Runway to High

[+Richo 65]

Hello every one,  Can someone please help on the runway position?  I am trying to adjust this YAP Terrain and some of the runways are to high and I need to readjust.

Can some please head me in the right direction?

 

Cheers

Richo

[Wrench 9,847]

your terrain HFD is fucked. the airfields need flattening, and that 's only possible in the 3W terrain editor. AND you'll need all the base info for that terrain, and/or build it yourself (texturelist ini, convert all tga to bmp, etc and so forth.

not worth the effort for their stuff

[+Richo 65]

Thanks Wrench  I will just have to take that advise and continue my efforts on your Iran-Iraq terrains which are much better anyway:)

Thanks for getting back with me so quickly.

Cheers

Richo

[Wrench 9,847]

just out of curiosity, which terrain of theirs is it?

[+Menrva 4,200]

3 hours ago, Wrench said:

just out of curiosity, which terrain of theirs is it?

They re-used the Persian Gulf terrain by Gepard (AFAIK, the re-release by Wrench is much better). The bug showed by Richo has nothing to do with the HFD, it's caused by wrong TFD tag values of the tiles; it can be fixed easily for all airfields by TFDtool, thanks to a feature I had requested to gerwin time ago.

TW's Terrain Editor flattens airports horribly by creating huge circular flat shapes on the HFD. Nowadays, gerwin's TFDtool is much more accurate at doing the job, it would be a waste not to use it. It's also quicker to use than the TE. TW's Terrain Editor is only useful for creating the HFD and an autotiled TFD, nothing more.

4 hours ago, Richo said:

Thanks Wrench  I will just have to take that advise and continue my efforts on your Iran-Iraq terrains which are much better anyway

As said previously, the original terrain was made by Gepard, so credits go to him. If you're talking about this Iraq-Iran terrain instead (https://combatace.com/files/file/16395-iraq-western-asia-1980-2003/) I made this from scratch.

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Menrva

[+Richo 65]

Thanks fella's Where do you get this TFD Tool by Gerwin?  I am just trying to get a Terrain together for the Persian Gulf.  USN protecting oil Tankers in the Gulf.  I did spend some time there in the US Navy, 1985 and 1986.

I got some flash backs when recently Iran High Jacked and damaged some oil tankers.  Even if I did get the yap terrain by Gepard to work when you set up for Naval map=True I get this issue fleet winds up in Qatar.

Now I did some adjustments to Iran-IraqWA  which I really like this terrain and came up with this hack job:).  At least the fleet is in the water off Kuwait.  I made all the Neutral targets Friendly and made sure Iran did not have to many US ground targets and made them as Enemy.  Is the fleet spawning in the same area permanent or can this be changed?

Thanks for the Terrain Menrva. 

[+Menrva 4,200]

I just noticed from your attached image, you are using an outdated version of my terrain, included in an old mod by Spudknocker. You'd better re-download the terrain package I linked above, that one has a lot of issues fixed.

1 hour ago, Richo said:

Is the fleet spawning in the same area permanent or can this be changed?

It can be changed in campaigns by setting the terrain's coordinates (those can be read from TFDtool) of the fleet, inside the campaign _data.ini file. For single missions, it's mostly random, it depends mostly on a _water bitmap file. I set NavalMap=FALSE because my terrain is not Real World size but is 60% or so just like stock SF2 terrains, and you always get fleets spawn over land as there is not enough room for water. You have better chances to have fleets spawn in water during single missions in Gepard's terrain, by editing the water bitmap (just have a look at the stock IcelandNA _water bitmap).

My suggestion; do not touch terrain files at all, leave those as they are (there's a reason if we terrain modders disable certain features, like Naval Map statements). You can obtain what you want by creating a Naval Campaign instead, just like the one of SF2NA. Inside the campaign _data.ini there's a parameter you can change for the position of the fleet, IIRC. If you will use the latest terrain package I released, beware that Spudknocker's campaigns won't work with it. Most target areas have different names, and there's a lot of other changes here and there for the better. You're on your own as for editing such campaigns.

1 hour ago, Richo said:

Where do you get this TFD Tool by Gerwin?

https://combatace.com/forums/topic/68667-alternate-tfd-terrain-tilemap-editorviewer/

Edited August 11, 2019 by Menrva

[+Gepard 11,295]

6 hours ago, Menrva said:

They re-used the Persian Gulf terrain by Gepard (AFAIK, the re-release by Wrench is much better).

