Rant on

[HrntFixr 4]

To all the "Rivet counting" "Flight Model bashing" "never been in a military aircraft" wanna be's out there..........

 

Your gonna run out some really great modders!!!!! All the piddly little bulls**t about "this isn't right" or the ever popular

"it dosen't feel like it should" is getting ridiculous! It's a great open flight sim with a multitude of talented people who are , quite frankly, tired of the crap!

 

You read a book or an article on the web and BINGO your an expert.... WTF? I've been around and/or worked on

aircraft over half my life and I still wouldn't dream of bashing someone else's hard work. Especially if I can't do a better

job.

 

Same thing goes for the "gimme, gimme's" out there. You want it???? Get the program's needed , learn the art and make the dam thing yourself!!!!!!!!!

 

[RANT OFF]

[column5 63]

I think this is always going to be a problem. There will always be people mroe interested in nitpicking than enjoying the game. My personal rule is that any work I do for the game is designed to make ME happy. If other people download it and enjoy it then that is a positive secondary benefit, but I'm not doing it for anyone else's approval or acceptance. If it makes me happy, its right.

[+Sundowner 4,812]

Well said both of you.

[+JSF_Aggie 1,291]

I think this is always going to be a problem. There will always be people mroe interested in nitpicking than enjoying the game. My personal rule is that any work I do for the game is designed to make ME happy. If other people download it and enjoy it then that is a positive secondary benefit, but I'm not doing it for anyone else's approval or acceptance. If it makes me happy, its right.

 

Agreed. It'll die down for awhile now, but it will always come back again.

 

Just ignore it, and do what makes you happy. Don't let it take away from your own enjoyment.

[+Stary 2,427]

I think this is always going to be a problem. There will always be people mroe interested in nitpicking than enjoying the game. My personal rule is that any work I do for the game is designed to make ME happy. If other people download it and enjoy it then that is a positive secondary benefit, but I'm not doing it for anyone else's approval or acceptance. If it makes me happy, its right.

 

C5, couldn't say it better

[column5 63]

As a corollary, the quality of a person's work does indicate some things about them. If a person accepts crap in one facet of their life, what about the others? Just something to think about.

[+Julhelm 266]

The thing that gets to me is how the gimmegimmies always use lameass excuses like "sob sob sniff but I can't afford max boohoo sniff sniff" every time you tell them to go do it themselves. What this really means is that even though obtaining the tools can be done for free at the touch of a button they're simply too lazy to even bother because it means they'd actually have to learn something and put in a little effort.

[+EricJ 4,199]

Just a counterpoint, 3DSMax isn't something you can buy right off the street and for a cheap price. I mean seriuosly, not many people can shell out a few thousand to get the latest 3D software.. Yes there are torrents, limited use copies (which by the way lasts for a month, so little time to learn what so many already do), but that's of dubiousness in itself, so it's not a valid complaint. However, you can save up, since the average burger flipper makes more than me anyways, so he or she would take a few months, wheareas I'd have to deploy and get shot at, blown up or severely injured to get the kind of money the average worker gets (hell my Mom is going to get $12.50 an hour for pushing pens!), or save for a few years, and by then, it'd still be too expensive. So yah it's all good, but remember sometimes most of the gamers can't also get a job because they're usually under 18.

[column5 63]

Just a counterpoint, 3DSMax isn't something you can buy right off the street and for a cheap price. I mean seriuosly, not many people can shell out a few thousand to get the latest 3D software.. Yes there are torrents, limited use copies (which by the way lasts for a month, so little time to learn what so many already do), but that's of dubiousness in itself, so it's not a valid complaint. However, you can save up, since the average burger flipper makes more than me anyways, so he or she would take a few months, wheareas I'd have to deploy and get shot at, blown up or severely injured to get the kind of money the average worker gets, or save for a few years, and by then, it'd still be too expensive. Hell I got Adobe Photoshop free and still look for free alternatives to buying, but sometimes you don't have time to do texture work even, which is my forte anyways, and hell sometimes I don't want to do it. But be as it may, I don't like the gimme gimmes either because I have other things going on.

