Do335

woh... seen my AI flight members go way off course coz of mud spikes but didn't know strikers would start hunting radars on their own... this is weird and imo borderline a bug.

wery wery nice! The Oriskany, panthers and banshees... in color!

Fubar i think i finally understood what you said http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB3w/viewtopic.php?p=25313#p25313 when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth. my FM needs an overhaul...

OK... thanks fubar.

hi Fubar! Thanks for the reply. I'm more wondering about how it works with the data ini entries. Opened a new thread here http://combatace.com/topic/83599-where-are-the-sizes-of-surface-areas-defined-in-the-fm-entries/

I'm wondering about how the data ini entries work. The FM data defines lift/drag coefficients, however I can't seem to find where the surface area sizes are defined. Obviously the size of surface area is needed to compute a lift force, from its lift CL. For example, here is the data section for the F-4 phantom's leftouterwing: [LeftOuterWing] ParentComponentName=LeftWing ModelNodeName=wing_left_outer DestroyedNodeName=DAM_wing_left_outer ShowFromCockpit=TRUE DetachWhenDestroyed=TRUE DamageRating=DISABLED MassFraction=0.024 HasAeroCoefficients=TRUE LiftSurface=TRUE CL0=0.0123 CLa=0.6424 CD0=0.0007 CDL=0.0028 Cmq=-0.7695 Cmad=-0.1863 Clb=-0.0091 Clp=-0.0643 Clr=0.0025 Cnp=-0.0032 Cnr=-0.0041 CL0MachTableNumData=23 CL0MachTableDeltaX=0.10 CL0MachTableStartX=0.00 CL0MachTableData=0.958,0.960,0.968,0.981,1.000,1.026,1.060,1.105,1.162,1.162,1.585,1.329,1.101,0.918,0.789,0.699,0.653,0.594,0.533,0.483,0.445,0.407,0.370 CLaMachTableNumData=23 CLaMachTableDeltaX=0.10 CLaMachTableStartX=0.00 CLaMachTableData=0.958,0.960,0.968,0.981,1.000,1.026,1.060,1.105,1.162,1.162,1.585,1.329,1.101,0.918,0.789,0.699,0.653,0.594,0.533,0.483,0.445,0.407,0.370 CD0MachTableNumData=23 CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.10 CD0MachTableStartX=0.00 CD0MachTableData=2.097,1.223,1.096,1.018,1.000,0.988,0.981,1.001,1.015,1.208,1.215,1.451,1.513,1.495,1.476,1.523,1.571,1.546,1.515,1.463,1.419,1.379,1.343 CDLAlphaTableNumData=15 CDLAlphaTableDeltaX=4.00 CDLAlphaTableStartX=-28.00 CDLAlphaTableData=29.160,21.160,14.440,9.000,4.840,1.960,0.360,0.040,1.000,3.240,6.760,11.560,17.640,25.000,33.640 CmqMachTableNumData=23 CmqMachTableDeltaX=0.10 CmqMachTableStartX=0.00 CmqMachTableData=0.879,0.885,0.906,0.943,1,1.085,1.214,1.426,1.826,1.826,18.842,4.021,5.669,6.594,5.259,3.983,2.172,0.693,0.556,0.494,0.454,0.446,0.47 ClbAlphaTableNumData=37 ClbAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 ClbAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 ClbAlphaTableData=-0.063,-0.065,-0.07,-0.079,-0.089,-0.1,-0.11,-0.119,-0.124,0.937,1.97,1.883,1.75,1.587,1.413,1.25,1.117,1.03,1,0.477,1.267,0.52,-0.088,2.387,2.35,2.283,2.17,1.874,-0.187,-0.15,-0.11,-0.1,-0.089,-0.079,-0.07,-0.065,-0.063 CnrAlphaTableNumData=37 CnrAlphaTableDeltaX=10.00 CnrAlphaTableStartX=-180.00 CnrAlphaTableData=0.000,0.004,0.015,0.034,0.060,0.094,0.134,0.181,0.234,0.293,0.357,0.426,0.500,0.577,0.658,0.741,0.826,0.913,1.000,0.913,0.826,0.741,0.658,0.577,0.500,0.426,0.357,0.293,0.234,0.181,0.134,0.094,0.060,0.034,0.015,0.004,0.000 XacMachTableNumData=23 XacMachTableDeltaX=0.10 XacMachTableStartX=0.00 XacMachTableData=-1.217,-1.219,-1.225,-1.236,-1.251,-1.271,-1.297,-1.33,-1.375,-1.375,-1.071,-1.257,-1.407,-1.531,-1.563,-1.633,-1.645,-1.639,-1.663,-1.675,-1.672,-1.682,-1.706 CheckStall=TRUE CLmax=0.1819 AlphaStall=13.50 AlphaMax=24.39 AlphaDepart=35.21 StallMoment=-0.002 StallDrag=0.001 StallLiftTableNumData=37 StallLiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallLiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallLiftTableData=0.000,-0.013,-0.028,-0.045,-0.062,-0.058,-0.050,-0.034,-0.014,0.000,0.018,0.053,0.100,0.149,0.215,0.261,0.362,0.565,0.961,0.624,0.386,0.282,0.224,0.178,0.126,0.079,0.040,0.000,-0.014,-0.034,-0.050,-0.058,-0.062,-0.045,-0.028,-0.013,0.000 StallDragTableNumData=37 StallDragTableDeltaX=10.00 StallDragTableStartX=-180.00 StallDragTableData=0.001,0.008,0.021,0.043,0.082,0.123,0.171,0.227,0.292,0.367,0.451,0.562,0.689,0.825,0.937,1.018,1.142,1.122,1.000,1.122,1.142,1.018,0.937,0.825,0.689,0.562,0.451,0.367,0.292,0.227,0.171,0.123,0.082,0.043,0.021,0.008,0.001 StallXacShiftTableNumData=37 StallXacShiftTableDeltaX=10.00 StallXacShiftTableStartX=-180.00 StallXacShiftTableData=-0.304,-0.304,-0.259,-0.233,-0.231,-0.222,-0.206,-0.190,-0.168,-0.152,-0.136,-0.114,-0.097,-0.082,-0.073,-0.070,-0.044,0.000,0.000,0.000,-0.044,-0.070,-0.073,-0.082,-0.097,-0.114,-0.136,-0.152,-0.168,-0.190,-0.206,-0.222,-0.231,-0.233,-0.259,-0.304,-0.304 Chord=2.32 Ymac=-4.83 StructuralFactor=1.2 MinExtentPosition= -5.88,-2.83,-0.68 MaxExtentPosition= -4.04,-0.19,-0.44 CollisionPoint[001]=-5.88,-1.69,-0.37 CollisionPoint[002]=-5.88,-3.02,-0.37 HasVortexEmitter=TRUE VortexEmitterName=WingtipVortexEmitter VortexPosition=-5.84,-1.75,-0.34 VortexG=2.5 SystemName[001]=LeftPositionLight SystemName[002]=LeftLEFlap SystemName[003]=LeftOuterSlat But... how large is leftouterwing? 2 square meters or 200 square meters... can't seem to know looking at this. Appreciate it if FM gurus can shed some light.

