Georgia moves against separatists

[Stick 773]

Man, are you really trying to bust my nuts??

 

You might be Pete almighty with modding skills and all, but what gives

you the right to react in such a retarded way?

I am picking no side in the conflict, and it seems the only

grudge you have is that at some point someone has disturbed

you enjoying the Olympics?????

DAMN, you are dense! I can understand most points of view ventilated

in this thread, and on this board, but you... you have serious problems!

I suggest you got to a dump shop and buy a nice uniform, go to an airfield

and buy a ticket to Georgia. Walk the walk, talk the talk, come back in one

piece and we talk further. until then, please refrain from comments which

are below standard. You really piss me off, and I bet I'm not the only one.

 

 

 

Muesli

 

The Olympics do stand for peace since time immemorial.

And world opinion does have a tendency of turning against the aggressor.

So methinks you speak for yourself.

[Silverbolt 104]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, topics have been merged.

 

Emotions are running high right now for obvious reasons. Language and cultural differences can easily cause misunderstandings of intent.

 

I urge caution when posting.

 

So far it's been relatively civil here...lets keep it that way.

 

FastCargo

 

 

just bumping

[Silverbolt 104]

The Olympics do stand for peace since time immemorial.

And world opinion does have a tendency of turning against the aggressor.

So methinks you speak for yourself.

 

IIRC in Kovoso both factions did a seace fire of 3 hours to watch the last episode of one brazilian novel callled "escrava isaura" i think.

[Silverbolt 104]

btw....i heard here .....one backfire was shooted down.... anybody saw the same news?

[GwynO 16]

"although to say that the ethnic Russian part was installed by Stalin conflicts with my knowledge that it was in fact, the Georgian ethnic part that was instead encouraged by Stalin. "

 

 

I am trying not to put too much feelings into this topic, rather to offer the facts as I have been told from my family, but Gepard has quite comprehensively described the timeline of events as I understand them, to quote him "- The exact date i havent found, but Stalin cutted off South Ossetia from Russian Federation and included it into Georgian Socialist Republic.

-1942 german forces reached the caucasus region and tried to start an anti russian revolution. They had only minor success, but Stalin banned hundret thousends of people to sibiria."

 

What I can add is that Stalin did not stop at banishing the Osettians who where unhappy at their land being given as his gift to his native Georgia, but filled up the empty spaces with Georgians, so began a long process of Georgification of the region as this guaranteed the Soviet power over the unhappy people that wanted independence, after the break up of the U.S.S.R things have changed, now Russian thought rules Russia, not big red ideas from Germany, Lithuania or Georgia.

[Canadair 16]

IIRC in Kovoso both factions did a seace fire of 3 hours to watch the last episode of one brazilian novel callled "escrava isaura" i think.

 

A topic that could have been intersting historically and politically going to s**t.

Gentlemen please, keep the quality high, and stick to "objective facts" without offending anyone, like many in this thread have done so far. We need, I think, no comment about how the georgia must pay fro breaking the olympics. but we also need no comment about those olympics being a "a communist show"; both commetns are definetely OT.

 

And please remember that the only good wars are IN OUR VIDEOGAMES

Edited August 9, 2008 by Canadair

[Stick 773]

IIRC in Kovoso both factions did a seace fire of 3 hours to watch the last episode of one brazilian novel callled "escrava isaura" i think.

 

 

Now that brings a smile to my face.

 

In fact wars should be fought in video games. The victors get to make love to the losing sides eligible(and consenting) ladies.Speaking of which Im being called to bed.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Stick

[Silverbolt 104]

the weird fact is:

 

the novel was talking about racial opression and freedom.

lol

 

after that i think they kill the brother with a bit more of concience of what he was doing.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Silverbolt

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Russia not only has the green light from that incursion (after all if its okay for us to do it then it must be okay) - but if the SO population is majority Russian then they have full justification AFIACS to protect their people.

Pardon me, but legaly speaking, you are not right. Unless all I've learned not so long away about international law has drasticaly changed. Whatever the ethnic majority of a territory is, it does not gave any right to a foreign country to intervene in its neighbour affairs. States are independent and total sovereign over their territories (up, that means kossovo war was totaly illegal)

Eraser is right ( By jingo! Am I typing this?! ): Russia's just acting like UK or France would have if they had join the CSA against the Union... Or just like India did in Eastern Pakistan. I want things to be clear: I just want to set who is wrong according to International Law, and IIRC, Russia is.