 

True, but you don't have to have max to make a model for SF. All of Flying Toaster's models for example are done in Blender and then exported to max, where bpao does the final work on them before they are released.

 

I agree though that the weakest link in TKs plan to create the ultimate open sim is that his exporter is only available for one of the most expensive 3D programs out there.

[Piloto 3]

Good Post!

 

 

 

BTW 10% warn for "stirring the pot" !!!

[+Gunrunner 314]

<MoronMode>

Come on modders, get back to work, less ranting, more releasing, the planes won't make themselves you know...

</MoronMode>

 

I think the modders should also realise that most whiners are only kids, with a different vision of the process; most can't understand the fact they COULD do it (if only they cared to learn to) and that modders don't have as much free time as they do themselves, that they have lives, jobs, wives, kids and are not some sort of demi-gods with unlimited free-time and a life dedicated to answering the prayers of others.

Also, they don't have a clue to what constitutes an informed and constructive criticism and what is just obnoxious and annoying whining.

[Silverbolt 104]

Agree with C5 and Flanker

btw i was very lucky to found my 3ds max 7 copy in a sold-off from a broken store

but i have big problem to mod xDD

Edited November 23, 2007 by Silverbolt

[+Jarhead1 27]

But they are also old enough to know that people bust their a**es to build these awesome mods and then bi**h about them when something is a c**t hair off or they think its off. Thats BULLS**T, hands down in my opinion. I want to learn to mod but i dont have the tools. I dont go b**ch about freeware mods that people take time out of their busy lives to make for themselves and everyone else to enjoy. Thats just my opinion. I dont know enough about a/c or work with them enough like usafmtl, or hrntfixr or fastcargo, and typhoid. BUT i dont go critisize others work either. Again, thats just MY opinion.

[+Julhelm 266]

The point I'm trying to make is that Max being expensive isn't a valid excuse on it's own, since there's nothing stopping anyone from petitioning TK about writing an exporter for a free alternative like Blender.

[+Gunrunner 314]

Jarhead1>

That's easy to say when you know better, but we've all been annoying brats at least once.

I'm not trying to find an excuse for them, just getting things back into context, what is inadmissible from grown men can be understood from kids (you just have to explain), getting the community into such a state of emotional and existential turmoil because of a few ingrate kids is a little disproportionate, event though it's easily understood.

At least we're not in a situation where modders are throwing mud at each other any more, and hopefully we won't be seeing that again.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Dont get me wrong, I am not trying to pour gas into the fire, I was just throwing in my 2 cents

[Piloto 3]

Jarhead1>

That's easy to say when you know better, but we've all been annoying brats at least once.

I'm not trying to find an excuse for them, just getting things back into context, what is inadmissible from grown men can be understood from kids (you just have to explain), getting the community into such a state of emotional and existential turmoil because of a few ingrate kids is a little disproportionate, event though it's easily understood.

At least we're not in a situation where modders are throwing mud at each other any more, and hopefully we won't be seeing that again.

 

 

Nice point! Children see, children do.

 

Its not a nice attitude to be a gimmegimme but its even worse to threat and menace to quit working or not "supply" new models into the community because of that.

[+Dave 2,322]

And you can see why YAP and Prowler are payware. Might as well get paid for their time. I mean hell a few of us could do that. Might bring that up to the Mirage Factory. Then at least when people whine we have their money.....then they can whine since they bought it.

[+Dave 2,322]

its even worse to threat and menace to quit working or not "supply" new models into the community because of that.

 

Not hardly, not even close. People have their limits man. And its has gotten to a point with some modders.

[+Jarhead1 27]

Those words, can they be?????

[Piloto 3]

Not hardly, not even close. People have their limits man. And its has gotten to a point with some modders.

 

 

Well, i think i was misunderstood.

 

What i meant was that you modders work for yourselfs and for the joy and apreciation of the community, right?!?

