I'm really impressed with the mission generator

[Helmut_AUT 0]

To think that I ignored this series for so long... the dynamic created missions are the best stuff I've seen in a sim (maybe not Falcon 4.0, but I never tried that one).

 

In flight one (F-15A Fighter Sweep) I killed two MiG-21s, flew a 360 degree turn to check radar, called Control for nearest bandit and got "clear". Felt mighty proud of myself and formed up the flight again, was actually watching my 4th guy in external view - when suddenly green tracers hit him and almost fragged him. Number 3 sorted the remaining boggy, another Fishbed. Before we formed up again for the flight home, I had in fact no clue if #4 was still alive and pretty mad at myself for having been so careless in breaking off the initial engagement.

 

I've never before been jumped in a sim that models Radar and AWACS. Never ever. Here the era and mission dynamics are just right to make it happen.

 

In the other memorable flight today (A-7D CAS), I finally managed to kill the russian tanks BEFORE all my own died. I was seriously happy I had a few surviving ground pounders left on my side, and that I saved their butts, and so circled overhead to see if any single russky can was hiding somewhere between the wrecks.

 

Coming out of the last turn with eyes on the ground, suddenly my own tanks burst in a carpet of explosions, as four russky Beagles hit them. I got really pissed and shot two down with my Winders, the next with gun - I only flamed one of his engines in a fast pass, but as I turn around for another hit he explodes.

 

 

I mean, how crazy is this when you actually run into a CAS flight from the other side for the same battle? When you just saved the life of those tankers and next second they are all gone in a massive bomb carpet? A bit of "futility of war" impression here in fact, would make a good movie scene.

 

Was also impressed to see that the Fishbeds tried to run out of Sparrow range BVR, but as I closed they decided it wouldn't work, turned around and came to fight.

 

This is the best Air Combat single player (also in First Eagles) since... ever? IL-2 had some nice "random" moments, but nowhere near close to this.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Helmut_AUT

[+Dave 2,321]

This aspect of the sim never stops amazing me. The other day I was in a Block 10 Viper circa 1980. We are heading to a Russian airbase for a little raiding party. We were escorted by some F-15's. We got to the base when all of a sudden there was all these bright flashes. I was like WTF? It tuned out that a flight of F-101B's with AIR-2's showed up and started tossing them at the Floggers that were there to greet us. It was awseome.

 

Awhile back I was running a intercept mission in the F-106. Started out on the runway, went to full burner and took off. Just as my gear was coming up I saw a flight of TU-16's in the distance. I locked one up with an AIM-4 and pickled it off. One gets hit and they pass over me. I pull hard over and get on their tail. That is when I hear my wingman say he is going down followed by flashes of light. The Tu-16's dropped nukes on my base and fragged it and the rest of my flight. I was the only one to get airborne. Well needless to say I was a little pissed because I failed the mission and lost the base. But revenge was mine as I got a AIR-2 off and took out the rest of their entire flight. To this day I have yet to encounter that mission again. I wish there was a to save those random mission.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Yeah, maybe an idea for the next patches - have a "save mission" button at the debrief screen for a random single mission (or campaign mission too?), which adds it to the "Load a single mission" screen (which is empty in SF2E anyway, and not that full in First Eagles). Does this sound like something TK might consider , maybe for posting on the official boards? After all, during the debrief as long as you can REFLY, the mission has to be somewhere in the system still, and I would think the game would already be using the same format internally as with mission-generator designed ones, so maybe it's just a question of "writing them down" somewhere.

 

I kind of wanted this for First Eagles today, first time I ever had to intercept a flight of AEG G.IV. I failed two times and would have loved more chance for practice, but had to quit for time reasons.

 

With First Eagles, it's a bit of a shame that aircraft can not start before YOUR flight. That means you'll never randomly encounter enemy bombers over your side while flying to the front, because they are usually still on their ingress themself - seems the only downside of the current generator compared to, for example, IL-2 which spawns aircraft in air.