 

Correct is to say, they have stolen this terrain. In the readme i wrote that it is forbitten to use Persian Gulf Terrain for commercial things, but the YAP Copycats ignored it.

[+Menrva 4,200]

54 minutes ago, Gepard said:

Correct is to say, they have stolen this terrain.

Yeah, I noticed it. What a shame on their part, much despicable. At least they could have bothered to ask for permission, nada instead.

Edited August 11, 2019 by Menrva

[+streakeagle 871]

YAP: the company that threatens to prosecute anyone "borrowing" their work for anything, including posting screenshots that they don't like, but built over half of their products by "borrowing" other people's work.

[+GKABS 8,774]

9 hours ago, Menrva said:

TFDtool is much more accurate at doing the job

I totally agree with you, I have been using it for the same task making the new AB flat ground.

[Wrench 9,847]

Quote

Correct is to say, they have stolen this terrain

I called that out when it was first released. Fully examined it when I got my copy of "their" PG mod.

To make matters worse, the YAP PG terrain is completly stripped of ANYTHING usefull on land. Truly fucking pathetic. Better off using my version of Gepard's terrain; at least there stuff ALL OVER (both sides) to zap. 

Again, out of curisoity, what height specs are they using on their tiles?

Showing one of the transitions below:

[Texture002]
Filename=sea2desert25.TGA
HasWater=1
HeightMap=sea2desert25_hm.BMP
HeightMapScale=2.000000
Color=0.505483,0.471180,0.410264
SolidObjectTexture=terobject_buildings1.BMP
AlphaObjectTexture=terobject_trees1.TGA

 

Long ago, we discovered that many (including some original 1stGen stock maps) have that set to 25!!

You can try editing the data ini --MAKE A BACKUP COPY FIRST!!!!!-- do a "Search & Replace" and drop them down to 2 meters. (the above tile statements comes right out of the version I did.) I don't have access right off the bat to my YAP version, as it's archived on one of my external HDs, otherwise I'd cross check it.

And I COMPLETLY agree about the TE in airfield flattening -- don't even think about using it near or on a mountain!! Screws up this horribly (the ANW map is a good example of that -- 7000 foot plateau with an airfield. fully expect to see Professor Challenger and dinosaurs on it!!)

[+Richo 65]

Here is the info of the YAP SOH Terrain Data.  I will see if I can flatten some of the runways on Wrench's Iran-IraqWA terrain.  Only want to flatten run ways on flat ground and make some inactive.

I am on the night shift this swing and may have a chance to get some done

[Texture002]
Filename=sea2desert25.TGA
HasWater=1
HeightMap=sea2desert25_hm.BMP
HeightMapScale=2.000500
Color=0.505483,0.471180,0.410264
SolidObjectTexture=terobject_buildings1.BMP
AlphaObjectTexture=terobject_trees1.TGA

 

[Texture003]
Filename=sea2desert50.TGA
HasWater=1
HeightMap=sea2desert50_hm.BMP
HeightMapScale=2.000500
Color=0.674493,0.583993,0.448464
SolidObjectTexture=terobject_buildings1.BMP
AlphaObjectTexture=terobject_trees1.TGA

 

Here is a runway from Iran-IraqWA.  I am still doing some adjustments to the Neutral, Friendly, and enemy bases.  I need to flatten this Airbase 

[+Menrva 4,200]

8 hours ago, Richo said:

I will see if I can flatten some of the runways on Wrench's Iran-IraqWA terrain.  Only want to flatten run ways on flat ground and make some inactive.

Here is a runway from Iran-IraqWA.  I am still doing some adjustments to the Neutral, Friendly, and enemy bases.  I need to flatten this Airbase 

I repeat it once again: that is NOT Wrench's terrain, it was made by me from scratch! And it's a very old version, please download this one: https://combatace.com/files/file/16395-iraq-western-asia-1980-2003/ 

It's the same terrain, a much bug fixed version, all airbases are properly flattened, and it's overall better (more target areas, greater quality of the heightmap, etc.). In it Iran and other countries (but Iraq) are Friendly. You won't have to touch it as it's fine on its own. You can always set Neutral countries for campaigns, without touching the terrain files.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Menrva

[+Menrva 4,200]

14 hours ago, Wrench said:

To make matters worse, the YAP PG terrain is completly stripped of ANYTHING usefull on land. Truly fucking pathetic. Better off using my version of Gepard's terrain; at least there stuff ALL OVER (both sides) to zap. 

Again, out of curisoity, what height specs are they using on their tiles?

