such ammounts of energy. They would become instable and break down. And by the way, how folks can reload their batteries when they have only a parkspace on the street? Should they throw a powerline out of their flat window? Or should the cities install loading station at every parkingplace? Who should pay for it?

 

Third: The resourcess for high tech batteries are not available everywhere. They would be transported around the whole world and this is neigther cost effective nor good for the nature. And after use this batteries are hazardous waste.

 

Forth: Battery driven cars are dangerous for rescuers (Firefighters, medical service) at car accidents.

 

Fifth: Electrical cars are dangerouse because they are to silent. There is no or less acustical warning for people and animals. An incrase of accident rate will come.

 

The 5th point is easy to overcome, but the other 4 are a real problem. If the electrical car is really the future, then the fuel cell is the best energy medium. It would need no big change in infrastructure. The petrol stations would get a new storagesystem, side by side with the systems for petrol, LPG gas or what ever is already in use. No big deal.

Battery driven cars need a major rebuild of the whole infrastructure.

[Atreides 144]

 

 

First: The fact, that supercharging harms a batterie is not solved, and i think you cant solve it technically. The lifetime of a battery is long if you load it completly and then must you use it till it is completly "empty". Then you must load it completly and the game starts again.

But a completly empty battery in a car means, that you surely would end somewhere in the Pampa. So you are forced to reload a battery before it is completly empty and this is harming the lifetime of the battery. (You may make a self experiment with the accu of your smartphone.) And with supercharging you reduce the lifetime much faster. 

  Nonsense, my  dad owns a 2014 Tesla Model S, that Top Gear claim was pertaining to the older Tesla's, with the current superchargers there is no impact to their batteries as they've been designed with supercharging in mind.  All of the battery claims that you've put down are outdated and misleading.

 

  Tesla's current gen of batteries do not suffer from the negative that you've mentioned.  Not to mention on our Tesla S the battery is warrantied by Tesla for 10 yrs with zero cost to my dad, my Tesla 3 when I get my delivery (probably 2019) will also have it's battery warrantied for 10 yrs with zero cost to me.

 

  I currently drive a leased 2016 Chevy Volt hybrid and the gas savings with that car alone in a metropolitan area and bumper to bumper highway "driving "have been tremendous. Add to that, that I can drive in HOV (high occupancy vehicle) lanes on the highway with my hybrid or our tesla with just me in the car, as the HOV rules don't apply to green vehicles, and it's hilarious to blow past pickup trucks, SUV's, and other cars who're stuck in bumper to bumper on the highway while there are just 10-15 cars in my lane, given the nature of north american driving, and very few people car pooling.

 

  Naysayers of electric cars can do whatever mental gymnastics they want to, but the fact is that electric cars are here, they're the future, deal with it.  Seriously, our Tesla S destroys most cars in flat out  performance due to the nature of the electric motors insane levels of torque and acceleration 0-100 kph in 3.5 seconds.  Weeee !

Edited April 2, 2016 by Atreides

[MigBuster 2,863]

Of course Top Gear was entertainment. This was the reason for the success of this show. But in case of batteries they are right. Its worth nothing.

 

 

 

Do you know what else is worth "nothing" Gepard....your assumptions and total misinformation based on how things were and your total ignorance! 

 

I'm not interested in your continued drivel ......either contribute with some facts based in reality or shut up please.  

[+Gepard 10,433]

Do you know what else is worth "nothing" Gepard....your assumptions and total misinformation based on how things were and your total ignorance! 

 

I'm not interested in your continued drivel ......either contribute with some facts based in reality or shut up please.  

 

You call my statements drivel and yourself give away only Teslas glamour advertisements?

LOL

 

The future will show who is right. Teslas dead end devolpment or the fuel cell technology.

In 10 years we may talk again.  

[Atreides 144]

 Teslas dead end devolpment.

I found a gif earlier to best illustrate  your aforementioned mental gymnastics, but by calling it a dead end development I believe this new one is far more appropriate an example of your post.      

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by Atreides

[+Gepard 10,433]

Nice gif. Really. I love it.

I hope your enthusiasm for the Tesla will not end like the girl in the gif.

 

Wait till you have your Tesla in 3, 4 years. Drive it for some years and then you will remember my words, when the range you can drive with one full loaded battery becomes shorter and shorter.

 

You mentioned Hybrid cars. A colleague of me drives a Prius for some years. He had a fuel consumtion of 6.5 liters/100 km. My Peugeot 2008 i drive between 5.1 and 5.5 liters/100/km (depends on weather, temperature etc). The Peugeot (no hybrid, no Diesel car, ordinary petrol engine using pertrol of  E10 quality) is more then 10% better in fuel economy than the highly praised Prius.

