Independence Day

[Peugeot205 2,745]

 

 The E.U. is now in stormy waters, and that's good news. 

 

Yes , stormy waters, perfect news my friend, populism everywhere!!! (UKIP, FN, Podemos, M5S........) . If someone believes in magic and drastic solutions , he should return to kindergarden and start shaping his brain again.

[Toryu 156]

Taken from the comment-section of a Guardian-article:

 

 

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

 

Needless to say - I like it. 

[+Menrva 4,202]

Yes , stormy waters, perfect news my friend, populism everywhere!!! (UKIP, FN, Podemos, M5S........) . If someone believes in magic and drastic solutions , he should return to kindergarden and start shaping his brain again.

 

Just to reassure you, FRPignon, the M5S is not so populist. I can tell you 'cause I am Italian, and there is a worse populist party, thank God not that big yet. At least in Italy, things are not looking so bad in this regard, and its rather strange I might add, considering my country's past.

Edited June 26, 2016 by blaze95

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

Britexit, =  simple equasion =  if it's not working for you then get the hell out, and that's what we have done.!!!!!

[Eole 1,032]

Britexit, =  simple equasion =  if it's not working for you then get the hell out, and that's what we have done.!!!!!

It's working for us now if you can speed up the thing .. thank you in advance

[Toryu 156]

 

Britexit, =  simple equasion =  if it's not working for you then get the hell out, and that's what we have done.!!!!!

 

 

Last time I checked, you were still in.

Now put your money where your mouth is and declare Art 50.

[RUSTYMORLEY 162]

It's working for us now if you can speed up the thing .. thank you in advance

 

 

If we could have had a cap on migrant numbers I would have elected to stay in Europe, I don't have a problem with being part of Europe it's just that we can't continue to absorb the phenomenal amount of migrants who want to come to Britain to settle and get on the benefits gravy train and also get access to free NHS care and treatment. It's not sustainable. 

[Eole 1,032]

As usual always the fault of the others, EU , now France tomorrow Germany ? ... For the migrants : the new UK/UE frontier will be Douvres and not Calais , so I guess you will be able to do the job by yourself 

Edited June 26, 2016 by Eole

[Toryu 156]

"Democracy" - more like demagogueraphy:

https://eatseehearcardiff.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/a-remainer-in-the-belly-of-the-brexit-beast/

[ShrikeHawk 384]

So much ado about "Article 50" as though triggering it was to unleash a country-killer. It's nothing more than the process of leaving the EU. A structure for establishing new trade deals. That's it. It's not some menacing bogeyman.

 

We do all realize it's possible to trade without a trade deal, yes?

 

What do you want to bet I could order an book from the UK and it would be delivered to me here in the US. Gads! Is that legal? How could I receive that item without a trade deal?

 

There's much talk about globalization, and there is a lot of it these days. Borders are fuzzy in the modern internet market. If people or businesses want to trade with someone in another country, they just do it. There's no need to sit on our hands and whine about the lack of a trade deal. So this towering spectre of the dreaded "Article 50" is nothing more than a miniscule pebble in the road blocking the path of a capitalism's fully loaded, heavy-weight truck.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Just to reassure you, FRPignon, the M5S is not so populist. I can tell you 'cause I am Italian, and there is a worse populist party, thank God not that big yet. At least in Italy, things are not looking so bad in this regard, and its rather strange I might add, considering my country's past.

You know.. French papers. As long as a party isn't socialist or liberal, it's fascism.

Also that kind of guy prefer to launch labels and political insults rather than focusing on why new movements are on the rise and offering solutions which are not suicidal or slogans.

 

AS for "the E.U. is working  : oh, yes? How is it defending its border right now? How is it defending itself against geopolitical threats in the east and south? The only things it does is to bow to Merkel's whims.

The E.U. is dying and now it's time for a radical reshapping or final dissolution.

[ShrikeHawk 384]

I should hope everyone can watch the following documentary to understand why leaving the EU is a good thing.

 

 

[Stratos 3,192]

Just to reassure you, FRPignon, the M5S is not so populist. I can tell you 'cause I am Italian, and there is a worse populist party, thank God not that big yet. At least in Italy, things are not looking so bad in this regard, and its rather strange I might add, considering my country's past.

 

Neither is Podemos, even if the traditional parties want to sell us that shit as they are scared of losing their seats and our money.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Love Europe..hate the EU

 

I'm watching a tired, bloated Whale that is the EU..swimming blindly and beaching itself. It's a failed experiment, and it's hilarious reading the comments of our American Cousins, who if presented with joining an equivalent of the EU..would be grabbing their guns, and rioting in the street.

Don't worry about us..we've got it covered...I'd worry about lunatics walking around with Assault Weapons..and the Orange Jizztrumpet with the dead ferret on his head you're possibly going to elect as president if i was you!! 

Edited June 26, 2016 by UK_Widowmaker

[Toryu 156]

 

It's a failed experiment, and it's hilarious reading the comments of our American Cousins, who if presented with joining an equivalent of the EU..would be grabbing their guns, and rioting in the street.

