Is campaign dynamic

[Red-Dog 3]

Is the Off campaign mode dynamic? If i do or don't complete a mission will it change the games outcome at some point?

[Olham 164]

No, RedDog - to prevent you and Widowmaker, Rickitycrate and myself,

from trying to win the war single-handed, they didn't do that.

But you seem to have an influence on your personal carreer. I think, when

you complete the mission task as good as possible, you might be promoted

to a higher rank earlier, whereas when you rather take on every dogfight and

collect kills, you receive more medals.

[tttiger 0]

Is the Off campaign mode dynamic? If i do or don't complete a mission will it change the games outcome at some point?

 

No, it's not dynamic. Not in the sense of the campaigns in Falcon 4.0 (11 years old and still the campaign champion and I still fly it).

 

In Falcon (F-16s modeled in great detail if you haven't tried it), you can halt an enemy attack on a key position by destroying his tanks or blowing up his artillery and your success will shift (slightly) the course of the whole campaign. Blow up a bridge and the enemy's ammunition and POL are slowed down and thus his ability to shoot and maneuver. Destroy a runway and his planes can't take off. Kill the engineers fixing the runway and it will be closed even longer.

 

On the other hand, if you fail in your mission, the enemy may well take that key position or defeat the attack of your ground forces.

 

What you do or fail to do REALLY matters.

 

I kind of wish OFF were that way so that a mission actually would mean something. Blow up a rail yard and the enemy gets low on shells. Shoot down a balloon and the enemy artillery (at least one battery) is blind.

 

The way it is now, it really doesn't matter if you save your hide and totally ignore your assigned ground targets (as some here brag they do) because, even if you blow them up, it doesn't change anything.

 

There is nothing at stake if you fail or refuse your mission. No reward for success and no penalty for failure (or cowardice).

 

All that said, the choice here was for historical campaigns and that means the script is written and the outcome will be the same whether you kill Goering (I've killed him five times) or destroy every hangar at an enemy airfield. Or not.

 

Kill him or miss him, Goering will be right back in action in the next mission and so will the Jasta that uses that airfield you just blew up in the last sortie.

 

I can forgive the lack of a real dynamic campaign because the historical aspect is so complete and so accurate. It's a brilliant job of recreating history.

 

But, no, you can't change that history so the campaign is not dynamic.

 

It's an "either...or..." choice.

 

ttt

Edited May 13, 2009 by tttiger

[shredward 12]

That was a choice on our part. What happened to individual pilots and their effect on the outcome of the war was so insignificant as to be ... insignificant. I can count on one hand the number of times where an individual action by a pilot affected the outcome of a battle, or had a significant effect on the hundreds of thousands of lives in the mud below. Yes, I used to love taking out all of the members of Ja 11 in RB, but OFF is a historical sim. MvR will die on 21 April, and not before. The whistles will blow on the morning of July 1, and 50,000 soldiers will not answer roll call the day after. And the little corporal will survive. We want you to feel, as far as you can, what it was like to be there, to play a tiny part in the cataclysm that was the Great War. Do your duty, survive if you can. Millions did not.

shredward

[Test Pilot 0]

I like it not being dynamic for the simple fact that the airwar didn't really do much, if anything, to affect the course of the war. Itd be nice if you could affect the outcome of a battle, but like in reality, the death and destruction was all in vain. Just try and survive...

[tttiger 0]

That was a choice on our part. What happened to individual pilots and their effect on the outcome of the war was so insignificant as to be ... insignificant. I can count on one hand the number of times where an individual action by a pilot affected the outcome of a battle, or had a significant effect on the hundreds of thousands of lives in the mud below. Yes, I used to love taking out all of the members of Ja 11 in RB, but OFF is a historical sim. MvR will die on 21 April, and not before. The whistles will blow on the morning of July 1, and 50,000 soldiers will not answer roll call the day after. And the little corporal will survive. We want you to feel, as far as we can, what it was like to be there, to play a tiny part in the cataclysm that was the Great War. Do your duty, survive if you can. Millions did not.

shredward

 

I understand completely, shred, and there isn't any middle ground.

 

But, "What if?"

 

What if you killed Goering? What if you dropped a bomb on the Little Corporal as he was scurrying between trenches carrying dispatches?

Talk about altering the course of history

 

It's great the way it is but whether or not you accomplish your mission is irrelevant. The orders you are given mean nothing at all.

 

So you can play a whole campaign by flying very high over your assigned ground targets (and get a "Mission Accomplished" just like Dubya) and avoiding AAA and running away every time you see another plane and get your 17 hours and so what?

 

Maybe if you don't destroy that rail yard as ordered, you will have to wait a looong time for a medal? Or maybe they even put you in prison for willfully disobeying an order. Or....

 

Tradeoffs....

 

ttt

Edited May 13, 2009 by tttiger

[tttiger 0]

Well, Al, some of us know it's all a fantasy and others think it's reality.

 

You mean a "parallel universe" isn't possible?

 

There's a signpost in the road up ahead. Next stop....

 

 

ttt

[OvS 8]

Well, Al, some of us know it's all a fantasy and others think it's reality.

