But...but...no one Told me I Could fly a CF-105 !!

[Arrow 83]

I don't know how I missed its release, but being a Canuck I've always wanted to fly a CF-105 Avro Arrow and seeing how someone brought this wonderful jet to Strike Fighters 2 really excites me! I missed the 90's Janes flight sim that a fan created one for, so I've never had the pleasure of sitting in that cockpit. Other than of course the fruit crates with umbrella handle and lawn mower lever my brother and I bolted to some cheesy space-age-styled fiberglass chair back in the 70's.  :) I've been hemming and hawing about getting Striker Fighters 2 Israel, but this changes things. Knowing that the CF-105 is available, if I fly in any SF 2 game it'll be belted in the seat of an Arrow; hey its my avatar name after all.  ;)

I'm in Canuckistan with the falling Canuck-loon for currency and all the SF 2 games cost about $55 CDN right now, so I can't afford to casually buy the lot; or even more than 1 right now. I was set on SF 2 Israel, but I can't think of a way to fit the CF-105 into that theater. I can see SF2 Vietnam as a possibility, because I've already did a what-if for WoV where I flew as lead in a CAF wing of CAF CF-5A Freedom Fighters. Of course the Arrow's paint scheme is all wrong for that and I lack the knowledge to create skins. SF2 Europe is the most likely fit, as it would have been the theater that the CF-105 was deployed to in the early 60's.  That said, what about SF2 North Atlantic? That's the one theater that was never available for the SF1 series so it would be fresh, but it's also the entry in the series I know next to nothing about. I can't imagine ever landing an Arrow -or even taking off- from the deck of an aircraft carrier (damn that jet was huge!) so I don't even know if it could work in NA. I've never seen so much as a screenshot of NA's map, so I'm not sure what's there.  I got the impression from something I read ages ago, that its  map only consists of Iceland with and the surrounding Atlantic. I'd probably only be interested in it if it's possible to take off from airbases in Canada or at least Greenland or Norway; whether from the included map or a fan-made expansion.

A lot of consideration in the design of the CF-105 was for Arctic defense, so flying in such a theater somehow seems more appropriate than others. I remember back in the day there being a fan-made Danger Bearing Straight campaign for SF 1 which would be cool to fly the Arrow in, but was it ever updated for SF2? I also got the impression that SF2 NA wasn't well received, so I'm cautious and wonder if there were any issues with it?

 Anyhow...I currently don't own any of the SF2 games, so I'm inviting some feedback from anyone who has NA as to whether it could work for my interests?

Edited August 6, 2018 by Arrow

[MigBuster 2,883]

Ill received on the basis no one bought it is TWs line I guess or even just badly marketed I mean it has a flipping F-14 on the front cover.

NA is different to the other 4 in various ways and it adds a lot to do with the Naval battles, so more bombers with Cruise missiles and ships firing tons of SAMs at them.....bomber interception is one of the main things I did a lot of in it and you have bases on Iceland anyway not just carriers...............however you can do bomber intercepts in any of the series really.

 

[Arrow 83]

36 minutes ago, MigBuster said:

Ill received on the basis no one bought it is TWs line I guess or even just badly marketed I mean it has a flipping F-14 on the front cover.

NA is different to the other 4 in various ways and it adds a lot to do with the Naval battles, so more bombers with Cruise missiles and ships firing tons of SAMs at them.....bomber interception is one of the main things I did a lot of in it and you have bases on Iceland anyway not just carriers...............however you can do bomber intercepts in any of the series really.

 

Yes and I'll add that's a very nice shot of a Tomcat on the front cover - better than any of the other covers IMO.  :)

Thanks for the reply Migbuster

Hmm...so the NA scenario is more of a the 1st shots fired in a series of battles, than say a Tom Clancy Red Storm Rising situation where Iceland experiences a sort of an auto-overrun day 1?
IIRC in the late 70's Canada's primary NATO obligation was the support and defense of Norway, so it definitely makes sense some CAF could end up dukeing it out with the USSR in Iceland.  My bigger concern is the 1979 time frame, as the Arrow would be close to being retired by then and I'm guessing the fan-made model of it wouldn't allow for upgraded avionics? So ideally an earlier 60's campaign date would be better for my interests. Is doing something like that with the addition of fan-made aircraft and maybe the SF2 mission and campaign editor even doable with NA?