 

Well, maybe you should look deeper at the balance between the states and the union in the US of A.

Not too different to the EU.

 

 

..and the Orange Jizztrumpet with the dead ferret on his head you're possibly going to elect as president if i was you!!

 

[MigBuster 2,884]

I should hope everyone can watch the following documentary to understand why leaving the EU is a good thing.

 

 

 

It is a very convincing video for the Pro Brexit side for sure...........makes out the EU economic model is an inflexible, stagnant, bureaucracy which is holding back growth and thus there is a far better future looking to the rest of the world and not be stuck in the past looking to one of the sick economies (the EU) of the world.

 

Using Switzerland as an example of a very rich European country outside the EU is probably a good indicator of the opportunity out there with far less regulation on industry and commerce.

 

It is interesting that the the small minority that want a second referendum look like they are in fact the ones looking to hold on to a rotten past when the future could be global.......again.

 

Anyway at least the video makes things sound a bit more optimistic. 

 

 

Did someone mention NATO?............. nothing to do with EU membership so pretty much nothing changes...........that's right both UK and EU members will still need the USA to take out any Soviet era IADS in 3rd world countries before the rest of the EU can safely fly in. 

[+Menrva 4,202]

Did someone mention NATO?............. nothing to do with EU membership so pretty much nothing changes...........that's right both UK and EU members will still need the USA to take out any Soviet era IADS in 3rd world countries before the rest of the EU can safely fly in. 

 

I did, and of course I know it has nothing to do with the EU membership. I was just wondering why the UK is not leaving NATO too; a British general, don't remember his name, once mentioned that he would like to see a NATO-free Great Britain. That's what I don't understand, some people voted "leave" because they want to make Great Britain great again (does it ring any bells? Trump anyone?). It feels like some political parties want to return to 1900 or worse, when we "civilised" Europeans believed to be the superior race that had the right to tear apart Africa, the Americas and the Middle East, for natural resources and other "duties". Today's world is different, it's globalized. Some think it's good, some think it's not, but this is the situation. I can't even think of my country alone as a competitor to giants like China, India, Russia, and many others. Maybe the UK will make it, maybe not. It's their choice. I am only wishing that their choice won't have tragic consequences for other European countries.

Edited June 26, 2016 by blaze95

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I did, and of course I know it has nothing to do with the EU membership. I was just wondering why the UK is not leaving NATO too; a British general, don't remember his name, once mentioned that he would like to see a NATO-free Great Britain. That's what I don't understand, some people voted "leave" because they want to make Great Britain great again (does it ring any bells? Trump anyone?). It feels like some political parties want to return to 1900 or worse, when we "civilised" Europeans believed to be the superior race that had the right to tear apart Africa, the Americas and the Middle East, for natural resources and other "duties". Today's world is different, it's globalized. Some think it's good, some think it's not, but this is the situation. I can't even think of my country alone as a competitor to giants like China, India, Russia, and many others. Maybe the UK will make it, maybe not. It's their choice. I am only wishing that their choice won't have tragic consequences for other European countries.

 

It's not really about making Britain Great again..it's more about trying to make it less shitty..which it was whilst festering in a Communist Bloc...which even Gorbachev refered to it as. "The EU is like Soviet Russia, but wearing a suit"...got it spot on in my opinion

Well, maybe you should look deeper at the balance between the states and the union in the US of A.

Not too different to the EU.

 

 

 

 

It's very different indeed...the States are made up of American's...not 27 different Countries.

How do you think Americans would feel, if they grew up, in a Union with Canada..where they paid $20Billion a year to Ontario...who gave them back about 1/3 in a rebate per year, told you what you can and cannot spend it on..and makes/changes your laws (such as banning guns completely?

 

Sound awful?...welcome to the EU

[ShrikeHawk 384]

It's not really about making Britain Great again..it's more about trying to make it less shitty..which it was whilst festering in a Communist Bloc...which even Gorbachev refered to it as. "The EU is like Soviet Russia, but wearing a suit"...got it spot on in my opinion

 

It's very different indeed...the States are made up of American's...not 27 different Countries.

How do you think Americans would feel, if they grew up, in a Union with Canada..where they paid $20Billion a year to Ontario...who gave them back about 1/3 in a rebate per year, told you what you can and cannot spend it on..and makes/changes your laws (such as banning guns completely?

 

Sound awful?...welcome to the EU

 

That's the thing that struck me at the beginning of the Brexit documentary. No representation in government? No self-determination? Nanny-State government controlling everything? Where's my gun? It's time to revolt! Americans wouldn't put up with this Communist system for more than a second without beginning an armed rebellion.

 

In the documentary, we learned there's an ultra-modern shopping mall paid for by EU membership dues, but only EU officials get to use it. Seriously? My soft-spoken, gentle-hearted wife started screaming at the TV. Luckily, my gun was safely locked away, or I would have shot the TV!

 

I for one, support Britain's decision. I think it's the right call. It's the decision most Americans would make in the same situation.