Moral, ethical and such issues are of course another matters. But even if Georgia's hands are not the most clean, I don't believe Russia's the best country in the world regarding minorities wanting to secede (Checheny not that far from Georgia indeed).

And of all CIS States, Georgia is indeed one of the most democratic and respectable.

 

 

Side note... Allowing Russia to act on some ethnic claims might be very dangerous. Remember that the Ukraine, most Baltic States and Central-asian ones all have seizable Russian minorities (quite prone to snivel to the Rodina). We don't want the same thing happening in a few months/years in Estonia or Latvia (both in EU and NATO...) or in the Ukraine and face military/energy blackmailing, don't we?

[Shaolin 0]

I think you are right, my Emperor

Claiming ethnic reasons as justification is pretty dangerous (reminds me of a time not too long ago - if you know what I mean...)! And it woul open the door for some pretty mean "invasion tactics" - you just have to relocate enough of your people to the region you want to occupy and claim it for your country...

[MigBuster 2,875]

Pardon me, but legaly speaking, you are not right. Unless all I've learned not so long away about international law has drasticaly changed.

 

 

Sorry you are misreading me - the bit in brackets is semi sarcastic - I'm basically saying that International law and recognised boundaries are not absolute - and are manipulated depending on who it is objecting to them or challenging them.

 

Russia will do what it likes in there - or whatever is in their best interests - no one can really do much if they want to stay there either - and no one is really condeming them either because they see the situation is not straight forward.

 

 

They have sent a NATO envoy to Russia I see - do you think they will be on Georgias side 100% by any chance?

[eraser_tr 29]

It's hard to be certain, but Bush has been very friendly with georgia and wanted to get them NATO membership.

 

The ethnic arguement is extremely dangerous.....essentially anyone could use that arguement against the US since we have people from everywhere in numbers probably equivalent to those in ossetia, even if its a smaller percentage of the population.

[Silverbolt 104]

i got the news here UN gave up to try found a peacefull solution... as usual.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Come on! Communist party's show is broken?! How saaaaad!

This is disgusting to read. You seem to care only about your Munich 1936 reenactement...

 

 

Munich 1936? Yep......

 

1936---1939

 

Didn't US start a war 3 years after his Atalanta Olympic games?

 

1996---1999

 

[eraser_tr 29]

Err, no wars in 1999 that we were involved in.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Err, no wars in 1999 that we were involved in.

 

Don't you think you'v frogot too much?...1999 Operation Desert Fox,Operation Allied Force

 

History is only history,reason is only reason.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Erwin_Hans

[eraser_tr 29]

(in best homer simpson voice) Doh! I remember kosovo being earlier than '99, but that wasn't us starting a war. That was NATO jumping into an existing conflict to stop a genocide, not to conquer a country.

[Erwin_Hans 6]

(in best homer simpson voice) Doh! I remember kosovo being earlier than '99, but that wasn't us starting a war. That was NATO jumping into an existing conflict to stop a genocide, not to conquer a country.

 

Isn't it killing?

 

Killing is killing,no reason.

Edited August 10, 2008 by Erwin_Hans

[Silverbolt 104]

it seems Georgia will not exist in few time.....

[+whiteknight06604 932]

"You are right but international law is another thing that seems to be banded about conveniently to suit some - although it wasnt used as much before going into Iraqs internationally reconised borders I must admit "

 

difference was Iraq was in violation of 16+UN resolutions and the UN voted that if Iraq didn't comply there would be dire consiquences.The UN faltered with the follow thru but the vote had been made,I remember no vote granting South Ossetia independence or any resolutions passed granting them protection.Completely differnt situations and not comparable.that said I'm not arguing that georga is inocent and they may well in fact be doing terrible things,the issue is the international community hasn't ruled and Russia is using the situation to further their own ends.It would be more akin to Southern New Mexico trying to leave the USA.there is a large ethnic mexican population and they were part of mexico as recently as 150 or so years ago.you'd be dead wrong if you said we didn't have a right to destroy any threat to the union and if Mexican troops entered South New Mexico to help the seperatist there would be a hell of a lot of dead mexican "peacekeepers" and rightly so.