[Edit] I'm guessing that the SF2 Europe Expansion Pack 2 can't be used with this, so other official, pertinent content would likely have to come from the full SF2 Europe product? Oh, and is it true that the NA theater map is restricted to Iceland and the surrounding Atlantic?

Edited August 6, 2018 by Arrow

[MigBuster 2,883]

NA Map is just Iceland and surrounding water pretty much

You can have the F-14 avionics in the Arrow if you wish but yes somebody would need to spend some time on it.

SF2 Europe might be the best bet and recommend the NATO Fighters Mod in that at least to get a good terrain

Also with SF2E you can get the Scandinavian Front 2 although don't think Norway is on that.there was a Norway map but might be set for WW2

 

 

 

[Arrow 83]

Well I did some browsing and found the Sweden Baltic Rim (1952-1994) and Alaska Bering Strait (1955-2018) mods which are both for SF2 Europe. While Baltic Rim only has a small portion of Norway and no Norwegian bases, both of those theaters present Arctic regions. I could see flying an Avro Arrow for NATO in either or those and the dates would allow for my era of interest. And yes to the fan-made Nato Fighters mod - remember having that for WoE and it was an awesome addition!

Both of those terrain mods state; "Recommended Full-5 Merged." So I'm guessing that means the mod creator recommends having a merged install of SF2 , SF2 Vietnam, SF2 Europe, SF2 Israel and SF2 NA? If so, at a total cost of almost $275 CDN that wouldn't happen any time soon for me; if ever.  At this point, I'm thinking of starting with SF2 Europe and eventually adding SF2 NA and maybe SF2 Europe EP 2.

[Edit] Oh and for sure the Mission Editor and Campaign Editor.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Arrow

[+gerwin 451]

North Atlantic has Iceland with custom airfields. These differ from the 6 original types of airfields used in all the other stock terrains. Pretty much all terrain mods also refer back to these 6 original airfields. So AFAIK having just SF2NA is insufficient to use terrain mods.

SF2 Europe seems to me like a good start, it has lots of nations on both side of the fence, and their aircraft have interesting nation specific paint schemes, like the Royal Airforce, East Germany,  Czechoslovakia, etc. A downside is that the stock tiles of the GermanyCE terrain are not that great, they are similar to the Vietnam game.

The mission editor DLC is a very useful addition, and you can also get it by purchasing Strike Fighters 2 Expansion Pack 2. In other words: With Exp 2 you don't need the DLC. The Campaign Customizer is not nearly as extensive as the mission editor. It allows you to start campaigns with nations not normally supported by a campaign. It is not a must IMO.  See the screenshot here https://lparchive.org/Strike-Fighters-2/Update 11/  It mentions mercenery mode, but I think Strike Fighters 2 (the first of the series)  is required for that.

Edited August 6, 2018 by gerwin

[+Menrva 4,192]

48 minutes ago, Arrow said:

Well I did some browsing and found the Sweden Baltic Rim (1952-1994) and Alaska Bering Strait (1955-2018) mods which are both for SF2 Europe.

Both of those terrain mods state; "Recommended Full-5 Merged."

I just said so because it's safer to have all the titles, to have a larger plane selection for the AI to use. But in the case of Alaska and Sweden, you can have just SF2 Europe. I also recommend SF2 North Atlantic as some of my terrain packages make use of SF2NA features.

BTW, the terrains you mentioned are high quality remakes of old ones; for instance, Alaska is a remake of the Danger Bering Straits terrain by Major Lee. But you can read this in the ReadMe files.

[Arrow 83]

6 minutes ago, gerwin said:

...SF2 Europe seems to me like a good start, it has lots of nations on both side of the fence, and their aircraft have interesting nation specific paint schemes, like the Royal Airforce, East Germany,  Czechoslovakia, etc. A downside is that the stock tiles of the GermanyCE terrain are not that great, they are similar to the Vietnam game.

The mission editor DLC is a very useful addition, and you can also get it by purchasing Strike Fighters 2 Expansion Pack 2. In other words: With Exp 2 you don't need the DLC. The Campaign Customizer is not much of an editor (you wrote editor) but a customizer. It allows you to start campaigns with nations not normally supported by a campaign. It is not a must IMO.  See the screenshot here https://lparchive.org/Strike-Fighters-2/Update 11/...

 

I'm becoming more sold on SF2 Euro every time I read something else about it.  :)  Doesn't the Nato Fighters 5 mod improve the terrain similar to how Green Hells did and does for WoV and SF2 Vietnam? At least that's what I seem to recall from running the NF mod for WoE, but it's been some time.

