Air defense intergration?

[tank03 1]

I just realized (stupidly, since I've been playing TW stuff for years) that sending in a guy to take out the radar doesn't really mean anything in terms of the level/effectiveness of the air defense does it?

 

I had been under the impression that somehow the SAM batteries and radar were linked but I'm guessing that's a bit too advanced for these sims. Can anyone confirm/deny my suspicions?

[eraser_tr 29]

I could have sworn they were. I remember a thread here with someone making an integrated sam network on the suez terrain.

[+Typhoid 231]

I could have sworn they were. I remember a thread here with someone making an integrated sam network on the suez terrain.

 

there was a mod that someone posted that linked the sam and aaa radars. Without that link, if you take out the radar to a sam site - with the standard 5 or 6 batteries, that sam becomes inactive.

[Syrinx 13]

What I find most annoying is hearing all the SAM calls from other flights, often many miles away. Sick of hitting R and finding that threat isn't such a threat after all, especially when it's just distracted you from a big fat juicy target.

[Fubar512 1,350]

Taking out a SAM radar while it's providing guidance to a SAM does work. I've experienced many situations were SAMs have gone "stupid" right after their radar uplink went off line. However, if you network SAM batteries, you might have four or five sites and their radars tracking you at once, so potentially, you're still toast. Keep in mind that we're working with terrain that's 33% undersized, so one might have to alter detection, tracking, and engagement range values accordingly.

 

Most AAA batteries are keying on visual detection (for example, stand-alone 23s and 37s are using optical sights). So, unless you've placed a dedicated fire control radar on the map, and linked AAA fire control to it, taking one out will not effect the level of AAA fire, though it may cause a reduction in accuracy over a given area. Every ZSU-23-4 track has it's own "Gun Dish" FC radar, so they must be handled on an individual basis. I have my 57mm and larger AAA guns linked to a few, strategically-placed "Fire Can" gun-laying radars, and they are quite accurate.

[Fubar512 1,350]

What I find most annoying is hearing all the SAM calls from other flights, often many miles away. Sick of hitting R and finding that threat isn't such a threat after all, especially when it's just distracted you from a big fat juicy target.

 

Well, that's how it happens in RL. Just ask any of the military pilots, aircrew, and command post pukes that frequent this site.

[tank03 1]

What I find most annoying is hearing all the SAM calls from other flights, often many miles away. Sick of hitting R and finding that threat isn't such a threat after all, especially when it's just distracted you from a big fat juicy target.

 

 

I use the COMM mod found in the download section here. It makes it so that the flight calls out the number being targeted. That way I just have to respond when I hear my number. Of course, if there are multiple squadrons, I can hear "1- SAM launch" quite a bit, but it still reduces the overall number of radio calls I have to pay attention to.

[Syrinx 13]

I use the COMM mod found in the download section here. It makes it so that the flight calls out the number being targeted. That way I just have to respond when I hear my number. Of course, if there are multiple squadrons, I can hear "1- SAM launch" quite a bit, but it still reduces the overall number of radio calls I have to pay attention to.

 

Cheers Tank, I missed that mod ! Will d\l it now.

[tank03 1]

Well, that's how it happens in RL. Just ask any of the military pilots, aircrew, and command post pukes that frequent this site.

 

I have a friend that was a Navy pilot quite some time ago, and he has recordings he made himself. It's ASTOUNDING how much on air traffic there was. That they could weed through all of that stuff and still know what was going on, and still have enough attention to do their job amazes me. It's quite impressive, and gives me even greater appreciation for what those guys do.

[tank03 1]

Taking out a SAM radar while it's providing guidance to a SAM does work. I've experienced many situations were SAMs have gone "stupid" right after their radar uplink went off line. However, if you network SAM batteries, you might have four or five sites and their radars tracking you at once, so potentially, you're still toast. Keep in mind that we're working with terrain that's 33% undersized, so one might have to alter detection, tracking, and engagement range values accordingly.

 

Most AAA batteries are keying on visual detection (for example, stand-alone 23s and 37s are using optical sights). So, unless you've placed a dedicated fire control radar on the map, and linked AAA fire control to it, taking one out will not effect the level of AAA fire, though it may cause a reduction in accuracy over a given area. Every ZSU-23-4 track has it's own "Gun Dish" FC radar, so they must be handled on an individual basis. I have my 57mm and larger AAA guns linked to a few, strategically-placed "Fire Can" gun-laying radars, and they are quite accurate.

 

Thanks for clarifying that. I wasn't sure how the air defense was actaully modelled in the game.

[+Typhoid 231]

Well, that's how it happens in RL. Just ask any of the military pilots, aircrew, and command post pukes that frequent this site.