Edited August 10, 2008 by whiteknight06604

[kesegy 5]

Georgia pulls out of S Ossetia http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7552012.stm

 

Meanwhile, a joint delegation of the US, EU and the Organisation of Security and Co-operation in Europe is heading to Georgia in the hope of brokering a truce.

 

It comes as a third emergency session of the UN Security Council ended without an agreement on the wording of a statement calling for a ceasefire.

 

It's official - the UN is dead.

[+whiteknight06604 932]

"We need, I think, no comment about how the georgia must pay fro breaking the olympics"

 

the Olympics are a sporting event and a TV show.I don't think wars should be scheduled around it.The olympic games are cute and important to the atheletes but after that they are just entertainment and a little bragging rights for nations.Sometimes they are used for propaganda.No one needs to pay for anything....geeez millions are spent on the games while wars and famine are going on around the globe if anything it's just diverting attention from important issues.This next statement isn't directed at anyone in particular but if the onlyway I can feel good about my country is to wait 4 years to win a soccor match then it would be better to spend the energy fixing my country

Edited August 10, 2008 by whiteknight06604

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

 

For some reason the caspian sea isn't showing up. Either on DEM or autotextured.

 

Its not at sea level and TE uses blue only for 0 altitude. You will have to manually fill it in and detail the coastline shape. If I recall, in TE you can "see" the sea by watching the elevation numbers as you move the mouse around that area and the elevation is constant -- its not zero altitude or TE would use blue.

 

For the same reason, I had to manually draw the Aral Sea in blue in the data bmp, the round blue ball at lower left...Same with Lake Baikal (just visible tiled blue here if you put nose to monitor) but the lake's much higher and thus more "rare" elevation allowed me to autotexture this lake, using doubled up exclusion regions to avoid Baikal~esque tiles appearing elsewhere in the map.

 

Edited August 10, 2008 by Lexx_Luthor

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

mmmm....

 

If that's your map, it may be possible to autotile Caspian. Find its altitude in TE with the import settings used, and identically define min and max tile altitudes at this value. A 1m spread may be needed.

 

With one exclusion zone defined in the initial tile definition, you can place all Caspian tiles in, say, the north. Another exclusion zone defined for the basic bmp (basic = non transition) section, and exclude the western tiling. Both exclusions together should restrict Caspian altitude tiles to the north east corner. Then fill in manually any Caspian altitude tiles that appear beyond the Caspian border.

[+lindr2 19]

GOD BLESS RUSSIAN ARMY!

 

On 00:00 Moscow time 8/08 2008 Georgian Amry without ultimatum, without any warning sirart artillery and air strike against sleeping 30 000 town Tsinwal,

more 1000 citizens are killed, most of them burning alive or died from smoke, because week ago georgia turn off site waterlines and firemen cant' works, more 70% houses of site was fully destroyed.

Georgian tank move to streets and open fire to russians peacemakers, but trey stand to last men, not looking for 12-x superior attackers. Many Georgians tanks were destroyed by RPG (Georgian was have more 250 MBT, 12 su-25 planes, some heli Mi-24, AH-1) and attacks was stopped.

After 14:00 Russsian Armor columns, croossing border, and go for for get help russian citizens ( more 90% south-osethians & abkhazians have Russian passports). Russian AF have control on S-O Sky and shotdown one georgian Su-25 on AA battle. (I seen tv picture on this episode on Russian TV) & get air strike on Georgians objects, troops and airbases. Russians AF loss on thises raids 1 Su-25 and 1 Tu-22M3, hitted by TOR-M buyed by Georgia on Ukraine.

More 5000 volonteurs moved from Russia to frontline at first day. One North-Osethian VG commanded by V Kaloev, men who kill suisse air dispatcher.

More 2000 SO peoples was killed at 2 day, 34 000 refugees moved on Russia, 22 500 registered and placed on Russian territory... It's not war, iT's GENOCIDE.

M.Saakashwili is military criminal !

 

P.S. 58-th army commander was wonded today by georgian sniper. Russian fleet stoping, and checking any ships, that moved to Georgia, to prevent weapons moving.

 

RUSSIAN ARMY SAVED 80 000 peoples S-Osethians nations from PHISICALLY elimination. I alltimes seen on Russian TV horrible pictures of destroyed houses, more death bodies on the streets, and escaped peoples, whos talk horrible things about georgians soldiers.

 

GOD BLESS RUSSIAN ARMY!