Why are people using the names of my addons?

[VonBeerhofen 63]

A while back EAWPRO was called AFB (All Flyable Bombers) but I was forced to change the name to EAWPRO because Mr. Jelly released an addon with the same name. He also has a so called EAWPRO theatre meant for use in his version and one for use with OAW. Recently an addon appeared for SPAW named the Final Cut, a name which I have used for almost a decade for a work in progress.

What's the goal of such actions, don't people realise that it will only lead to confusion and possible cross contamination of addons? What's created for EAWPRO will screw up addons which were not created for EAWPRO and vice versa. I have uploaded a SPAW_UPGRADE.ZIP (Special Air War) to my FTP site to demonstrate the danger, it is NOT for the SPAW addon but for EAWPRO and I hope people can imagine what would happen when this addon would be added to a none EAWPRO version. This addon is for the active Launchpad members only and should NOT be added to any other vesion but EAWPRO!

Whatever the goal is, it's dangerous and detremental to the game and I advice people to stay away from such use. If you don't then you're knowingly putting people's computers at risk. The name The Final Cut has been used for an EAWPRO work in progress for a very long time now and the use elsewhere is pure folly, as everyone in the EAW community will understand.

A simmilar warning like this was treated in another forum as a threat and got me banned for two months due to my poor knowledge of the English language, IT IS NOT A THREAT, IT IS A PLEA TO STOP THIS IRRESPONISBLE BEHAVIOUR AND A WARNING TO THE EAW COMMUNITY TO BE AWARE OF POSSIBLE CROSS CONTAMINATION OF ADDONS WHICH CAN POSSIBLY HARM PEOPLE'S COMPUTERS!

VonBeerhofen

[MarkEAW 63]

I seen it and its all sick behavior. Somethings wrong with someones thinking.

or they know how well your product is and they are jealous.

Its one of those.

[Jel 37]

A final cut is not a brand name or somebody's trade-mark. It is meant to be the finished product, and mainly refers to movies, and this was used by Ray for what he believed was his final product as far as theatres go. In discussion at the Gen he was blissfully unaware that you had used the term, as he does not read your posts. He asked me to assemble the release package, and I used the term that he used.

The all-flyable bombers issue was a farce. It should have been called "All-selectable and flyable bombers" because the bombers could actually be selected from the game screen, unlike anything in previous versions of the eaw.exe. AFAIK you still have to resort to using MSN files to fly a bomber in EAWPro.
If you had bothered to test the 1.28 beta release that I posted for code group members to test the whole problem would have been resolved before it even happened.
You were a member of the code-group at the time, you did not try it, and as a result of all the fuss that this caused you left.

The EAWPro theatre is your theatre. It has your tile-set, "targets.dat", "tardata.dat", "griddata.dat" and" airfield.dat". It uses the TMod table extracted from the exe, but it does not use your sprites, and a few TMods have been replaced. It was made to enable pilots who had both EAWPro and 160 and liked your theatre the chance to use it with the planeset of their choice, and take advantage of the capabilities that 160 has. There could even be some 160 users who downloaded it and as a result of flying it downloaded your release to check out the full version.

We are not jealous of EAWPro. Your exe is a slightly improved 1.2 with fancy sprites, and it may well be good for players with legacy machines.
In terms of the capabilities of 160 it will never be in the same league because you are stuck with the constraints of 1.2, especially the hard coded data tables.
I would never use EAWPro for multiplayer games when I can have games like this, as posted at SimHQ:

***********************************************************************************
We had a lot of fun today because being SPAW there is a lot of sea, so there is a lot of ships.
What has never been done before, at least to this extent, is the stacking of targetable objects on the decks of ships.
This makes the fun, and the screenies are from an online session this arvo  with the multiplayer version at GameRanger.

The mission was a ground-started intercept from the Vic, but Shogun and I both took bombs, for a good reason

The mission is under way, but being bombers the Betties are starting from a land base near the coast.

Their escorts are flying from a carrier, but they need to fly away from us in order to join their bombers.

This left their carrier unprotected, and in our path to the bombers. That's why we took bombs

Shogun destroyed their carrier, and did a lot more damage too.

This is one of my pics, after several passes to strafe deck objects.
You can see the terminally  damaged carrier, and the fire from destroyed deck objects

The debriefing screens give you an idea of the things that can be destroyed on the deck

This one is mine

Here is Shogun's, and he had enough time and ammo left to go after the bombers

The key to this enjoyment is the targetable deck objects. There are many more on the other ships, and Ray is to be congratulated on providing this for the community.
He has added an enormous amount of dimension to EAW

 Jel

Edited October 17, 2019 by Jel

[VonBeerhofen 63]

Nothing you say adresses the possible cross contamination between different addons with the same name in different environments. You seem to downplay the power of EAWPRO with another version but it's not the subject of this thread. Fact is that the EAWPRO theatre is NOT called EAWPRO theatre but it's called Battle over the Reich and it's been devellopped specifically for EAWPRO.

