+Dave 2,322 Posted August 2, 2008 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25937758/ I missed this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shaolin 0 Posted August 2, 2008 That's the final evidence: smoking is unhealthy and dangerous! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+drdoyo 2 Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) Hmm, I know it's just the media, but I have to ask. Captain and XO relieved of duty.......so what happened to the sailor who was breaking the rules and policies by smoking in the unauthorized space? Theres no mention of that in the artical. I hope that person didn't just walk away for THEIR neglegence. Edited August 2, 2008 by drdoyo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herman01 0 Posted August 2, 2008 Thank god no one was killed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 628 Posted August 2, 2008 drdoyo, the sailor will pay for his actions... hope he has 70M$ available :P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted August 2, 2008 Jeez - well at least it looks like things have improved in regards to fire control - if you read about the damage caused by previous accidental fires ie USS Oriskany for one. Suppose it also depends where the fire starts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 934 Posted August 2, 2008 Thank god no one was killed. Amen to that Only you can prevent carrier fires...only you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mannie 21 Posted August 2, 2008 Amen to that Only you can prevent carrier fires...only you. You can say that again. BTW who can prevent carrier fires, Nesher? In that case I can prevent it too. I do not smoke on carriers. J/K Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jarhead1 27 Posted August 2, 2008 At least they didnt have it as bad as the Forrestal, so thinks could have been worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 628 Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) but of the Forrestal theu had the zuni fired at an A-4 that triggered the old bombs on it... big difference in my opinion ^_^ Mannie, i stopped smoking when i was five :P but to be honset, i hate people smoking near me so i'll probably never smoke in my life... haven't so far and i'll keep it up :) Edited August 2, 2008 by Nesher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jarhead1 27 Posted August 2, 2008 but of the Forrestal theu had the zuni fired at an A-4 that triggered the old bombs on it...big difference in my opinion ^_^ Mannie, i stopped smoking when i was five :P but to be honset, i hate people smoking near me so i'll probably never smoke in my life... haven't so far and i'll keep it up :) That fire could have made it to the ordnance magazine and made it worse Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nesher 628 Posted August 2, 2008 no argue there Jar.. lucky that didn't happen! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted August 3, 2008 ...so what happened to the sailor who was breaking the rules and policies by smoking in the unauthorized space? Theres no mention of that in the artical. I hope that person didn't just walk away for THEIR neglegence. It said that he was relieved of duty for sub-standard performance. More than likely he will be facing a court marshal Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
herman01 0 Posted August 3, 2008 What’s the limit on taking money from a service member for destruction of government property? Is it something around two months pay? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+drdoyo 2 Posted August 3, 2008 It said that he was relieved of duty for sub-standard performance. More than likely he will be facing a court marshal No man, it said the XO was relieved. From the artical: "The other officer was relieved of duty for substandard performance." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,322 Posted August 3, 2008 Well I bet you after this, no one will be allowed to smoke on a carrier anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bulldog 0 Posted August 3, 2008 I certainly hope so Dave. Luckily no one was killed this time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syrinx 13 Posted August 3, 2008 Very sobering. Fire is always bad, but somewhere like on a ship, confined space etc, truly terrifying. I think the culprit could do to have my fencepost treatment for starters. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+pcpilot 181 Posted August 3, 2008 Kinda surprising they held the CO and XO so accountable for someone elses actions. I know skippers are responsible for the ship they command but seems a bit extreme. There are always idiots and mistakes; a CO cant cover everything....geeze... Maybe he just forgot to kiss the admirals butt one morning and the admiral never forgot... I was on the Independance back in '77-'79. We had a fire on that boat it seemed at least once a month on average. If the Navy has brought the fire frequency average down in the succeeding years, they've done well. Those boats are floating fire-bombs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Typhoid 231 Posted August 4, 2008 Kinda surprising they held the CO and XO so accountable for someone elses actions. I know skippers are responsible for the ship they command but seems a bit extreme. There are always idiots and mistakes; a CO cant cover everything....geeze... Maybe he just forgot to kiss the admirals butt one morning and the admiral never forgot... I was on the Independance back in '77-'79. We had a fire on that boat it seemed at least once a month on average. If the Navy has brought the fire frequency average down in the succeeding years, they've done well. Those boats are floating fire-bombs. during the '77 cruise?!! Hi shipmate?!! it is absolutely normal to hold the CO responsible for what happens because he sets the command climate. What he does or fails to do sets the standards throughout, if things go well, he gets the credit and a star. If not...... For the XO to get canned too there was something that reflected on what he did as well. The XO is the guy who, as we referred to it, was in charge of "heads and beds" meaning he is responsible for the health, welfare and efficient running of the departments. Buried in the article is the tidbit that while smoking illegally in an off-limits space (which would just get the sailors fried at courts-martial) was that the smoking lit off "improperly stored flamable materials". Guess what that means........ A lot more than the CO and XO got fried on this one. That is just what made the papers. Not likely that the fire would have spread much. The confined spaces would have limited the spread depending on just what the "improperly stored materials" were. Highly unlikely that it would have reached ordanance spaces - wrong place on the ship - and even if it had there is always the magazine flooding system to control that. Fire aboard ship is no joke. Our training was top notch to be able to control that - absolutely one of the best schools that I ever went to. Indy early in '77 during workups. "The smoking lamp is out during venting of the aviation fuel system" (that means avgas - gasoline!! The venting was to prevent pressure buildup in the fuel tanks used to refuel the C-1 COD) Sailor on one of the aft sponsons says to himself - "I'm not smoking" and continues his assigned work - arc welding........!! You all can deduce the result...... One of those times that General Quarters was not a drill!