I was wondering about the campaign editor, as there's little info on the 3rd Wire store page. IIRC NF will allow me to run a campaign in different eras as a RCAF or later CAF pilot, whereas stock SF2 Euro won't. I certainly remember running a NF campaign set around 1960 with my wing of Canadair Sabre Mk IVs - even modded AIM 9B's on to hardpoints. :)  I also seem to recall running a late 60's (maybe 68 or 69) campaign with a wing of CF-104; memories foggier with that, as I believe I abandoned it due to liking little about the Starfighter. I remember looking into the possibility of an early 80's campaign with a wing of CF-18/A Hornets. So yeah, if memory serves me correctly I don't need to worry about campaign options for my nation, so thanks for bringing that up about the Campaign Editor.

I can see where buying SF2 EP 2 from the start would save me some money -about $13 CDN-  with its inclusion of the Mission Editor. But...but...that means waiting to the end of the month to buy both, because this month's simming budget is almost entirely shot.    Oh well, best to be patient and stay frugal  - my glory as a RCAF CF-105 pilot will have to wait just a wee bit longer.  

Unless of course I'm wrong about the need for the Mission Editor and could run a RCAF campaign with CF-105 set in the early 60s in the Arctic with just SF2 Euro + Swedish Baltic Rim or Alaska Bering Straight mods?

[Arrow 83]

1 hour ago, Menrva said:

I just said so because it's safer to have all the titles, to have a larger plane selection for the AI to use. But in the case of Alaska and Sweden, you can have just SF2 Europe. I also recommend SF2 North Atlantic as some of my terrain packages make use of SF2NA features.

BTW, the terrains you mentioned are high quality remakes of old ones; for instance, Alaska is a remake of the Danger Bering Straits terrain by Major Lee. But you can read this in the ReadMe files.

Good to know and thanks for your efforts on those mods.  Do either Sweden Baltic Rim or Alaska Bering Strait require SF2 NA?

I saw the mention in the Bering Strait file description about the terrain being improved from a 500m mesh resolution to 250m. Mesh in that resolution always throws me for a few seconds, as I'm used to my 10m mesh in Flight Simulator X and X-Plane 11. Then I remember in Strike Fighters I'm usually hurling over these terrains at close to Mach 1 or better and often at very high altitudes.    As well, much of my need for finite terrain mesh in those General Aviation sims is so my seaplanes don't end up landing on the equivalent of a coastline waterfall, where my passengers can disembark and then swim and claw their way up to the dock.  Not to mention I'm rarely flying those seaplanes above an altitude of 6,000' or faster than 125nm / hr, so that landscape ought to look good and correct.  

BTW What happened to the A-6 Intruder in SF2 Vietnam - my all time favorite SF mud mover? I noticed the A-6E is there in SF2 NA, but it's only AI and IIRC that's a later variant than what was in WoV.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Arrow

[+gerwin 451]

(in reply to your second to last post)

You should consult the ReadMe of these mods to be sure. But many terrains will work fine with just SF2E, or can be made to work with minor editing, as long as these terrains do not refer to stock Desert/Vietnam/Israel tiles. There are different GermanyCE tile repaint mods around. (I use my own repaint, but since it is more like an adjusted version of the origial tiles I don't think it is proper to upload it. )

You can also mod a campaign manually to get the same result as the campaign customizer, but it takes more effort and knowledge. Or make a campaign from scratch

SF2 expansion pack 2 is no cheap way to get the mission editor, suppose it depends  whether or not the Lightning interests you. Actually the Mission editor DLC seems cheap at $10.

 

[+allenjb42 4,230]

21 minutes ago, Arrow said:

What happened to the A-6 Intruder in SF2 Vietnam - my all time favorite SF mud mover? I noticed the A-6E is there in SF2 NA, but it's only AI and IIRC that's a later variant than what was in WoV.

There's plenty of A-6 action to be had here, including instructions for making them flyable:

 

[Arrow 83]

17 minutes ago, gerwin said:

SF2 expansion pack 2 is no cheap way to get the mission editor, suppose it depends  whether or not the Lightning interests you. Actually the Mission editor DLC seems cheap at $10.