Without EAWPRO it is a poor facsimile of the real thing but as I said that's not the point. The point is that the names of my addons are being used in other versions and that's something I have not ever witnessed in 20 years of playing this game. As I said it's dangerous to name addons so that possible cross contamination becomes possible, so let's concentrate on that fact.

How AFB had to be named doesn't alter the fact that you released an addon with the same name which forced me to change it and now it's happening again, why? What are you trying to accomplish with this?

VonBeerhofen

BTW, I did test the 1.28 versions on my computer and informed you they weren't working but that's a long time ago and has nothing to do with the subject.

Edited October 17, 2019 by VonBeerhofen

[rotton50 19]

Number of things:

1 - The term "The Final Cut" is not yours to appropriate. It would take a very large ego and a very small mind to think otherwise.

2 - Indeed, you have been working on a "Final Cut" for a decade.......that's ten years or 10% of a century. I guess it's going to be great............when it's finished. In the mean time, players can play in the 1.6 sandbox right now. A sandbox full of goodies you can not replicate even if you had a full century.

3 - As Mr. Jelly pointed out, this is my final large scale project for the EAW community, thus the name SPAW2019 Final Cut. There is no way in hell that the community is going to confuse the greatest add-on that has ever been produced for EAW with your work. Jeeeze, it doesn't even have the same name...........SPAW2019 Final Cut vs EAWPRO Final Cut. Why are your shorts in a knot over this?

4 - This thread is a perfect example of the poisonous atmosphere you bring with you wherever you go. It's sad beyond belief that you felt it necessary to start an entire thread to whine about the title of another member's hard work. And to have another member jump in and agree with you..................all without even trying the new product. You are sad, petty little boys.

[MarkEAW 63]

Not petty, nor little. You guys are so obvious. lol I'm rolling.....

You guys couldn't stay on the specific topic if you had too. ha ha

The use of "Final Cut" in the project name is another jab at VBH. It's clear.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by MarkEAW
added text

[VonBeerhofen 63]

No attack has been made, I'm only asking questions and the answers are unsatisfactory and unrelated to the questions about the dangers of cross contamination. All I read is that it's been done because there's no law which prohibits the use of these names but that's by no means a legitimate justification for it.

Whatever else is said has no bearing on the subject and has been dealt with on numerous occasions. EAWPRO is just another addon for EAW, just like all the other addons Mr. Jelly copied. How good it is is not for you or Mr. Jelly to decide, that task lies with the EAW community. Nothing can mimic the addon with it's 50.000 changed bytes, not without knowing how it works and that knowledge is not shared. So stop playing the inferiority card, you don't have a clue what I've created, not even when you've played it. Even a good programmer would need 10 years to figure it out. Inferiority can be seen in screenshots when planes or ships are missing 1/2 their parts or have them in the wrong spots, or when pilotmaps have no detail whatsoever.

Yes the creation of a good piece of work is very timeconsuming and no the Final Cut has only been about 3 or 4 years in devellopment, EAWPRO is the part which people can play untill it gets finished. The fact that Mr. Jelly doesn't want to fly EAWPRO is of no consequence to anyone, I don't want to fly his version either but that doesn't mean others should do as I do.

The fact remains that using the names of other people's addons for something which isn't in any way related is irresponsible and dangerous and may lead to cross contimination of files between versions. And yes that's an attack on irresponsibillity and a few other behavioural things.

VonBeerhofen

BTW I don't care in which sandbox people play but I do care when people are telling others not to play in mine.

Edited October 18, 2019 by VonBeerhofen

[MarkEAW 63]

I don't know about you VBH, but I think they could have come up with a better name for an add-on than stealing your idea for a name. But I think thats your point.

You guys need to remember too, that even EAWv1.2 has a superior interface, hence 160 is so difficult to use because of its external frontend (also that it requires special files to be installed to get it to work even.).
Even with the dummies frontend you made and named, its hard. But whatever, just cause you can't do anything about it, doesn't mean its not a problem.

Now I'm off the OP of this thread. ugh.
 

[VonBeerhofen 63]

Honoustly I don't see what a timefactor has to do with it Mark, SPAW started it's life in 2008 and I think it's by no means finished when objects are still flawed due to not working R/S issues. EAWPRO is also not finished and judging by the pictures I see I think v1.60 is also not finished, and both started life around 2005. It's questionable if any of it ever gets finished, I mean I have enough ideas written down for another 100 years of work and time is running out.

Develloping isn't about finishing things, it's about taking it as far as you possibly can, following your own intended path and having fun while you're keeping yourself occupied with a hobby which got out of hands. When that hobby gives 5 minutes of fun to others for no charge whatsoever then I think it's mission accomplished but it's not where it ends unless you decide to give up on it.

