Skyviper 1,101 Posted December 12, 2019 So I heard that Russia's only aircraft carrier is caught on fire today... So is this something you put out, patch up and move on with, or just say screw it, and build a new one? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Nightshade/PR 7,929 Posted December 13, 2019 Yeah, it was on CNN, The Independent, and a slew of other sites.. https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/12/europe/russian-carrier-fire-intl/index.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-aircraft-admiral-kuznestov-fire-missing-repair-murmansk-video-a9243406.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyviper 1,101 Posted December 13, 2019 I cut my cable off and run antenna TV I keep forgetting to check their websites. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,812 Posted December 13, 2019 What an albatross. They've been trying to sink her for decades and she refuses to take the deep sea nap. Not sure if that's good luck or bad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted December 13, 2019 14 hours ago, Skyviper said: So is this something you put out, patch up and move on with, or just say screw it, and build a new one? If it sank tomorrow, this^^ would be the Kuze's epitaph. They asked it recently when a crane fell on the ship whilst at dock, puncturing the flight deck and several decks below and causing a small fire. They asked it when the arrestor system failed repeatedly during it's tour of Syria when they lost a freshly upgraded Su-33 and a spanking new Mig-29K over the side. During that same tour, there was apparently a fire in one of the turbines and it was limited to something like 10kts, and even before the refit for Syria, there were previously existing issues with hull fatigue, reliability of the turbines and with it's electronics. And yet, she lives. Kinda makes me wonder if you even can kill it. Probably wouldn't hurt to sprinkle some garlic, silver and holy water into the warheads of anything you potentially throw at it, you know, to be sure... 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KJakker 901 Posted December 14, 2019 Death toll in aircraft carrier fire in Russia rises to 2 https://www.yahoo.com/news/death-toll-aircraft-carrier-fire-133530727.html 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JosefK 911 Posted December 14, 2019 The Russians ought to sell the remains and use the winnings on building up their submarine fleet. After all, the Russian Navy uses their submarines the way some navies use cruisers... But that would require some brains and a realization a ski-jump carrier to launch heavyweight fourth generation fighters is far behind the US Navy in contesting the sea lanes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 11,289 Posted December 14, 2019 This ship was built by ukrainians, what means it is rubbish. ;-) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,812 Posted December 14, 2019 The Russian Kuznetsov was built by an Ukrainian ship builder and they built two hulls for the Soviet Union. The Kuznetsov flag ship and its sister ship the Varyag. During the build of the Varyag the Soviet Union collapses and the Varyag remained in the Ukraine for a decade before being purchased by a prominent business man Xu Zengping. The Ukrainian ship builder was prohibited by the Russian government from selling the hull for military use but along comes Xu Zengping who told the Ukrainian ship builder he wanted it as a floating casino. Xu went so far as to obtain a gambling license and shell company out of Macau. That license subsequently was revoked the day the Varyag was delivered to China. There's some controversy over the engine technology being installed on the ship and Xu claimed the ship came with the engines intact and all the blueprints, Russia for obvious reasons denies this. The result left Russia now extremely unhappy with the Ukrainian ship builder, a wealthy Ukrainian company, and China who just purchased their first aircraft carrier through a shell man. You can imagine how high the emotions were running during that time and it's no wonder why Russia is now at war with Ukraine and annexed Crimea. The newly formed Russia was in no position to do anything about the sale militarily especially so soon after the Soviet Union collapse but one thing was clear, China now had it's first aircraft carrier which saved them an estimated 15 years in research and development. The Soviet Union contracted, Ukrainian built, aircraft carrier hull Varyag sat mid production for a decade. Sold, it immediately entered the Chinese Navy and was commissioned the Liaoning. The scandal is still a fresh wound to Russia but with the Kuznetsov's service history the egg might be on China's face for purchasing such a floating turd. The one thing that is clear is that the Kuznetsov class aircraft carrier is generations behind in development compared to the new Ford class carrier being floated by the US. The threads that weave bind us all. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,812 Posted December 14, 2019 33 minutes ago, Gepard said: This ship was built by ukrainians, what means it is rubbish. ;-) Jinx Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Gepard 11,289 Posted December 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Erik said: Jinx Long time ago my parents had had a ukrainian car. It was a Saporozhez. What a terrible ..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,812 Posted December 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Gepard said: Saporozhez Bless you. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EMCON360 215 Posted December 16, 2019 Uneducated Man Storing Flare Lockers Again I Think Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted December 16, 2019 The Kuze and the Varyag weren't poorly built, per se. Story has it that they were quite capable, if over-engineered (it was a missile cruiser/carrier hybrid after all-- not exactly two concepts that integrate well together), when they launched. A few decades of severe neglect, F-all maintenance/funding and several botched refits whilst in Russian service are apparently what's plagued the Kuze. Ironically, the Varyag, despite being left to rust and exposed to the elements has fared a lot better in the PLAN service, which is either a testament to the technical acumen of the Chinese Navy, or to the lack of it with the Russian Navy regarding the Kuze (personally, I wouldn't trust a Russian shipyard to build me a cup of coffee, at least, not since 1989). Although the PLAN were quick to dismiss the notion of using it as a front line carrier, the combination of the ship's capabilities and that of the J-15 (or their respective inability to meet the PLAN's goals) put paid to that. It's real value will be as a foundational base to gain experience with carrier operations until the Type 001A/Type 002s are commissioned, much the same way they did with the HMAS Melbourne. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted December 17, 2019 Yeah, that's right. Australia gave the PLAN a HUGE boost to their carrier program when we sold her off for scraping and never bothered to check-in on it. Not our finest hour... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,812 Posted December 17, 2019 The Chinese bought HMAS Melbourne back in '85 for $1.4M under the guise of scrapping her and then instead studied her to advance their naval program. The Aussies removed all the electronics and weapons but unfortunately left the arresting gear, catapult and part of the landing system. Chin up sparky you gave it your best bloody shot mate, can't always be winners now can we? Sometimes the only vision with absolute clarity is hindsight. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted December 18, 2019 Well, we thought we were getting the Invincible when the decision was made regarding paying her off, and you know how that went. 🤷 Speaking of the PLAN's Type 001A, just saw this a short while ago. Now called the Shandong, and now 'in-service', which in Chinese parlance doesn't mean in service but completed testing and accepted but not fully operational. https://edition.cnn.com/2019/12/17/asia/china-aircraft-carrier-shandong-intl-hnk/index.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted December 18, 2019 They are supposedly building 2 more carriers currently but of a different design with catapults. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Erik 1,812 Posted December 19, 2019 Meanwhile back at the ranch. https://www.businessinsider.com/navys-next-aircraft-john-f-kennedy-carrier-just-launched-2019-12 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KJakker 901 Posted December 20, 2019 In addition to @Erik above there is also this news. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
