F-5C Avionics

[+sophocles 1,345]

Hello all.  Work is being completed on the F-5C external model and textures, but I really need some clarification on certain elements of the cockpit in this "C" model. 

I've yet to find any pictures/photographs on the net or in any of the F-5 books and publications that I have, depicting what the cockpit looked like.

I know that the "C" avionics were essentially the same as the "A" except for the gyro (read the info above).  Would anyone know If the use of the two-gyro platform mentioned in the text would necessitate a change in the attitude and direction gauges in the cockpit (from the "A")?

I know it's a stretch, but someone may know.

Thanks fellas!

                         Sophocles

Edited February 21, 2022 by sophocles

[+streakeagle 871]

Quote

The aircraft were modified to have inflight refuelling probes on the port sides of their noses, 90 pounds of armor plate on their bellies, and jettisonable pylons underneath their wings. Instruments and flight controls were modified and the standered Norsight fixed optical sight was replaced by a lead-computing gunsight. The rudder travel limiter was removed, and the aircraft were camouflaged in tan and two-tone green, with light grey undersides. They were redesignated F-5C for their service with the USAF.

From: F-5C/D Skoshi Tiger (globalsecurity.org)

[+streakeagle 871]

This warthunder forum post has a flight manual image that may be similar if not identical to Skoshi Tiger cockpit and a photo as well: Northrop F-5C Skoshi Tiger - The Tiger II's Ancestor - Best American Counterpart For The Farmer - Page 2 - Implemented Suggestions - War Thunder - Official Forum It is a possibility that the CF-5 and F-5C shared a similar cockpit layout.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

11157475664_8bce6c1b20_b.jpg (1023×964) (staticflickr.com)

 

[NIELS 421]

Just looked through the few F-5 books I have..........No joy on 'C' pit reference. From the info I've gathered and input from folks 'in the know' sound like the 'A' pit would be a player.

NIELS

[+sophocles 1,345]

7 hours ago, streakeagle said:

the standered Norsight fixed optical sight was replaced by a lead-computing gunsight.

Unfortunately, though repeated in many sources, this piece of information is actually false.  the F-5 didn't get a lead computing gunsight till the F-5E model (though the NF-5a and the CF-5a had quite complex gyro/not radar based lead computing capability)

everything else however is accurate. (see below)

 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by sophocles

[+sophocles 1,345]

7 hours ago, streakeagle said:

This warthunder forum post has a flight manual image that may be similar if not identical to Skoshi Tiger cockpit and a photo as well

Hello Streakeagle. I had read the post some time ago.  The photo is of the CF-5a cockpit (which is a wildly different animal).  Although it is true that many of the reccomendations of the Skoshi program were implemented into the NF-5a(and CF-5a), no evidence exists that the cockpit of the F-5A and C differed.  The only difference is the twin gyro (which may or may not have necessitated different instruments in the cockpit.  The answer to this question would be key to solving the issue.

                    

[+sophocles 1,345]

13 minutes ago, sophocles said:

The answer to this question would be key to solving the issue.

I just received this gem from ravenclaw_007 ..

" ..about the replaced displacement gyros in the F-5C , it does not mean that the ADI in the cockpit was replaced it is just the gyros in the avionics bay ( a black box ) what makes me more curious is what extra formation lights where added to the aircraft and are this lights now standard to all F-5A

i know from experience by starting up my CH-53 that sometimes the ADI does not come up and is hanging to a side , that does not mean that the instrument is broken it is more likely that the displacement gyro in the avionics bay is hanging and has to be replaced , happens some time.."

the mystery deepens! LOL

[+sophocles 1,345]

Hello Gentlemen, I've been having fun researching the Skoshi Tiger programme and have tracked down most of the pilots in the "provisional" 4503rd Tactical Fighter Squadron- and have assigned their names as decals on the aircraft..

and have also added decals for some "outliers" including this particular aircraft which "borrowed" nose art from a marines Skyhawk aquadron!

Not long to go now; would've been great to add a little more authentic capability to the F-5C, like the ability to jettison all weapon pylons; but this just isn't possible in game.

I've got the documentation left to do now and it should be ready soon ..

 

[Wrench 9,862]

that's AWESOME!!!

[+Nyghtfall 2,154]

18 minutes ago, sophocles said:

...and have also added decals for some "outliers" including this particular aircraft which "borrowed" nose art from a marines Skyhawk aquadron!...

Judging from the Dog with the boxing gloves, I would think the USMC-Squadron was VMA-223 (named "Bulldogs") and not 222 as in your picture. But the last number is a bit blocked by the guy, so I may be wrong.

[+EricJ 4,253]

Looks like a 2 to me

[+sophocles 1,345]

1 hour ago, Nyghtfall said:

Judging from the Dog with the boxing gloves, I would think the USMC-Squadron was VMA-223 (named "Bulldogs") and not 222 as in your picture. But the last number is a bit blocked by the guy, so I may be wrong.

