+Jimbib 747 Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/milita...070925c_nr.html Should be interesting to see how it performs in its new role in the years to come. Edited November 16, 2007 by bibbolicious Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TX3RN0BILL 3 Posted November 16, 2007 Is this plane supposed to replace the EA-6B Prowler? It only has a crew of 2... and IMHO, for electronic missions, 4 heads thinking and acting is better than just 2 (or 3 vs 1 in this case of electronic officers)... Once again cutbacks, cutbacks, cutbacks... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 628 Posted November 16, 2007 congrats for the navy :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mladuna 0 Posted November 16, 2007 (edited) Is this plane supposed to replace the EA-6B Prowler? It only has a crew of 2... and IMHO, for electronic missions, 4 heads thinking and acting is better than just 2 (or 3 vs 1 in this case of electronic officers)... Once again cutbacks, cutbacks, cutbacks... I wouldn't be too surprised if US Navy makes an replacement for E-2 Hawkeye based on superbug. Edited November 16, 2007 by Mladuna Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted November 16, 2007 Yes, but the EA-18 will be able to keep up with the other Hornets during missions, as opposed to the EA-6 which is incapable of those speeds. The other thing is modern computers should allow 2 to do the job of 3 (as in the EA-6 I don't think the pilot did any EW work himself, just flew). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+allenjb42 4,234 Posted November 16, 2007 The EF-111 was only a 2 seater too. Did that have any workload problems for the crew? What's the plan for the Growler? 4 aircraft squadrons per carrier like the Prowler? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted November 16, 2007 Jedi and allenjb42 are both correct. I scammed a ride with some Prowler guys 10 years ago during a Flag exercise so I got to see them doing the job firsthand. Most of their work was just trying to fuse the myriad sensor inputs of the decidedly old avionics. Definitely stuff that's improved in modern avionics. And yep, the pilot does not do any of the EWO work in the Prowler. The 4 person argument is not a valid one in this case. FastCargo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted November 19, 2007 I wouldn't be too surprised if US Navy makes an replacement for E-2 Hawkeye based on superbug. in development........ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted November 19, 2007 What about the C-2 Greyhound? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWCAce 19 Posted November 19, 2007 Yes, but the EA-18 will be able to keep up with the other Hornets during missions, as opposed to the EA-6 which is incapable of those speeds. The other thing is modern computers should allow 2 to do the job of 3 (as in the EA-6 I don't think the pilot did any EW work himself, just flew).In a debrief of Desert Storm, it was said that the USAF EF-111 Raven (which had lower power jammers) was more effective over the Prowler (which had higher power jammers) due to it's ability to easily keep up with the strike packages.Also, the pilots just fly, and occasionally pickle off a HARM, just to back you up.in development........ I've been looking for that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted November 19, 2007 In a debrief of Desert Storm, it was said that the USAF EF-111 Raven (which had lower power jammers) was more effective over the Prowler (which had higher power jammers) due to it's ability to easily keep up with the strike packages.Also, the pilots just fly, and occasionally pickle off a HARM, just to back you up.I've been looking for that! I though that Ravens were unarmed save the possibility for AIM-9s. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DWCAce 19 Posted November 20, 2007 I thought they carried HARM's, but I cannot find anything to confirm this :: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted November 20, 2007 (edited) I think ravens were F-111s stripped to the bare bones of everything. The purpose was to have all equipment carried internally so drag was reduced, maybe they could carry aim-9s, but I don't even think F-111s carried HARMS operationally. Edited November 20, 2007 by ironroad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FastCargo 412 Posted November 20, 2007 And most of the guys I know that flew Ravens have all retired so finding someone to ask has become problematic... FastCargo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TX3RN0BILL 3 Posted November 20, 2007 Jedi and allenjb42 are both correct. I scammed a ride with some Prowler guys 10 years ago during a Flag exercise so I got to see them doing the job firsthand. Most of their work was just trying to fuse the myriad sensor inputs of the decidedly old avionics. Definitely stuff that's improved in modern avionics. And yep, the pilot does not do any of the EWO work in the Prowler. The 4 person argument is not a valid one in this case. FastCargo I beg to differ. Imagine a Prowler with modern electronics... 