 

amen.........!

[+Typhoid 231]

I would rather get a false SAM call then no SAM call at all. To reiterate what Fubar512 said, in real life sometimes all a pilot can get out of his mouth is SAM! or RPG! Something happens to the brain under stress that causes what would seem like a simple call of "Outlaw 2-1, RPG, left, low, 3-o-clock!", come out like; "RPG!, left!". Your brain shuts down, muscle memory takes over, reactions are automatic. Only the very basics of speech remain. Just enough to get your point across.

 

There is a file out there that USAFMTL put out that will make your wingman call out the flight number the SAM is being fired at. I haven't installed it because like I said before, the system currently in the game seems more correct to me. Besides I would rather pop chaff and go evasive, rather than catch a SAM up the tail pipe that I missed during my ground scan.

 

-Wells

 

what would be more realistic is for the mod to call the flight callsign rather than just the number. In reality, any call within the radio horizon is in your ears. Comm discipline with the callsigns is essential although when wrapped up in a tight turning fight that sometimes got abreviated to the number only. With a lot of players, the frequencies would get crowded and everyone on a given strike package would all be on the same freq. With multiple strike packages, they would usually have different freqs in order to reduce that noise. But of course, with "AF Common" up you would here everyone on that party line.

[Fubar512 1,350]

I recall reading about an instance during the Vietnam war, when a Navy pilot saw a VPAF MiG lining up on an F-4, an F-4 that wasn't part of his flight. He got on the radio and said something to the effect of "F-4 below me, there's a MiG on your tail, break right!". The result was that every F-4 that was airborne at the time over SEA, performed a right break.

[+Typhoid 231]

I recall reading about an instance during the Vietnam war, when a Navy pilot saw a VPAF MiG lining up on an F-4, an F-4 that wasn't part of his flight. He got on the radio and said something to the effect of "F-4 below me, there's a MiG on your tail, break right!". The result was that every F-4 that was airborne at the time over SEA, performed a right break.

 

 

worse, I recall watching the PLAT replay of a multi-Phantom launch off the boat. One of the four had a bridle slap which busted his belly tank causing a ton of fuel to leak into the burner exhaust with fairly predictable and spectular results. The Air Boss called - "Phantom off the cat - you're on fire" resulting in the crews of three perfectly good aircraft to eject immediately! The stricken Phantom simply jettisoned the busted tank and came back normally with just a little scorched paint.

 

The CAG was not pleased.......

 

[+Crusader 2,101]

LOL

 

"hot" story for sure

[eraser_tr 29]

How much did each of them cost? Imagine if that happened with the superbug

[Longestpants 1]

How much did each of them cost? Imagine if that happened with the superbug

 

Public service?

[Grosse Hosen 0]

Public service?

 

i AM LIKE TEH WAY YUO THINK MR BIG LONGEST PANTS ABOUT FANCY SUPA HORNET PLANE!!!!11!111

[+Gepard 11,295]

I remember reading a british battle report of fighter activities in WW2. The author wrote, that the warningcall "109 on your tail" forced all british fighter pilots in range to break.

Same thing i read in russian reports of MiG-15 activity in Korea.

[MigBuster 2,884]

Well I suppose you could ignore it and keeping flying level - though ive lost count of the amount of times ive bin had taking that risk :blush2:

[Kirsten 0]

I have reinstalled the "Comm" mod a couple of times (even the original one from a couple of years ago) but it doesn't seem to work anymore....

Anybody any idea ???

 

Thanks

 

Derk

[tank03 1]

I have reinstalled the "Comm" mod a couple of times (even the original one from a couple of years ago) but it doesn't seem to work anymore....

Anybody any idea ???

 

Thanks

 

Derk

 

It's a relatively simple edit so I'm not sure why it isn't working for you. Did you put it into the Flight folder? What game are you trying it in, what a/c, and what kind of mission? Have you tested it enough to be sure that it's not working, and that you just haven't encounter a threat yet?

Edited October 31, 2007 by tank03

[Kirsten 0]

I just realized (stupidly, since I've been playing TW stuff for years) that sending in a guy to take out the radar doesn't really mean anything in terms of the level/effectiveness of the air defense does it?

 

I had been under the impression that somehow the SAM batteries and radar were linked but I'm guessing that's a bit too advanced for these sims. Can anyone confirm/deny my suspicions?

 

Hello Tank,

 

I JUST REALIZED (STUPIDLY, SINCE I'VE BEEN PLAYING SFP1 FOR YEARS) that I put the speech.ini

in the speech folder instead of the flight folder........

One is never too old to read ( )

 

Thanks for putting me on the right track,

 

Aju,

 

Derk