Actually Nyghtfall you're quite right!  VMA Bulldogs was 223 .. looks like there's some editing to be done in someone's future..

[+sophocles 1,345]

..that's better!  Thanks Nyghtfall

[Wilches 1,172]

Super joy!!!! Can´t wait!!!

[+allenjb42 4,236]

What’s the story behind this one? Did he land at the USMC squadron’s base and get ‘zapped’ by the Bulldogs?

[+dtmdragon 2,704]

On 12/08/2022 at 6:11 AM, sophocles said:

Hello Gentlemen, I've been having fun researching the Skoshi Tiger programme and have tracked down most of the pilots in the "provisional" 4503rd Tactical Fighter Squadron- and have assigned their names as decals on the aircraft..

and have also added decals for some "outliers" including this particular aircraft which "borrowed" nose art from a marines Skyhawk aquadron!

Not long to go now; would've been great to add a little more authentic capability to the F-5C, like the ability to jettison all weapon pylons; but this just isn't possible in game.

I've got the documentation left to do now and it should be ready soon ..

 

There is a away you can have the pylons jettisonable which I have done for my F-86 Sabres. Set the pylon nodes up as fake fuel tanks or a rocket pods with no rockets in it. Use station specific codes etc.

[+sophocles 1,345]

2 hours ago, dtmdragon said:

There is a away you can have the pylons jettisonable which I have done for my F-86 Sabres. Set the pylon nodes up as fake fuel tanks or a rocket pods with no rockets in it. Use station specific codes etc.

That's interesting; would the pylons retain their regular pylon abilities (carrying ordnance)?

I'd really need some more details dtmdragon; could you provide some of the code that would make this possible?  Thanks much!!

[+sophocles 1,345]

8 hours ago, allenjb42 said:

What’s the story behind this one? Did he land at the USMC squadron’s base and get ‘zapped’ by the Bulldogs?

I have no idea; anyone know??  The caption for the photo says "..and a friendly "zap" bulldog from a Marine attack squadron adorn the F-5 flown by Challen "Choni" Irvine.."

What is meant by the word "zap"?

[+dtmdragon 2,704]

1 hour ago, sophocles said:

That's interesting; would the pylons retain their regular pylon abilities (carrying ordnance)?

I'd really need some more details dtmdragon; could you provide some of the code that would make this possible?  Thanks much!!

A lot will also depend on how the pylons are structured in the .lod in terms of rails etc. PM me a working copy and I'll have a look at the model and I'll see what I can do

[Wrench 9,862]

when an aircraft from another unit, or service lands on a carrier or airbase NOT it's own, it become a free for all to mark it with grafitti or whatever from that bases home unit. Below is a couple of examples during the Korean War

[+allenjb42 4,236]

https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/blog/zaps/

[+sophocles 1,345]

Guys I almost had it.  I used dtmdragons idea to set up the pylons as Fuel tanks and everything was working fine untill I went beyond the "magic" number of only  6 StationGroupIDs available .. 

Is there any way to get around this 6 number for StationGroupIDs?  I happened across this in one of my forum searches by Wrench..

"..yes, you can have a 7th station, if you want something permantently loaded. Can't remember what plane we used it on, but it did work iirc.."

Can anyone help?  One idea I've had is the refueling probe; does anyone know If it can be attached in a way other than setting it up as a weapon (I'd save a stationgroupid right there)????  However I liked the fact that the game user could select it in the weapons option menu and not have to fly with it on always..

Really appreciate any help!!!!

[Wrench 9,862]

32 INDIVIDUAL stations, but only 6 groups

 

[+daddyairplanes 10,255]

ok scratch original response, read post better

how assymetrical are you trying to be? stations you can have 32 of, groups are for the likes of the wingtip rails, bombay etc.

so stations 1 and 2 might be AAMs, 3 and 4 bombs and TERs. but all part of Group 1

takes a little thinking out but you can manage 6 groups while using all 32 stations

Edit: other Kevin beat me to station count while i was retyping my response

Edited August 13, 2022 by daddyairplanes

[+sophocles 1,345]

Eureka!!!!!!!!!!!!

It dawned on me that the StationGroupID limit of six was not for the game itself but only for the weapon stations that would be "visible" in the armaments selection screen.  So what i did was use the StationGroupIDs till number 8 in the data.ini as I had done it originally, but have included the "hidden" entries ID 7 through 8 ( StationIDs 12 through 16) for all the mission types in the loadout.ini!  So it appears that 2 birds have been killed with one stone; ..one, the user doesn't have to mess around the arming screen manually adding the "jetisonable" pylons, and two, in-game ctrl-j jettisons both the stores and pylons.. as in the real F-5C!!!

Thanks a lot for all your ideas gentlemen!!