Can I ask a dumb question... So we have all the data points defined in the FM. For example CD, CL of the wing etc. But apparently they're all coefficients, and what calculates them into a force would all requires an amount of surface area. So where is the size of the surface area defined? min/max extendpositions or... does the game engine automatically calculates it from the 3d model file? Seems to me the former is somewhat inaccurate and latter is a bit unlikely...

^yep realized that, gotta move them parking spots some time, mayhaps between the island and the cats... thnx for the heads up.

ooops found them.... disregard..

had the same problem... hated it because it always happened when i'm right on the other guy's tail and about to shoot then --> slideshow. minimized it by reducing the "visibledistance" of the emitters in the ps.ini, if you wanna try it http://combatace.com/topic/78638-fps-friendly-particlesystem-file/ PS to the old timers, is this why TK never included the b-52s in the 'nam campaigns?

On a side note.... how do you set parked aircrafts on these straight decks? I tried for a few hours and always ended up losing a wing. The AIs are fine since their collision is turned off while landing but, not for my own ac... ouch: TheWarrior sorry for the OT..... consider this a bump!:D

Hmmm SF is indeed interesting when referencing my own experience. Falcon4.0 is very moddable. Everything, I mean everything except the code can be modded. Compared to SF, bah locked 3D models, so for example wanna mod an F-4J into an S, not so easy. But when Falcon4 dev seemingly stopped around 2009~10 its community shrank considerably. But look at SF, for the past 2 years nothing significant has emerged from TW, just some bug fixes, if one can call em that, and some basic DLCs, but the activity here remains... constant? It's not 20 new threads a day but it's always going and the download section keeps growing. It's interesting. Reminds me of eco systems, turn a rain forest into barren land and nothing will come outta it again. But burn down a prairie, the grass will just grow back. I still believe that official code dev and even data changes are always a big factor. But I've been led to believe SF is more immune to it. I ask myself, if there's never been an SF2NA will you still be flying this, and the answer is yes. Looking down the line, it seems the gaming industry as a whole is facing a decline in quality, so probably nothing similar will even come around for quite some time. However I'm thinking too much. Apparently what matters most in the web world is always the now and now ain't so bad, be thankful for TK for this little gem and thankful for the modders that keep working on it and enjoy the flights is all.

nice one, sweet camera positions, loved the carrier trap.