4 persons with the new computers and completely overhauled new electronics/radar/sensor suite... would out-do the Growler's 2-crewed performance. But Prowler in that case would be relegated to Electronic Warfare only, since SEAD is also normally left to Wild Weasel type aircraft... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted November 20, 2007 The EA-6B has enough pylons to carry HARMs plus the ALQ pods. The EF-111 had only two pylons under the glove and both carried ALQs. It had no pylons for ordnance. The EA-18 has pylons like the EA-6 and will be a hunter too. While a 4 person crew with the EA-18's suite could certainly out do a 2 man one, any plane capable of carrying 4 people would be slower and more vulnerable. Let's face it, neither AAA nor IR SAMs care about those jammers. You can't jam the MkI eyeball! It's better to have 2 EA-18s instead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted November 20, 2007 The EA-6B has enough pylons to carry HARMs plus the ALQ pods. The EF-111 had only two pylons under the glove and both carried ALQs. It had no pylons for ordnance. The EA-18 has pylons like the EA-6 and will be a hunter too. While a 4 person crew with the EA-18's suite could certainly out do a 2 man one, any plane capable of carrying 4 people would be slower and more vulnerable. Let's face it, neither AAA nor IR SAMs care about those jammers. You can't jam the MkI eyeball! It's better to have 2 EA-18s instead. I think the operational concept is to do just that, send in one with the strike package and another as a stand-off. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wolf65 0 Posted November 20, 2007 I hope you don't mind the question, but what do the prowlers and growlers do anyway? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted November 21, 2007 http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...aft/ef-111a.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiGMasher 0 Posted November 21, 2007 My impression was that the ALQ-99E that was carried by the EF-111 Ravens was more automated than that on the Prowlers, and the Raven was mostly flying in a clean configuration for its missions. Confirm, anyone? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TX3RN0BILL 3 Posted November 21, 2007 (edited) The EA-6B has enough pylons to carry HARMs plus the ALQ pods. The EF-111 had only two pylons under the glove and both carried ALQs. It had no pylons for ordnance. The EA-18 has pylons like the EA-6 and will be a hunter too. While a 4 person crew with the EA-18's suite could certainly out do a 2 man one, any plane capable of carrying 4 people would be slower and more vulnerable. Let's face it, neither AAA nor IR SAMs care about those jammers. You can't jam the MkI eyeball! It's better to have 2 EA-18s instead. Well, still for the role of standoff electronic warfare platform I think the Prowler would outperform the Growler, since AFAIK the USN doesn't have any other dedicated ELINT/EW platform, though I don't mind the Growler being dedicated USN Wild Weasels... oh well... Maybe someone will think of converting some Greyhounds to a dedicated Electronic Warfare/ELINT platform... Because electronic warfare isn't limited to SEAD but there are other electronics that can be jammed electronically... Edited November 21, 2007 by TX3RN0BILL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted November 21, 2007 From what I understand all the equipment for the Raven was packed in the 111's bomb bay, on the tail, inside the wing roots, and in the nose. The Grumman and the USAF wanted a clean airframe with as little drag as possible. The only thing I have seen loaded on the Raven's wing pylons were travel pods. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ironroad 218 Posted November 21, 2007 Well, still for the role of standoff electronic warfare platform I think the Prowler would outperform the Growler, since AFAIK the USN doesn't have any other dedicated ELINT/EW platform, though I don't mind the Growler being dedicated USN Wild Weasels... oh well... Maybe someone will think of converting some Greyhounds to a dedicated Electronic Warfare/ELINT platform... Because electronic warfare isn't limited to SEAD but there are other electronics that can be jammed electronically... I dunno from the looks of it, it seems the EA-18 will only have harms and or a/a missiles for last ditch self-defense. Looks like most the of the pylons are jammed up with pods. I do not think the Marines will be getting rid of their Prowlers anytime soon, hopefully they will get the airframes and parts passed on to them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MiGMasher 0 Posted November 23, 2007 From what I understand all the equipment for the Raven was packed in the 111's bomb bay, on the tail, inside the wing roots, and in the nose. The Grumman and the USAF wanted a clean airframe with as little drag as possible. The only thing I have seen loaded on the Raven's wing pylons were travel pods. That's what I thought too. I used to have the USAFE Yearbook 1988 which explained all this. I try to dig it up... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sparkomatic 7 Posted December 10, 2007 - Boeing is one of the most corrupt companies in the world...I am very confident that if the game "Half-life" were true, then Boeing was running Black Mesa Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
