Mig-15Bis/Mig-17 cockpit near completion

[Guest Tazkiller]

Was fighting with the F2 Gun Val sabre against mig-17 and I outclassed it. Is the current mig17 FM so bad?!

 

 

Blackbird,

 

Stand by.

 

A complete F.M. update will be issued in a few days for F-86 Sabre/ MiG-15 models.

 

Tailored for use in W.O.I.

 

A whole new standard in ACM and aircraft preformance.

 

"It's So SWEET!!!!!!!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+ordway 23]

Blackbird,

 

Stand by.

 

A complete F.M. update will be issued in a few days for F-86 Sabre/ MiG-15 models.

 

Tailored for use in W.O.I.

 

A whole new standard in ACM and aircraft preformance.

 

"It's So SWEET!!!!!!!"

 

Taz,

 

I can hardly wait!!!!

 

One little issue, (and it might just be me) with the current Mig-15Bis User Mod model in WOI (which models the Mig-15's true quirks brilliantly!!!!!). I had a Meteor F-8 several times outrun me at sea level in WOI, because the Mig-15 would uncommandedly pitch up (which is what some would actually do-great!!!!) in level flight (mach .86?)and by the time I controlled it, the F-8 was way ahead and pulling sharply away and I would have to regain gobbles of speed and then it would happen again...so in effect, it seemed to me that the Meteor F-8 was effectively faster at sea level.

 

Is this the way you designed it (for this speed)?...and maybe this is fine because the player has to keep it at Mach .85 by playing with the throttle and speed brake?

 

Now if this is indeed designed this way, I would think that the F-86E (at least) would be massively faster at SL because it can go to the Mach .9 region at SL in straight and level. I know that the F-86s were in general better low-level performers compared to the Mig-15Bis which were much better at higher altitudes.

Edited April 7, 2008 by ordway

[+ordway 23]

The ADI is inverted. Today I got it confirmed by a former MiG-17 pilot to be sure. The ball always stays level with the horizon, so when you pitch up, you see more of its bottom (blue) and when you pitch down more of the top (brown) side is revealed. You should be able to replicate this with the .ini lines I've posted before. The strange thing is that modern russian ADI design is completely different. Here is a better pic of AGI-1(АГИ-1) ADI used on MiG-17 and some of the late MiG-15s.]

 

 

Here is the updated Mig-15 HSI thanks to your beautiful picture....thanks!

 

 

Note that it has rivets on the actual blue and brown ball like your photo! It also has the different " fluorescent white and brown/white-toned colors" for the numbering as well as the lettered markings for 30 degrees and 60 degrees on the bottom now.

Edited April 7, 2008 by ordway

[Guest Tazkiller]

I can hardly wait!!!!

 

One little issue, (and it might just be me) with the current Mig-15Bis User Mod model in WOI (which models the Mig-15's true quirks brilliantly!!!!!). I had a Meteor F-8 several times outrun me at sea level in WOI, because the Mig-15 would uncommandedly pitch up (which is what some would actually do-great!!!!) in level flight (mach .86?)and by the time I controlled it, the F-8 was way ahead and pulling sharply away and I would have to regain gobbles of speed and then it would happen again...so in effect, it seemed to me that the Meteor F-8 was effectively faster at sea level.

 

Is this the way you designed it (for this speed)?...and maybe this is fine because the player has to keep it at Mach .85 by playing with the throttle and speed brake?

 

Now if this is indeed designed this way, I would think that the F-86E (at least) would be massively faster at SL because it can go to the Mach .9 region at SL in straight and level. I know that the F-86s were in general better low-level performers compared to the Mig-15Bis which were much better at higher altitudes.

 

The reason for the pitching up is from the qoute

Over time, Ken discovered

the limitations of the MiG-15.

Though it was a more maneuverable

fighter at high altitude

than the F-86, the

MiG-15's top speed

lagged below its adversary.

The MiG-15 has

higher rate of climb and

higher ceiling since it's

thrust to weight and lift to

drag ratios are higher than

the F-86's.

Rowe says Soviet flight

instructors reminded

them to fly 1000 km/hr in

a combat zone. At an air

temperature of 60 degrees

Fahrenheit, 1000 km/hr

would translate into only

.82 Mach.

Rowe says, "That's not

fast. You go into a combat

mission and fly .82, and

you'd get killed right

away." The maximum

speed of MiG-15 is 0.95 Mach,

whereas the F-86 can slightly

exceed sonic velocity while diving.

This was used to model the behaviour of the aircraft and poor quality in the Korean War Era MiG-15

[+ordway 23]

[[Rowe says Soviet flight instructors reminded them to fly 1000 km/hr in a combat zone. At an air temperature of 60 degrees Fahrenheit, 1000 km/hr would translate into only .82 Mach.

 

 

Rowe says, "That's not fast. ]]

 

Yikes, I hadn't seen that before and good job on simulating it! ...and good jop on finding that. No Kum-Sok (Ken Rowe) in "A Mig-15 to Freedom" also states that he was instructed to enter the combat zone at "Mach .9." However he admits that the Mach meter was probably very inaccurate.

 

"Mach .95 was the fastest my fighter (Mig-15) could go." But again with his inaccurate Mach meter, it could have been much slower."

 

He also states that he went to Mach .95 in extemely steep dives...however the same inaccurate Mach meter statement stands of course.

[+ordway 23]

Blackbird,

 

Stand by.

 

A complete F.M. update will be issued in a few days for F-86 Sabre/ MiG-15 models.

 

Tailored for use in W.O.I.

 

A whole new standard in ACM and aircraft preformance.