Just updating my kaw install after a while and been collecting stuff newly released. IL-10 http://combatace.com/topic/81571-il-10-beast/ Sea Fury updated http://combatace.com/files/file/13443-hawker-sea-fury-fb11-mk-50/ F4U-4/B version 2 http://combatace.com/topic/83169-sf2-kaw-f4u-4f4u-4b-corsair-pak-ver-2-by-tmfmm/ F4U-5 http://combatace.com/topic/83184-sf2-kw-era-1950s-f4u-5-corsair-pak-by-tmfmm/ Baffmeister's flight models in this thread for F-80, P-51, Sea Fury: http://combatace.com/topic/82345-kaw-fm-updates/ Banshee tweeks pack (must have Razbam's banshee) http://combatace.com/topic/83277-sf2-kaw-f2h-2-banshee-tweeks-pak-for-razbam-banshees/ Essex post ww2 (must have YAP rising sun) http://combatace.com/files/file/14785-essex-class-post-wwii/ Essex SCB-27 (mut have YAP carrier pack I) http://combatace.com/files/file/14784-essex-class-sbc-27/ suspecting still missing something but not yet found.

eh of course not, was just saying more impressed with source code changes. but come to think of it i'd rather he'd bought off the shelf sometimes for some of the default models ain't that accurate. thanks for the info, good to know they still make good money (although not as high as i'd liked...)

Hmmm. Expansion packs are just content upgrades. I can buy some quality 3D models off the net, construct their database, make a campaign and you get a exp pack. That is the easiest way to make a new module. Naval combat and carrier ops require base code change, that'd be an engine upgrade which I consider much more significant. Also some cheapo math. I'm not sure what's the usual rate for a programmer in the states but let's assume tk pays 100$/hr to his staff in total. Like 2 really good guys that makes 50$/hr or 4 cheap guys that gets 25. Ballpark right. They work 10hr per day. Hey you gotta put in some OT this ain't the government, heck the dark roomers prolly don't sleep. So that's 100 x 10 x 5 x 4 x 12 = 240,000$/yr. Say a game module is in dev for 2 years. That's roughly half a million. A game's 30$ a piece. So he'd need to sell some 16k copies to have enough just for his employee's salaries. And that's ignoring a whole shebang of rent tax utilities his own income that'll probably double the cost. Although.. I don't see 16k as a hard number to reach but a bit borderline indeed, considering the thing's indie. But all this is moot, it is obvious that TK is fed up with anything half serious on a PC platform.

Well flight sims are one of those niche hobbies that don't appeal to the masses which was always obvious. surprisingly for me even a sim lite isn't a feasible commercial venture nowadays. i mean look at Falcon4.0 Allied Force the last hardcore flight sim targeted at civilian market. It sold very well. That was in 2005. Amazing how things changed in 10 yrs. Did DCS A-10/BS's civilian market sales cover their cost?

Looks like neither NA or Exp2 sold very well. I guess ppl nowadays just go blow off some steam on a xbox. It's not like the 3W games are anything close to hardcore... Reminder to self: don't buy new games, they are arcade extreme and they suck.

indeed compared to other games, the AI here is deadly and relatively smart (or not that dumb)... when the AI has numerical advantage i find myself constantly on my toes. guns only dogfights are the most fun part for me. if only it models aircraft systems a bit more in-depth. well one can't have it all.

True dat! by the time ARH missiles go into service there becomes other countermeasures like towed decoys. It is a constant game of sword and shield... For the pilot in pit, ya never know!!

I'm sure the Raytheon engineers modded them afterwards!

Also, by my own trial and error process, it makes a difference if the sound file is defined in the SOUNDLIST.INI. When defined, the sound plays at original pace.

warthog64 plz double check all the files/edits are in place. the KAW mods requires a lotta DIY for sure, quite possible that something's askew during the process. it's been a while and too hard for me to guess what might be the cause of a lockup atm. but just IMO, the campaign module is quite generous with mistakes so it must be something obvious...

the stick is not even connected to the base on my cougar:D as i said in my post i'm using the x52 stick. my cougar was mostly for falcon4.0 flying which im not doing much these days. pots are a pita indeed and no need to wear them out on strike fighters

OK I have the EXACT same problem. I'm using the HOTAS cougar throttle and X52 stick. Latest driver, no axis is shaky, everything is centered and working fine, but the AC in game rolls automatically. Then I started setting deadzones in the SF2 setup page. The auto roll stopped, but came back after a few flights. Found out to my surprise, that every time SF2 restarts, the deadzone setting would decrease, until it goes to zero, and the auto roll started again. So now my band-aid solution is setting deadzone to 0 in-game, exit, open controls.ini with a notepad, and manually edit pitch_control and yaw_control to have a deadzone value of 1, and then change the file properties of controls.ini to Read Only. This seems to work, as it stops sf2.exe from modifying controls.ini. But it's... kind of a hack:| Hopefully it helps a bit.