 

You mean a "parallel universe" isn't possible?

 

There's a signpost in the road up ahead. Next stop....

 

 

ttt

 

 

Quite honestly, I prefer it to be what it is. The Germans lost because they ran out of men and good pilots. Even if you shot down Rene Fonck, it would not have had much effect, as you still had to contend with all the rest of the Entente lot.

 

Also, many pilots to this day have been found to have had inadvertently stretched the truth with kill numbers... as written many times in the book Bloody April, Black September. So, for you to have had a personal effect on the war, you'd have to drop some serious ordnance on many targets over a short period of time.

 

It just doesn't make sense to have had it end any other way.

 

When I made the add-on patch 'Ressurection' for my Hells Angels patch, I did just that. I kept Boelcke, Immelmann, and MvR alive till the end and changed history. It was cool, but it still did not feel right to me... stupid almost.

 

OvS

[+Polovski 460]

We know what you did, we just do not use some of the info yet. P4 we may well do.

 

One point, the idea is to make 17 hours whilst trying to do your duty to your best - not ignore everything and make 17 hours. If you take it that far you may as well sit on the field for 24 hours and have done with it ;)

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

Quite honestly, I prefer it to be what it is. The Germans lost because they ran out of men and good pilots. Even if you shot down Rene Fonck, it would not have had much effect, as you still had to contend with all the rest of the Entente lot.

 

Also, many pilots to this day have been found to have had inadvertently stretched the truth with kill numbers... as written many times in the book Bloody April, Black September. So, for you to have had a personal effect on the war, you'd have to drop some serious ordnance on many targets over a short period of time.

 

It just doesn't make sense to have had it end any other way.

 

When I made the add-on patch 'Ressurection' for my Hells Angels patch, I did just that. I kept Boelcke, Immelmann, and MvR alive till the end and changed history. It was cool, but it still did not feel right to me... stupid almost.

 

OvS

 

of COURSE you felt silly-- you didn't give Boelcke enough victories by the end of the war!

[Creaghorn 10]

of COURSE you felt silly-- you didn't give Boelcke enough victories by the end of the war!

 

yeah, and as long as i know OvS also let MvR get shot down in a me206 in WWII. and if i remember correctly rene fonck was found in paris, beaten to death by some mob who couldn't listen anymore his stories...

kurt wolff fell of a horse he was riding with his girlfriend, dying.

was pretty funny to read the stories what happened to who in this resurrection universe :-)

[+Winder 32]

Is the Off campaign mode dynamic? If i do or don't complete a mission will it change the games outcome at some point?

 

 

The campaign is not dynamic in terms of the player being able to affect history....ground war , ace kills etc are not affected by player.

 

However....

 

It is dynamic in every other sense:

 

1) The campaign air activity follows closely the build up of air power and the use thereof and changes over the course of the war and is demographically correct - some areas are quiet etc.

 

2) The balance of the air power is correct and changes over the course of the war and represents the swing of the pendulum in terms of air superiority from side to side.

 

3) Squadrons are all correctly allocated, located and move as they did including of course the players squad.

 

4) Real flights from these squadrons with their Aces take place in the region of operations - OFF does not use random spawns. These squads carry out their roles in the theatre - and you the player are not the focus of their attentions they patrol, bomb, and reccy all around you

 

5) Mission activities change over time to reflect the increased use of air power as it became recognised from early recon to ground attacks in the latter part of the war

 

6) Front lines move dynamically over time and the terrain becomes increasingly scarred as it did.

 

7) Major Historical battles take place in the correct locations and on time including gas attacks and the use of tanks when appropriate.

 

8) The option to have historically realistic weather or dynamically generated weather

 

HTH

 

WM

[Creaghorn 10]

The campaign is not dynamic in terms of the player being able to affect history....ground war , ace kills etc are not affected by player.

 

However....

 

It is dynamic in every other sense:

 

1) The campaign air activity follows closely the build up of air power and the use thereof and changes over the course of the war and is demographically correct - some areas are quiet etc.

 

2) The balance of the air power is correct and changes over the course of the war and represents the swing of the pendulum in terms of air superiority from side to side.

 

3) Squadrons are all correctly allocated, located and move as they did including of course the players squad.

 

4) Real flights from these squadrons with their Aces take place in the region of operations - OFF does not use random spawns. These squads carry out their roles in the theatre - and you the player are not the focus of their attentions they patrol, bomb, and reccy all around you

 

5) Mission activities change over time to reflect the increased use of air power as it became recognised from early recon to ground attacks in the latter part of the war

 

6) Front lines move dynamically over time and the terrain becomes increasingly scarred as it did.

 

7) Major Historical battles take place in the correct locations and on time including gas attacks and the use of tanks when appropriate.