 

 

Latest Mig-15/Mig-17 cockpit update for it!...taking streakeagle's suggestions....Much more moving instruments around, adding instruments and taking others away according to photos.

 

Added oxygen flow meter, Amps /Volts Indicator, Russian specific EGT Indicator, Russian specific engine fuel flow indicator, added gunsight cables.

 

Almost every instrument has repainted features compared to last week's version.

 

Edited April 10, 2008 by ordway

[+NeverEnough 78]

Wow, it sure looks like you've put a lot of effort into this! Thanks for all your diligent efforts, Ordway.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Wow, it sure looks like you've put a lot of effort into this! Thanks for all your diligent efforts, Ordway.

Ya, that does look good. You'd never know it came from A-4.

 

ordway, if the early MiG ADI seems confusing, do you recall the ADI used in early Ussian birds like F-84 and stuff? Early F-100s had the old style, but later got the modern style we are used to seeing.

[+ordway 23]

Ya, that does look good. You'd never know it came from A-4.

 

ordway, if the early MiG ADI seems confusing, do you recall the ADI used in early Ussian birds like F-84 and stuff? Early F-100s had the old style, but later got the modern style we are used to seeing.

 

Thanks for the input everyone. I am exhausted by this project.

 

So Lexx, do you mean the World War 2 type of ADI that was in the earlier American jet birds? I too am concerned that I want to do a realistic Mig-15 ADI version...but I just don't know how the poor non-pilot/non expert player can fly it. I am thinking of issuing a "regular" ADI version of the Mig-15 too. Any inputs?

[FastCargo 412]

Ordway,

 

I'd imagine most of that audience you are concerned about are looking outside. This isn't a hard IFR type sim anyway. I'd keep it like you have it.

 

FastCargo

[+starfighter2 112]

Yea Ordway, release it - looking very good.

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Yea Ordway, release it - looking very good.

Yep, its also very educational. I never paid attention to early jet age ADI's until the work of this sim's 3rd Party modders encouraged me to start looking around. The stock game jets all have the new versions, but they are more modern aircraft of course. I like the differences in ADI's, as it makes things more interesting.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,545]

Looks great, I enjoy every new Pit that`s avaible for us. This looks great. Thank you very much for your work.!

[Longestpants 1]

Ordway, this pit never ceases to amaze me, no matter how many times I look at the shots.

[Wolf65 0]

The pit looks great

[+ordway 23]

Yep, its also very educational. I never paid attention to early jet age ADI's until the work of this sim's 3rd Party modders encouraged me to start looking around. The stock game jets all have the new versions, but they are more modern aircraft of course. I like the differences in ADI's, as it makes things more interesting.

 

Here are some notes about the "upside down" ADI (artificial horizon) from a 1953 Mig-17 restauration.

 

"Look even closer at the attitude indicator...see anything wrong? This is the correct orientation brown on the top, blue on the bottom. Apparently the Russians hadn't figured out how to gear their gyros for proper indication that you would see today on an attitude indicator. Think of it this way, you rotate around the gyro...if you lower the nose you go up into the brown. If you climb you go down into the blue. Flying with one of these gyros takes some getting used to. I can't imagine being in the clouds with a case of vertigo."

 

He even reports his 1953 Mig-17 still using the round gunsight reticule instead of the USA six diamond one.

 

 

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...%3Doff%26sa%3DN

[Heck 496]

Ordway. It's beautiful. Just as it is. People will learn to fly it. Just as it is. Please release it. Right now it exists only in screenshots, which isn't doing anyone any good. If you decide to change it later, it can always be updated. I've downloaded many updated versions of things, terrains, etc. Right now, many of us are flying Korea again, now that Tazkiller and team have released their fantastic Sabre/Mig package. And Tazkiller is working on an update of his data.ini's to work in WOI patched. Fighter pilots jump on opportunities. Please jump on this one. You've done superb work. I'd love to be flying it. I'm hoping that you'll consent to release what you have.

 

 

Heck

[+Jarhead1 27]

I cant wait for this pit to be released either. Hey Ordway, u maybe planning on maybe making a new MiG-23 flogger pit too after this later on from the MiG-21 pits?

 

J/K

[+ordway 23]

I cant wait for this pit to be released either. Hey Ordway, u maybe planning on maybe making a new MiG-23 flogger pit too after this later on from the MiG-21 pits?

 

J/K

 

 

I just uploaded it. Next will be the Mig-17 cockpit version of it...

[kesegy 5]

thank you for releasing. outstanding!

[Heck 496]

Just got it. Thank you, Ordway.

 

 

Been test flying it. Love it. And thanks for the link, it has some great information, and if you burrow through all the associated links from the first one, you find a wealth of great discussions and more information. A great addition, Ordway. Thanks again.

 

Heck

Edited April 12, 2008 by Heck

[Guest Stiglr]

As to the yutz's whineing/gripping/complaing/whinging/in general making unappriciative noises about the AH, you can do several things:

 

1) Tell them to google the Mig-15/17 series for cockpit picture or;

 

2) Tell them to build their own, or;

 

3) Quote Bender from "Futurama" -- B.M.S.M.A. This one's my preference!!!

 

Great job Richard!! Really, who cares what they think!?

 

Wrench

kevin stein

 

 

Well, not to pee in anybody's Corn Flakes, but... you could also simply do a better job and be more accurate in creating your pits and head any "comments or unappreciative noises" off at the pass.

 

When your work is accurate it's also defendable. Just goes with the territory.

 

Criticism is natural, and welcome, to a modeler who takes pride in his work.

Edited July 17, 2008 by Stiglr