Yup, I was thinking I would need it if I wanted to fly the Canadair Sabre again, but then I noticed the Super Sabre is included with SF2 Euro.  I'll probably get Euro and the Mission Editor from the start and then get SF2 NA next. Unless of course my question in my last post proves to be an affirmative; that I need SF2 NA for Alaska Bering Strait and Sweden Baltic Rim.

[Arrow 83]

4 minutes ago, allenjb42 said:

There's plenty of A-6 action to be had here, including instructions for making them flyable...

Very nice, with an enhanced DIANE too!  Some arctic permafrost is going to be movin!  

Edited August 6, 2018 by Arrow

[+Menrva 4,192]

7 hours ago, Arrow said:

Unless of course my question in my last post proves to be an affirmative; that I need SF2 NA for Alaska Bering Strait and Sweden Baltic Rim.

SF2NA is not necessary, so you can start with SF2E. Some terrains use new features of SF2NA, like spawning naval fleets and off map airbases which the AI can use for long range bombers. The Alaska terrain does have some off map airbases to compensate for the modest number of Soviet airbases (just two!). But even without SF2NA, it should work with no issues.

Also, just wait before you download the mentioned terrain packages. I'm going to upload new versions of them in a few days!

[Arrow 83]

1 hour ago, Menrva said:

Also, just wait before you download the mentioned terrain packages. I'm going to upload new versions of them in a few days!

Excellent - looking forward to them.

[Sheriff001 397]

There is a way to get the CF-105 into SF2: Europe. Here is a CF-105 prepared especially for it: 

Nuclear weapons sold separately - thanks again to Sundowner for the templates/skins. 

 

[Arrow 83]

1 hour ago, Sheriff001 said:

There is a way to get the CF-105 into SF2: Europe. Here is a CF-105 prepared especially for it:

Very nice - great job! I plan on flying a Thud at some point, so it's good to know that skin is available.  Very few combat aviation fans are aware of how close the RCAF was to selecting it as their next gen aircraft. From what I've read, the Thud topped the selection list, but Lockheed sweetened the pot for the Starfighter by getting it in a US government sponsored program that lowered its price tag.  Do I think the RCAF made  a mistake choosing the F-104 over the Thud - hell yes. I now the Starfighter has its fans (it is a bit faster, with a better climb rate), but that funky quick turning technique of flipping it over is something I could never grow to like.  IIRC the F-105D had a better combat radius, which when you're tasked with defending a vast Arctic coastline is a nice trait. As I mentioned earlier, I tried the  CF-104 in WoE+NF,  but they just felt a bit too unwieldy too me - Thud for me all the way!

Of course I'd take the original CF-105 / Avro Arrow over either of those 2.  

Edited August 7, 2018 by Arrow

[Wrench 9,792]

don't forget the Canadair Mk.4 & 6 Sabre's for the RCAF are floating the downloads section someplace...

and if I could get my modler back to work, we'd have this one finished too...

[+daddyairplanes 10,118]

wild guess: you dont have the max file to pass on ....

 

[Wrench 9,792]

nope. only angelp

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

Think that's the 3rd Cannuck I've seen over the years as WIP and none have yet made it out of the hangar 

[Wrench 9,792]

well, to be honest, the Mk.4 is pretty well along (shown above). It has the meshes cut and attached as "normal". At this point, probably just skin and decal work. I'm sure this model could also be used as the Mk.5.

The (fictional) Mk.6, OTH, still needs more MAX work (inner/outer wing seperated, stabs cut into right & left), fuselage, nose and tail seperated, engine pods) you get the drift. Also needs more decal work, both for CAF and Belgian users.

 

Sorry for the thread hijack, people. Please go back to your regular discussion. Thank you for your attention! 

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Kevin, i believe there are some guys out there like Carlo or enoc, who would like to finish it, if its just the skin work 

[+Soulfreak 6,506]

1 hour ago, 76.IAP-Blackbird said:

Kevin, i believe there are some guys out there like Carlo or enoc, who would like to finish it, if its just the skin work 

Don´t count on me, I´m full with other projects & real life stuff.... Sorry!

[Arrow 83]

On 2018-08-08 at 12:11 AM, Wrench said:

...and if I could get my modler back to work, we'd have this one finished too...

A CF-100 Canuck would be great to have in the game! That said, I'd personally choose a Canadair Sabre,  or a what-if CF-105 Avro Arrow or CF-105 Thunderchief over it, for the respective era. Would definitely fly a Canuck over a CF-104 zipper though - any day of the week.  

Edited August 17, 2018 by Arrow