You praise the Tesla for outstanding acceleration. I will say no words against it. Without gear box you push the button and the car starts like a rocket. Its impressive. Truely. But what is the speed limit on your streets? 60 miles/hour? ~100 km/h?

Come to Germany and see what freedom of the streets means. No speed limit!

Some foreigners become a little bit pale in face when they sit the first time in a car which is swimming in a 150km/h traffic on an Autobahn.

 

As american you has an other point of view on cars, then me as european or especially german. For me is quality important, reliability, fuel efficency. Americans like power and glamour. Quality reliability and fuel efficency are in the USA of less importance.

Tesla build cars following the american way. Maybe, that it will have success in the USA. But in Europe the Tesla will fail, like american muscle cars or street cruisers, Hummers or Trucks.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Gepard

[Toryu 156]

 

(You may make a self experiment with the accu of your smartphone.)

 

I have done that for years - it has never been an issue. My smartphones usually are replaced because of software obsolescence and taking 30s to open an app.

 

 

 

You mentioned Hybrid cars. A colleague of me drives a Prius for some years. He had a fuel consumtion of 6.5 liters/100 km. My Peugeot 2008 i drive between 5.1 and 5.5 liters/100/km (depends on weather, temperature etc). The Peugeot (no hybrid, no Diesel car, ordinary petrol engine using pertrol of  E10 quality) is more then 10% better in fuel economy than the highly praised Prius.

 

How does he drive the car? I can drive my Polo so that it sips 5.5l/100km, but I can also make it drown, using 10+.

My coworker's nieces's brother-in-law usually drives like shit. Most people do anyway.

 

 

You praise the Tesla for outstanding acceleration. I will say no words against it. Without gear box you push the button and the car starts like a rocket. Its impressive. Truely. But what is the speed limit on your streets? 60 miles/hour? ~100 km/h?

Come to Germany and see what freedom of the streets means. No speed limit!

Some foreigners become a little bit pale in face when they sit the first time in a car which is swimming in a 150km/h traffic on an Autobahn.

 

What's the point?

P ~ (v^3) - you can do the maths on your own.

On the freeway, people usually go 75-80mph, which isn't significantly slower than average speed on God's own Autobahn.

 

 

 

As american you has an other point of view on cars, then me as european or especially german. For me is quality important, reliability, fuel efficency. Americans like power and glamour. Quality reliability and fuel efficency are in the USA of less importance.

 

Have you ever sat in a Tesla at all?

The car is pretty amazing, even when being used to the bull$hit-talk of the german automobile-lobby, claiming how I should pay extra for "premium stuff" that japanese car-makers had installed on stock since 25 years.

 

Have you ever been to America, or even driven a car there? You should - it's positively awesome. Little to no road-rage and people are way more laid-back than what you usually experience in common traffic in Germany (which is best described as "civil war on wheels" to the casual foreigner).

"Quality" (as in "shiny on the outside, shabby on the inside" - see the latest pollution-scandal) isn't important to Americans, however reliability is. Big time. Americans are more concerned about a practical car than driving around a dick-enlarger as most Germans do. I always like it when people drive around their AUDI/ BMW / Merc with the engine-model taken off the trunk, so nobody knows they can only afford to buy the weakest engine, but want to show-off like a big guy.

 

With a full tank being around 20$ (yes, depending on tank-size), I wouldn't be that concerned about gas-mileage either - most of the money on a gas-station in Germany goes to the greedy and incompetent government anyway. 

 

 

Tesla build cars following the american way. Maybe, that it will have success in the USA. But in Europe the Tesla will fail, like american muscle cars or street cruisers, Hummers or Trucks.

 

I have seen enough Tesla S (which is an upper-class car) in Germany, to have your hypothesis falsified. 

[MigBuster 2,863]

 

 

 

 

Wait till you have your Tesla in 3, 4 years. Drive it for some years and then you will remember my words, when the range you can drive with one full loaded battery becomes shorter and shorter.

I won't take your word for it because you have been proven pretty much clueless on the subject so far....

 

 

 

You mentioned Hybrid cars. A colleague of me drives a Prius for some years. He had a fuel consumtion of 6.5 liters/100 km. My Peugeot 2008 i drive between 5.1 and 5.5 liters/100/km (depends on weather, temperature etc). The Peugeot (no hybrid, no Diesel car, ordinary petrol engine using pertrol of  E10 quality) is more then 10% better in fuel economy than the highly praised Prius.

That might actually be correct (shock) but a hybrid is not a pure electric car...........pure electrics have about 0 litres fuel consumption themselves.