Even then it's not defeat, when it survived for so long I'd call it a great success, no matter what some people think of it. Dang I just followed you down the same road, :)

VonBeerhofen

Edited October 18, 2019 by VonBeerhofen

[Jel 37]

Quote

You guys need to remember too, that even EAWv1.2 has a superior interface, hence 160 is so difficult to use because of its external frontend

Superior? You must be joking ;)

1.2 and EAWPro can only manage one planeset and one theatre. They too need a frontend something like OAW in order to switch theatres and planesets, and that is probably more difficult to set-up and use than the 160 filemanager.
It is particilarly difficult because they are stuck with the stupid 30 plane files ("planes.dat", "pnames.str", "loadout.dat" and "FSMPLANE.WSP") whilst having 30 individual FLT files.

So you are making an unfair comparision between a boring setup with one planeset and theatre, and something that handles multiple theatres and planesets.
The simple 160 release runs EAW without a frontend, and unlike 1.2 and EAWPro the flyable bombers are selectable, and the fighters with wing guns have gun-convergence.

[VonBeerhofen 63]

Sorry, I have nothing comparable to say regarding either response or another version, it just never worked on my computers but even if it had I wouldn't have said anything comparable as it's useless to compare apples and oranges. You can be the apple and I gladly take on the role of orange, but we can swap too if you like. The responses are telling enough and I think I can safely assume that the questionable behaviour is not going to change. I leave further conclusions to this community without trying to manipulate them, I thank both of you for showing your true intentions.

To everyone else I say, you can't judge a book by it's cover but you can judge a bad copy from an original. So give the real EAWPRO a try and perhaps one day you get to see a finished Final Cut too, or whatever name I'll come up with for it. One is already named "Operation Husky", but I don't think the name will stand the test of time. Case closed.

VonBeerhofen

[Jel 37]

I like the oranges and apples idea. However, I was far from happy with Mark's input

Quote

I seen it and its all sick behavior. Somethings wrong with someones thinking.

or they know how well your product is and they are jealous.

What you have been able to do given the constraints in 1.2 is amazing.
However, you are stuck with those hard coded data tables and the 30 plane files.
All through the source code you can read TK's notes " must be moved into an external file", but those things were never moved into external files when the original EAW was released, and even when 1.2 was released.
So you are stuck with 70 or so TMods which you have to juggle. Ray's new release has 382 different TMod types, and 22,628 TMod placements in "tardata.dat".
Because we use external files there are many many things that we can do in the 1.28 series that you will never be able to do in EAWPro, and as you say, there is no comparison.
Add to that the fact that we were able to split the 30 plane files and make planesets, and get the exe to read the various "Dir.set" files we have a very powerful product.
Happily, there are some things that EAWPro can do, that the 1.28 series cannot, and it must remain that way.
It is apples and oranges, or chalk and cheese. It always was since the first 1.28 release, and it always will be ;)

 

[VonBeerhofen 63]

Sorry, no comment. I have my answer and it's good enough for me, I know what to do now.

VonBeerhofen

[RIBob 39]

On 10/17/2019 at 8:26 AM, VonBeerhofen said:

A while back EAWPRO was called AFB (All Flyable Bombers) but I was forced to change the name to EAWPRO because Mr. Jelly released an addon with the same name. He also has a so called EAWPRO theatre meant for use in his version and one for use with OAW. Recently an addon appeared for SPAW named the Final Cut, a name which I have used for almost a decade for a work in progress.

What's the goal of such actions, don't people realise that it will only lead to confusion and possible cross contamination of addons? What's created for EAWPRO will screw up addons which were not created for EAWPRO and vice versa. I have uploaded a SPAW_UPGRADE.ZIP (Special Air War) to my FTP site to demonstrate the danger, it is NOT for the SPAW addon but for EAWPRO and I hope people can imagine what would happen when this addon would be added to a none EAWPRO version. This addon is for the active Launchpad members only and should NOT be added to any other vesion but EAWPRO!

Whatever the goal is, it's dangerous and detremental to the game and I advice people to stay away from such use. If you don't then you're knowingly putting people's computers at risk. The name The Final Cut has been used for an EAWPRO work in progress for a very long time now and the use elsewhere is pure folly, as everyone in the EAW community will understand.

A simmilar warning like this was treated in another forum as a threat and got me banned for two months due to my poor knowledge of the English language, IT IS NOT A THREAT, IT IS A PLEA TO STOP THIS IRRESPONISBLE BEHAVIOUR AND A WARNING TO THE EAW COMMUNITY TO BE AWARE OF POSSIBLE CROSS CONTAMINATION OF ADDONS WHICH CAN POSSIBLY HARM PEOPLE'S COMPUTERS!

VonBeerhofen

I think your asking that various mods to the game(s) be labeled very differently is appropriate.  I am a newbie to the game, and find some of the labeling confusing, at times.

I automatically assume that game mods provided from you, or your site, are specifically for your version of the game, and make similar assumptions for the products offered by other modders.  However, some other people might not understand this, and so run into problems.

I suggest the use of a warning for any and all of your downloads that they are to be used ONLY on your variant of the game.  This will require a little extra typing, but it will serve to prevent the inadvertent installation of your products onto an unsuitable platform.  That is all you can reasonably be expected to do.  I regret that this has become necessary, but one has to deal with things as they are, not as we would like them to be.

I will send an IM with follow-up comments.