[+Menrva 4,202]

It's not really about making Britain Great again..it's more about trying to make it less shitty..which it was whilst festering in a Communist Bloc...which even Gorbachev refered to it as. "The EU is like Soviet Russia, but wearing a suit"...got it spot on in my opinion

 

I said "some people". I know there have been others like you who have voted with more precise ideals in mind.

[Toryu 156]

 

It's very different indeed...the States are made up of American's...not 27 different Countries.

How do you think Americans would feel, if they grew up, in a Union with Canada..where they paid $20Billion a year to Ontario...who gave them back about 1/3 in a rebate per year, told you what you can and cannot spend it on..and makes/changes your laws (such as banning guns completely?

 

Bit of a skewed picture, you're representing:

 

The US of A consists of 50 states, plus several overseas-territories.

Each state has their own laws (that even goes down to counties) and all states are united under the union, which provides the law-framework. Also, all states have their own government and administration, which is represented in the union by congressmen/ women and senators. Just like any EU country is represented in Brussles and Strasbourg.

 

Also, America is a country firmly based on immigration. There's so such thing as an "American", as all Americans are descendants of immigrants. Unless you have Native American ancestors.

America has one of the most diversified people. Well, in the cities and along the coasts. Heartland America is very much white.

 

The union collects federal taxes and spends them on a federal level.

 

Last time I checked, Romania wasn't telling what the UK could do, but the whole of EU was deciding on laws. That includes UK-representatives. That is a democratic process right there.

No "telling what to do" whatsoever.

 

 

 

Using Switzerland as an example of a very rich European country outside the EU is probably a good indicator of the opportunity out there with far less regulation on industry and commerce.

 

Again: Switzerland is not some fairytale - it pays all of the money, gets none of the vote (no EU-member), but gets most of the EU laws, as it's within EEA. That includes agreements on economics and  free movement of EU-citizens and Swiss.

 

Sorry to burst the bubble. A british Switzerland is exactly what Brexiters wanted NOT to happen.

 

 

So much ado about "Article 50" as though triggering it was to unleash a country-killer. It's nothing more than the process of leaving the EU. A structure for establishing new trade deals. That's it. It's not some menacing bogeyman.

 

We do all realize it's possible to trade without a trade deal, yes?

 

What do you want to bet I could order an book from the UK and it would be delivered to me here in the US. Gads! Is that legal? How could I receive that item without a trade deal? 

 

There's much talk about globalization, and there is a lot of it these days. Borders are fuzzy in the modern internet market. If people or businesses want to trade with someone in another country, they just do it. There's no need to sit on our hands and whine about the lack of a trade deal. So this towering spectre of the dreaded "Article 50" is nothing more than a miniscule pebble in the road blocking the path of a capitalism's fully loaded, heavy-weight truck.

 

There's almost no such a thing as "trade without a deal", unless you're trading with e.g. Somalia.

Most deals are covered by WTO standard rates, which are kind of shitty if there's any large volume going on between two countries.

There's no such thing as "just doing it".

 

If you ordered a book from the UK, you'd have to pay taxes. Those will very probably change with UK exiting EU.

[MigBuster 2,884]

 

Again: Switzerland is not some fairytale - it pays all of the money, gets none of the vote (no EU-member), but gets most of the EU laws, as it's within EEA. That includes agreements on economics and  free movement of EU-citizens and Swiss.

 

Sorry to burst the bubble. A british Switzerland is exactly what Brexiters wanted NOT to happen.

 

 

It doesn't have to be.........point is it is not a 3rd world disaster zone either, and there is life outside the EU.........which is good because that is what it appears the UK is now committed to.

 

Only time will tell if it goes through to what will actually happen.................and it will all be worth it if Scotland are begging to rejoin the UK by then. 

[Peugeot205 2,745]

Neither is Podemos, even if the traditional parties want to sell us that shit as they are scared of losing their seats and our money.

 

Oh really? Those who say that Hugo Chavez was an example of great democrat, and those who vote the same measures as the FN does at the europen parlament? Are you joking? Please , we are at 26th June, not at 1st April or 28th December (as it should be in your case).

Edited June 26, 2016 by FRPignon

[Atreides 144]

Taken from the comment-section of a Guardian-article:

 

 

Needless to say - I like it. 

The Guardian ? Really ? A leftist anal drip refugee apologist newspaper ? Cherry pick much ? (rhetorical question).  If the remain side had won and the Brexiters were calling for another vote you'd be saying the same shit, how Democracy won and what a bunch of whiners the Brexit camp is.  Deal with it by going to your safe space on the interwebs I'm sure you can find one.

 

Seriously the lefts new slogan should be "It's not fascism when we do it"  Brexit won ! Nothings going to come out of those petitions #dealwithit

 Calais ,

 

Isn't it a failed state ? You Euro's could've stopped this but chose to do nothing about it.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Atreides

[Atreides 144]

Again: Switzerland is not some fairytale -

 

No it isn't but guess what they do and the public honours  ? Hold a referendum on almost everything.  Including the number of refugees they take in as a country EVERY year and they behave like adults about it and don't (for the most part) bitch and cry like the millennials are from the remain camp.  The Swiss are quite rational compared to the nauseating shithole that Germoney is becoming.