If some of you modders are sick entired of repeating youselfs with the same things and with criticism (i know i am!) its your choice to stop producing models. But i think its not coerent to threat stop making models just because i dont like the critics.

Youre modders for the compliments and for the critics, dont forget that. In spite i realize that some critics are made from somebody that could try and do better....if they could.

When i dont like some model...the delete button is there. no critics because i know i cant do better.

 

Hell, im sick entired of waiting for the Gripen and you dont see me opening posts requesting it!!

[tank03 1]

I usually follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" guidelines since I typically don't know enough about the objects to notice anything amiss. Besides, I have over 200 planes on my HD that I can fly, all for free, and all due to the efforts of others in the community; what could I possibly complain about??

 

But it does make me wonder; what is the generally accepted feedback protocol? (and I'm talking respectful, constructive, critical feedback here, not simply bitching and whining) If you notice a problem or inaccuracy with a mod, should you say something to the creator (maybe they overlooked that one thing) or simply let it go? Use a PM or post in the forum? Is there a reasonable level of community feedback, or should you simply keep your mouth shut for everything? Should the creators include a note in the README that says whether they want feedback or not?

 

The reason I ask is I'm starting to work on some stuff of my own and I'd want to know where I went wrong in the interests of improving my skills.

 

I'm just curious as to where the line is (if there even is one) about when constructive feedback becomes bitching? I suspect there isn't one though, because I've noticed some people really have no idea when they are being a jerk. They THINK they are being respectful and constructive, but they just can't see that they are simply whinging.

[tank03 1]

Youre modders for the compliments and for the critics, dont forget that.

That's my question? JUst because you share something does that automatically open you up for both praise and CRITIQUE?

 

I don't think it does, at least not in an open forum. It would seem somewhat reasonable to PM an individual and say "hey, I noticed this or that". Then the person can reply in private and say either "thanks for pointing that out", or " it is what it is, thanks but I'm not doing any more with it."

 

Just because you share something with the community I don't think that's an invitation for evryone to pick apart your work publiclly; it's in poor taste and disrespectful.

[+Dave 2,322]

Well, i think i was misunderstood.

 

What i meant was that you modders work for yourselfs and for the joy and apreciation of the community, right?!?

If some of you modders are sick entired of repeating youselfs with the same things and with criticism (i know i am!) its your choice to stop producing models. But i think its not coerent to threat stop making models just because i dont like the critics.

Youre modders for the compliments and for the critics, dont forget that. In spite i realize that some critics are made from somebody that could try and do better....if they could.

When i dont like some model...the delete button is there. no critics because i know i cant do better.

 

Hell, im sick entired of waiting for the Gripen and you dont see me opening posts requesting it!!

 

Well that is a misconception, no one is modding for compliments and the appreciation from anyone. As Column5 said, we do it for ourselves, its just a bonus that the community get to use the fruits of our labor. Ask any modder here and they will tell you the same thing. I got tons of mods I have done and have not released to anyone. Some of us modders mod and just give it to other modders. i.e. keep it in house. I have no ego to bruise and do not need anyone to kiss my ass over a mod. Thank you are nice but its not why we do it.

 

 

Gripen is coming we just need an FM for it. Our FM guy is gone for right now though.

[+Dave 2,322]

That's my question? JUst because you share something does that automatically open you up for both praise and CRITIQUE?

 

I don't think it does, at least not in an open forum. It would seem somewhat reasonable to PM an individual and say "hey, I noticed this or that". Then the person can reply in private and say either "thanks for pointing that out", or " it is what it is, thanks but I'm not doing any more with it."

 

Just because you share something with the community I don't think that's an invitation for evryone to pick apart your work publiclly; it's in poor taste and disrespectful.

 

Correct, constructive criticism is fine. But there is a fine line between that and rivet counting. Then you got rivet counters that have no clue what they are talking about. i.e. some have never even seen and F-4 in real life much less can tell someone who has worked on them "how it is"....