ECM Project

[column5]

Looking through some aircraft and weapons recently it occurred to me that certain community-configured ECM systems have their effectiveness set way too high. So I took a look at the values TK has assigned to the stock aircraft and pods, and extrapolated out a progression of ECM development in game terms that I think is well-balanced. Right now I have only looked at US systems, but my research indicates that both European and Soviet ECM development was slightly to moderately behind that of the US (I would rate European and Soviet systems produced before 1990 as 5 to 10 points below contemporary US systems, with the gap closing between 1991 and 2000).

 

Here is what I came up with...I'd be very interested to know what others think about this.

 

In general, internal systems for large aircraft such as the B-52 were more effective than the earliest pods and systems for tactical aircraft, mainly due to there being more space in the airframe and power available. I also have the ALQ-99 system for the EA-6B, EF-111 and EF-18G being a bit better than other contemporary systems due to their specialized nature.

 

[DWCAce]

Excellent research! I say keep going!

[pablo10692]

Nice research! I just didn't undertand one thing: the Types. Whata did you mean by 'Deception' and 'Dual Mode' ?

[column5]

Nice research! I just didn't undertand one thing: the Types. Whata did you mean by 'Deception' and 'Dual Mode' ?

 

Well, in really crude terms, a noise jammer attempts to overwhelm a radar with electronic...noise...and a deception jammer attempts to make the radar think the aircraft is in a different place in the sky, causing any SAMs fired to miss. A dual-mode jammer has both capabilities. Noise jammers can cover an area, while deceptive jammers only protect the aircraft carrying the equipment...in general.

[mppd]

Excellent! Just what I was looking for for my ALQ-71/87/QRC-160 pod project. Good work.

 

Mike D.

[+Crusader]

good table!

 

many AI radar data values int he aircraft data inis and dat ain avionic inis ( used by the player only) will have to be checked too.... since they are effected by the jammers.

[column5]

good table!

 

many AI radar data values int he aircraft data inis and dat ain avionic inis ( used by the player only) will have to be checked too.... since they are effected by the jammers.

 

 

Definately.

 

Interestingly, all of the stock SAM radars in WOI have the same search strenght, 80, but different track strengths. The Fansong, Flatface, and SA-8 radars all have a track strength of 75, while the Straightflush has a whopping 120 which explains why the SA-6 is so darn deadly.

[Guest pfunkmusik]

This is one thing I wish I knew more about.

 

Keep going, please. I'm really curious about your findings.

 

pfunk

[Stick]

So when flying escort its best to carry a noise jammer. Thanks for the heads up column 5

[pablo10692]

Well, in really crude terms, a noise jammer attempts to overwhelm a radar with electronic...noise...and a deception jammer attempts to make the radar think the aircraft is in a different place in the sky, causing any SAMs fired to miss. A dual-mode jammer has both capabilities. Noise jammers can cover an area, while deceptive jammers only protect the aircraft carrying the equipment...in general.

 

 

 

[column5]

So when flying escort its best to carry a noise jammer. Thanks for the heads up column 5

 

In theory, yes, but I haven't tested the effectiveness of that plan. Even better--swap out one of your flight for a fully loaded EA-6B! :D

[+Crusader]

I think that jammers protect only the individual plane which is carrying it... theres no buddy or flight protection ( in v08.30.06)

 

Re: noise the best .. dont forget the Home On Jam function which several SAM and AAM have.... wonder if that is really working though.

[Kirsten]

Thanks Column5, extremely usefull !!

Interesting thing would be a similar assesment of the WP stuff.

AIM 120B & C are almost useless against Fulcrum and Flankers as well against even

the old Blinder and I wonder if the AMRAAM is really that ineffective in real life .......

 

Aju,

 

Derk

[Fubar512]

I think that jammers protect only the individual plane which is carrying it... theres no buddy or flight protection ( in v08.30.06)

 

Re: noise the best .. dont forget the Home On Jam function which several SAM and AAM have.... wonder if that is really working though.

 

 

HOJ works quite well. Set up a common SAM type with HOJ, draw fire from a SAM site so-equipped, and toggle on your ECM. Pay close attention to any SAMs that weren't heading directly at you (before)...

[MigBuster]

Have any of the pods got towed Decoys?

 

Do the SAMs home in regardless of the jamming type? - 'Deception' jamming shouldnt present a target to a HOJ missile apparently.

[Fubar512]

Have any of the pods got towed Decoys?

 

Do the SAMs home in regardless of the jamming type? - 'Deception' jamming shouldnt present a target to a HOJ missile apparently.

 

In RL, deceptive jamming simply interferes with an enemy's radar by creating a series of "false" Doppler targets around the jamming aircraft.

[hide86]

Thanks Column5, extremely usefull !!

Interesting thing would be a similar assesment of the WP stuff.

AIM 120B & C are almost useless against Fulcrum and Flankers as well against even

the old Blinder and I wonder if the AMRAAM is really that ineffective in real life .......

 

Aju,

 

Derk

 

Definitely agreed, even the Phoenix has a hard time versus those bad guys...It seems like your best option regardless of the situation is to carry a hell of a load of aim-9s, especially the X "death-arrow-that-blows-you-out-of-the-sky-everytime" version

 

If you guys need help, just let me know, it'll be a pleasure!

[Fubar512]

Definitely agreed, even the Phoenix has a hard time versus those bad guys...It seems like your best option regardless of the situation is to carry a hell of a load of aim-9s, especially the X "death-arrow-that-blows-you-out-of-the-sky-everytime" version

 

If you guys need help, just let me know, it'll be a pleasure!

 

What's undoubtedly spoofing your missiles is not ECM. It's chaff. ECM in this series works by denying an opponent target acquisition.

[+Crusader]

HOJ works quite well. Set up a common SAM type with HOJ, draw fire from a SAM site so-equipped, and toggle on your ECM. Pay close attention to any SAMs that weren't heading directly at you (before)...

 

"good to know" ...

havent played with such tests for a long time :ph34r:

[MigBuster]

"good to know" ...

havent played with such tests for a long time :ph34r:

 

thought so - I know some of the later SA-2s used by the VPAF were HOJ - but the pods got round that by jamming the guidance commands so the things just crashed back to earth - not easy to model something so complicated really - just keep the HOJ box unticked

[column5]

Here is what the stock SAM radars look like:

 

[+Crusader]

only the Fan Song and Straight Flush are stock

Flatface is a gap-filler until we get a Low Blow model ... cant say something on the radar data atm.

SA-8L ... looks like its data is way off...

[column5]

only the Fan Song and Straight Flush are stock

Flatface is a gap-filler until we get a Low Blow model ... cant say something on the radar data atm.

SA-8L ... looks like its data is way off...

 

Hmm I'll have to look at a clean WOI install then. I guess we have some custom stuff in the MF weap pack.

[+Crusader]

yes, we do! ..

[+Typhoid]

I am somewhat "constrained" on responding.....

 

The various ECM techniques of the jammers are very complex. For the sim, some level of deception jammer strength combined with noise jammers is probably a good roll-up.

 

There is another part of the equation - The ECCM capabilities of the shooting systems to be able to look through and defeat the ECM deception and noise jammers is also key. (the unrealistic AMRAAM and AA-10 performances being examples of perhaps being not up to par with fielded systems)

 

not to mention the ability of air to ground, such as cruise missiles, in the same electronic environment.

 

I think the table is good.