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ruggbutt 45 Posted August 4, 2008 "I'm not smoking" and continues his assigned work - arc welding........!! You all can deduce the result...... One of those times that General Quarters was not a drill!!!! Reminds me of a foreman I had when I was a young man. I was painting a Sam's Club in Calexico, California with Dryfall, which is water soluble paint where the overspray mist dries when it falls 10 feet. We cleaned up our spray equipment with water but it didn't smell like regular latex paint, so being smarter than the average bear I read the label. It has solvents in it. One evening I'm spraying wayyyy far away from the guys that are welding the freezers in the middle of the store and my foreman says that we need to paint above the freezers and that I should drive the scissor lift over and start spraying. He said that the welders would leave once paint was flying. I explained to him that I was holding a flamethrower. He didn't get it. Paint pressurized to 3000 psi can do a lot of damage by itself. I saw a guy take off two fingers with the spray pattern...........Anyhow, I explained that no way was I going over there where the welders were. I got down off the lift, told the foreman to come with me and I pointed to the label. I told the boss that was the last order I was taking from him. The boss agreed. I ran second shift from there out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Jug 99 Posted August 4, 2008 That fire could have made it to the ordnance magazine and made it worse I am not as familiar with carriers as others, but I am very familiar with their strategic capabilities that they give to our nation as options. I will admit that I am not impressed when a out-of-place cigarette can do this much damage to the ship. What would happen with a hostile weapon hit. Entire survivability of the ship upon which this nation puts a lot of trust is brought into question. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+pcpilot 181 Posted August 4, 2008 during the '77 cruise?!! Hi shipmate?!! Indy early in '77 during workups. "The smoking lamp is out during venting of the aviation fuel system" (that means avgas - gasoline!! The venting was to prevent pressure buildup in the fuel tanks used to refuel the C-1 COD) Sailor on one of the aft sponsons says to himself - "I'm not smoking" and continues his assigned work - arc welding........!! You all can deduce the result...... One of those times that General Quarters was not a drill!!!! Came aboard her in Nov. 77 when she was in portsmoth Naval shipyard for 9 month ROH. We deployed to the Med in June 79 after a year or more in workups. Was in 4th Div as PO in Charge of the fantail. Yes, I was the one that painted all those pretty anchors on the bits back aft. Then moved to 3rd div to run liberty boats. Since ya put it that way, easy to see why the skipper would get his butt canned...too bad really. Cant take things for granted on a CV thats for sure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+pcpilot 181 Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) I am not as familiar with carriers as others, but I am very familiar with their strategic capabilities that they give to our nation as options. I will admit that I am not impressed when a out-of-place cigarette can do this much damage to the ship. What would happen with a hostile weapon hit. Entire survivability of the ship upon which this nation puts a lot of trust is brought into question. Carriers are tougher than you think. Damage control is a main mantra with the US Navy. You train, train, then train some more. It aint all ice cream and air conditioning. Many carriers have suffered catastrophic damage and still were able to either launch/recover aircraft or at least get home. It only takes a few minutes to have every watertight door closed and the survivablity of the ship just went up incredibly. Thats just last ditch defence for when the outer rings of defence have been peirced. You have the escort ships and subs, the carriers' own defensive weapons, the airwing and its combat air patrol, etc. Sinking or even seriously damaging a CV would not be an easy operation and it would likely cost whoever attempted it. Edited August 4, 2008 by pcpilot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C2Aaircrew 3 Posted August 4, 2008 Typhoid, you are absolutely correct, fire aboard ship is no joke. Have fought more than one myself. All were small thankfully. During our 84-85 cruise onboard the Eisenhower, had one joker get caught smoking in the forward JP-5 pump room during flight ops. Fortunately he was caught before anything happened. Still it earned him a trip to visit the C.O. in less than 24 hours. I hope that smoke was worth it, it cost him thirty days extra duty, thirty days restriction and one months pay. The clock on restriction and extra duty stops while the ship is underway. I guess some folks do not understand what "the smoking lamp is out during flight ops" means when announced over the 1MC/5MC. Fires happen all the time onboard ships. As was stated before, most are are small and contained before they get out of hand. I agree, one of the best schools I went to in the Navy was firefighting school. You also get refresher training. Like they say in the Marines, every Marine is a rifleman no matter what your MOS is. In the Navy, every sailor is a firefighter/damagecontrolman no matter what your NEC is. Which leads me to a question. Jarhead1, do FMF get shipboard/aircraft firefighting training before deploying aboard ships? Seems like a silly question. I don't remember meeting any Marines at firefighting school. It would seem aviation Marines would as the squadrons deploy aboard LHA's. Just curious. Yes, if one cigarette can cause 70 milliion dollars in damage, I seriously question this ships survivability, not to mention the training of the crew. Unless this figure also includes the operating budget for the amount of time she was out of service and cost of repairs. 70 mil is considerable amount of damage. So I would completely understand the relieving of the C.O and the X.O. As a LCPO, even though I was enlisted, I was still held responsible for everything the men under my command did as it was reflection of my leadership capabilities. Everyone is responsible for those under them, right on down to the lowest petty officer. So I'm fairly certain a lot more heads were rolling. Including department heads and division officers, CPO's, etc. Just like when the USS Stark was hit. Some officers were relieved or given letters of reprimmand (effectively killing their careers) and some CPO's and 1st & 2nd class petty officers were demoted for lack of leadership abilities under emergency/GQ conditions while others were promoted for showing exceptional leadership abilities under the circumstances. Bottom line is, in the military when s$#t happens, heads roll. And I don't mean port-a-potties on wheels. Anyway, sorry I got long winded. Thanks for listening. C2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