 

 

 

You praise the Tesla for outstanding acceleration. I will say no words against it. Without gear box you push the button and the car starts like a rocket. Its impressive. Truely. But what is the speed limit on your streets? 60 miles/hour? ~100 km/h?

 

 

You are perhaps getting confused between top end speed and acceleration....when it comes to performance acceleration is all that matters. 

 

 

 

 

 

As american you has an other point of view on cars, then me as european or especially german. For me is quality important, reliability, fuel efficency. Americans like power and glamour. Quality reliability and fuel efficency are in the USA of less importance.

Tesla build cars following the american way. Maybe, that it will have success in the USA. But in Europe the Tesla will fail, like american muscle cars or street cruisers, Hummers or Trucks.

 

Way to go with the racial stereotypes.....definitely a way to base your useless assumptions on.........kinda see where you might be going wrong 

 

How about a car that takes no fuel.....hows that for efficient....as for reliability well  

 

Don't worry BMW are already trying to catch up Tesla regarding Electric cars so there will be one of those just for you........you can put a speaker on the outside so it goes brrruumm brumm and makes you stay in your 1970s comfort zone.

Edited April 3, 2016 by MigBuster

[Atreides 144]

 end like the girl in the gif.

 

 

 

They won't.  It's your critique if one can call it that that tumbles like the fatso in the gif.

 

 

A colleague of me drives a Prius for some years. 

Which year ?  Yes the year makes a difference cause manufactures are constantly improving the tech.  My 2016 Chevy Volt's better than a 2015 Volt and there's a marked improvement in mileage and one's driving style also factors into mileage.  I used to have a lead foot back when I had a BMW 335ci (don't know what it's called in Germany) but having transitioned to the Volt I drive it far more conservatively.

 

especially german. For me is quality important, reliability, 

First of all I'm a maple syrup slurping Canadian and second of all it's an absolute riot to hear a German talk about reliability given the VW/Audi emissions scandal, word in the auto sector is that BMW is the next target.  The only one NOT the target is Mercedes since their diesel cars use a urea filter which the previous two claimed they didn't need.  I'm not picking on you, my brother's an engineer at Audi in Ingolstadt and I give him the same amount of grief.  

 

Furthermore, I've been to your Autobahn 8 times in just 2 years and cant even be bothered to count the times in the last decade, I know you Germans think us North Americans live in a bubble and while that might be true to a certain extent, my dad has worked with Airbus extensively in purchasing aircraft for them for Emirates and the Royal family of Abu Dhabi, heck he was even given security clearance to the plant where the A380 is assembled.

 

I need to say this so that you know I'm not an ignorant Canadian (if I didn't tell you how would you) I've traveled round the bloody globe 3 times, have lived in enough countries from the middle east to the far east to western europe that I've gone through 9 passports because they ran out of visa stamps.  I've kept all of those passports as a travelers badge of honour, and yes I spelled honour with a "u",   the RIGHT way.

.you can put a speaker on the outside so it goes brrruumm brumm and makes you stay in your 1970s comfort zone.

     

Edited April 3, 2016 by Atreides

[Atreides 144]

 

I have seen enough Tesla S (which is an upper-class car) in Germany, to have your hypothesis falsified. 

I'll second that, my Volts interior looks absolutely low tech compared to my dad's Tesla Model S, you really feel like you're driving in a goddamn hover vehicle in the Tesla.  Their noise damping and special noise damping tires really do make a difference.  My Volts got noise damping tires but since it doesn't have a battery like the Tesla Chevy had to compromise on "heavier" noise damping materials to extend battery range.

[Fubar512 1,350]

 Quality reliability and fuel efficency are in the USA of less importance.

 

 

Michael, you've missed your calling as a comedian. Notice where BMW, Mercedes, and VW land on the chart below. And please don't try arguing with me, as I have been turning wrenches on cars and motor-coaches professionally on and off since the mid-1970s.  The power-trains on the current crop of US-built cars are good for between 300,000 and 1,000,000 KM.  They don't eat expensive ($4,800.00)  fuel injection pumps every 120K km like VW diesels are prone to do.

 

BMW and Mercedes were industry leaders when it came to reliability 20+ years ago, but that is no longer true, as modern Mercedes are known for being money pits after just a few years, and BMWs are infamous for causing their owners to have to shell out $3000 US at a dealer for the most routine of services, once they are off lease or warranty.

 

 

 

 

 

[JediMaster 451]

I'll admit I'm surprised to see Suzuki so far up there. I barely see any of them around, their sales can't be that spectacular, but that indicates their sales aren't due to people being annoyed with their quality.