 

8) The option to have historically realistic weather or dynamically generated weather

 

HTH

 

WM

 

 

that's why i absolutely love this sim. i am no rambo or anakin skywalker. i am just a very very small part of a war machine, who alone has not the slightest effect to anything, like a single ant has no effect (like it was in real). all i can do is my job as good as i can with survival as top priority. it's great to see the battlefields from above during an offensive. the increasing nml. eaten up villages and towns, watching barrages from above. wow.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I would have been surprised if OFF had a dynamic campaign similar to Falcon. WW1 aircraft simply didn't have such a huge effect on ground operations or the course of the war as modern aircraft do with their heavy armament and ability to cause damage to ground troops and infrastructure on a massive scale never before seen in the history of war.

 

In OFF, if I drop a bombload of about a few dozen kilos maximum on some unsuspecting target and even manage to hit something, it's a small miracle in itself. You don't win the war with such weak and inaccurate weapons!

 

A microscopically small cog in a huge machine, that's how I picture my pilot in OFF. :yes:

[Olham 164]

Exactly, Creaghorn.

The dynamics rather take place in your pilot's fight to survive all this.

My best pilot now has reached 15.30 hours, 49 claims, and 17 confirmed victories; it's August, 10th; war comes to it's final part.

The Entente is sending in more and more craft, and I feel like a child in a proud castle of sand, when the tide comes in.

All I can do, is give them a good fight.

 

The dynamic about my own fate is, whether I will survive it to the last day, or retire at the right moment, or die.

For me, that is good enough. I knew when I started, that the Imperial forces lost it in the end.

[Mr. Lucky 0]

So you can play a whole campaign by flying very high over your assigned ground targets (and get a "Mission Accomplished" just like Dubya) and avoiding AAA and running away every time you see another plane and get your 17 hours and so what?

 

And that's what separates those of us who play this as a sim or as an experience. You could've also done this in real life but in the end you have to look at yourself in the mirror. Same here. Anyone who's been in the military can tell you, it's not so much about for king and country or some high ideal or medals or glory. It's about not letting down your mates that drives you to do your job to the best of your abilities. Again, same here.

 

It all depends on what your goal is.

 

Now, given that, it might be fun to fantasize an alternate future ala Harry Turtledove. Such as...what if the Germans won, or America entered the war earlier, etc. All that would change the theater but I doubt it would change your role in it.

[Parky 8]

P4 we may well do.

 

 

Did I just hear you say "P4" ??? ;)

[Test Pilot 0]

One point, the idea is to make 17 hours whilst trying to do your duty to your best - not ignore everything and make 17 hours. If you take it that far you may as well sit on the field for 24 hours and have done with it ;)

 

I swear it was engine problems...

[OvS 8]

yeah, and as long as i know OvS also let MvR get shot down in a me206 in WWII. and if i remember correctly rene fonck was found in paris, beaten to death by some mob who couldn't listen anymore his stories...

kurt wolff fell of a horse he was riding with his girlfriend, dying.

was pretty funny to read the stories what happened to who in this resurrection universe :-)

 

LOL!! That was fun! I can't believe you remember that. :)

 

I think it was Boelcke, MvR I thing I had walking away from everything Nazi and becoming a recluse. I don't remember, I should go back and read it all again for some fun memories.

 

Rene Fonck, a fitting end. I based in on the demise of Rudolf Berthold who after the war, was over come by an angry crowd and stangled to death with the ribbon of his own Blue Max.

 

Even though I knew Fonck survived the war, and lived well into the years beyond WWII, I just thought it would be funny to read that he was worked over with a 2x4 in the back alley of some sleezy French brothel for not paying his 'tab'.

 

OvS

[Creaghorn 10]

LOL!! That was fun! I can't believe you remember that. :)

 

I think it was Boelcke, MvR I thing I had walking away from everything Nazi and becoming a recluse. I don't remember, I should go back and read it all again for some fun memories.

 

Rene Fonck, a fitting end. I based in on the demise of Rudolf Berthold who after the war, was over come by an angry crowd and stangled to death with the ribbon of his own Blue Max.

 

Even though I knew Fonck survived the war, and lived well into the years beyond WWII, I just thought it would be funny to read that he was worked over with a 2x4 in the back alley of some sleezy French brothel for not paying his 'tab'.

 

OvS

 

i have even added some text in your resurrection patch, too. i added a veterans day meeting of former foes, centuries later on a flight show, where MvR and james mccudden met and became friends for the rest of their lives.

[+Winder 32]

Did I just hear you say "P4" ??? ;)

 

Yeah that's the cat out of the bag I guess...

 

We are planning two things:

 

1) Some addon craft and squad packs for P3.....

 

2) And yes P4......I will not divulge the details but we are very excited about what it will bring....

 

 

WM

[Hauksbee 103]

Yeah that's the cat out of the bag I guess...

 

Hot damn!

[steve58 0]

[cptroyce 0]

>>And yes P4......I will not divulge the details but we are very excited about what it will bring....<<

 

Now that's exciting..the best keeps getting better!

 

 

Royce

[Parky 8]

Thanks Winder,

 

 

If you guys are "excited", I can't even begin to imagine what kind of magic tricks you might have up your sleeves. This is welcome news indeed. Some might wonder why my forum participation is somewhat limited recently. Simple- Too busy flying an already magnificent WWI sim. The wife hates it. Lots of potential marital partners around though, and only one Between Heaven and Hell. Easy math there....

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Parky