AFAIK that YAP add-on is for WOV, hence why it's worse than usual, they did not use your re-release for SF2, but an older version of the terrain, I guess. Still, this does not make them less guilty. As you said, for users it's better to download and use what CombatACE has to offer. It's greater quality stuff, for free!

About the _HM bitmaps, I am of the opinion that it's way better not to use them at all, given that the heightmap is properly done that is. In my 250m resolution heightmaps, I am extra careful about flattening sea areas, coastlines and airbases. Without _HM bitmaps, the terrain is all in its HFD glory, so to speak.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Menrva

[+gerwin 451]

7 hours ago, Menrva said:

AFAIK that YAP add-on is for WOV, hence why it's worse than usual, they did not use your re-release for SF2, but an older version of the terrain, I guess. Still, this does not make them less guilty. As you said, for users it's better to download and use what CombatACE has to offer. It's greater quality stuff, for free!

About the _HM bitmaps, I am of the opinion that it's way better not to use them at all, given that the heightmap is properly done that is. In my 250m resolution heightmaps, I am extra careful about flattening sea areas, coastlines and airbases. Without _HM bitmaps, the terrain is all in its HFD glory, so to speak.

I recently checked some of the YAP stuff, the ships by Hinchinbrooke and the aircraft by Bobrock are rather nice: good shapes, details and textures. These objects need some work, for SF2 use and such, but still, what I said. I could mention plenty bad things of course, but I don't see much use in that now. It is not like anything is gonna get fixed or updated, except by myself and people here.

As for _HM bitmaps. I had some adventures with these when (re)making the IcelandNA map. For the coast of Iceland they definitely have their use. IIRC I did things a bit differently compared to stock terrains, because I found grey is level zero, and not black. A normal HFD heightmap does not have the resolution to define the coastline nicely. But it depends on wheter or not the coastline should be more beach- or cliff-like. For flat beaches  _HM bitmaps are  not doing much.

 

 

 

[Wrench 9,847]

this discussion is most interesting!!!

I remember 1stGEns, have to paint the HM.bmps all black to remove the upswelling of the coast lines. I know that fixed some oddities like ships sitting above the water. But I can't remember how far back that was ... age be creeping up on me brain!!

[+gerwin 451]

Coincidentally I did a small test with _HM bitmaps two days ago.

- Added a _HM to the normal inland tiles, instead of just the coastal tiles, mainly by changing the _Data.ini. 

- Raised each tile's HeightMapScale from 40 to 240, to exaggerate the effect.

It works as expected, see test image below. A coast like the cliffs of Dover while inland it is like Verdun 1918.

So again, for coastal tiles this stuff is useful. But for inland tiles I have no good answer yet.  Maybe some tiles can benefit from a _HM bitmap, like tiles with rocks and snow. But in general they don't seem to add to the viewing pleasure there: Either you don't notice their effect, and when you scale them up it quickly becomes too much.

Edited August 13, 2019 by gerwin

[+gerwin 451]

6 hours ago, Wrench said:

this discussion is most interesting!!!

I remember 1stGEns, have to paint the HM.bmps all black to remove the upswelling of the coast lines. I know that fixed some oddities like ships sitting above the water. But I can't remember how far back that was ... age be creeping up on me brain!!

I had similar problems with ships. Ended up using it like this, then all is fine:

[+Richo 65]

Thanks Gerwin for the information,  I am back from work and ready to tackle this issue on Menrva terrain IraqWA.  I need to flatten that expeditionary airfield for the USMC.   I will get gkabs air base in there as well as a test.

Cheers and thanks everyone for the help

[+Menrva 4,200]

@Richo No offense, but have you read my posts? You do not need to flatten anything, if you download the latest version of the terrain the HFD and TFD files have been fixed already for that airfield and various others.

[+gerwin 451]

Yeah, the bits that I wrote were a sidetracked discussion with Menrva and Wrench, not so much for the original question.  I am sure Menrva got the original question covered.

[+Richo 65]

 

On 8/19/2019 at 8:12 PM, Menrva said:

@Richo No offense, but have you read my posts? You do not need to flatten anything, if you download the latest version of the terrain the HFD and TFD files have been fixed already for that airfield and various others.

Thanks Menrva,  I got it and used the latest files from the IraqWA terrain and all is good and thanks for the help  Works like a charm!!

[+Menrva 4,200]

Glad to be of help! There was no need to fiddle with the old terrain, that one was utterly broken under various aspects.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Menrva