 

Advantage to SF2E compared to First Eagles seems that the "radius" of aircraft engagements is much larger, so you actually get random enemy action before you cross the front, and the Air Defense is ready too.

 

BTW, I deleted IL-2 and LOMAC from the drive today. While they have more details in some things (engine management in IL-2 versus always 100% throttle in FE... more proper avionics in LOMAC) they simple do not have the replay value and also IL-2 looks slightly dated compared to FE aircraft and cockpits, LOMAC really suffers from the static single player missions. For someone who for years ignored TK sims based on the "survey/light sim" myth I'm sure a convert now ;)

Edited July 25, 2009 by Helmut_AUT

[+Dave 2,321]

Welcome to the dark side.

[FastCargo 412]

When this sim is 'on', it really can be awesome.

 

I remember during a campaign, I'm on takeoff roll (at night) when I see the Chapparel unit next to the runway let loose with a missile...then the AAA unit lights up. As I get my wheels in the well, bombs start going off everywhere it seemed like...a flight of Floggers was attacking the base!

 

I manged to get airborne and eventually exact some revenge...but not before watching one of my wingmen literally get blown up with a missile during the takeoff roll!

 

FC

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Kowalski - how is that possible? I thought in Thirdwire games all friendly and enemy flights start on the runway when you launch the mission. At least that's what I heard about First Eagles.

 

So it is in fact possible to get surprised early, even during takeoff by enemy already airborne?

[Fubar512 1,350]

This morning, I spent considerable time researching SA-8 TELARs, namely, the search, acquisition, and uplink frequencies used by them in real life. I inputted that data into the SA-8 model's data.ini I also programmed an F-16A Blk 10 , modeling accurate radar and RWR capabilities for that block, and did the same for several ECM pods. I then sent it to my crash test dummy (USAFMTL), and afterwords, we compared notes on our test flights...

 

 

During the early 1980s, it was difficult to jam an SA-8 in search mode (assuming that your RWR was even capable of identifying its 15 gHZ signal), but it was possible to jam its acquisition mode...providng you were far enough away at the time. It was neat watching an "unknown" emitter suddenly turn into an "8" symbol on the Viper's RWR display, as it went from search to track mode, and even more gratifying watching the SA-8 missiles passing harmlessly behind me...

 

So much for the "lite" sim scenario....

[+Dave 2,321]

Kowalski - how is that possible? I thought in Thirdwire games all friendly and enemy flights start on the runway when you launch the mission. At least that's what I heard about First Eagles.

 

So it is in fact possible to get surprised early, even during takeoff by enemy already airborne?

 

Yep just as I was telling you about the TU-16's. They were almost on top of my base when I scrambled. You can go into the gameplay options and decide if you want to start on the ground, in the air or near the target.

[+EricJ 4,150]

BTW, I deleted IL-2 and LOMAC from the drive today. While they have more details in some things (engine management in IL-2 versus always 100% throttle in FE... more proper avionics in LOMAC) they simple do not have the replay value and also IL-2 looks slightly dated compared to FE aircraft and cockpits, LOMAC really suffers from the static single player missions. For someone who for years ignored TK sims based on the "survey/light sim" myth I'm sure a convert now ;)

 

What's kept me interested in Strike Fighters series is it doesn't require a PhD in coding to get something new added into the game. As said... there's a wide variety of aircraft, time periods, in one sim. LOMAC I always liked, but it's limited coding well, forced me to delete it, and haven't gone back. Sure not as expansive and detailed as LOMAC, but they just released a Nevada terrain years after it was released. Here? I got like eleven different areas of the world, and all I did was extract it from an archive, dropped it where it needed to be, and flying the skies...

[Caesar 305]

Kowalski - how is that possible? I thought in Thirdwire games all friendly and enemy flights start on the runway when you launch the mission. At least that's what I heard about First Eagles.

 

So it is in fact possible to get surprised early, even during takeoff by enemy already airborne?

 

Like Dave's encounter with Tu-16's, it's happened to me on several occasions as well. Most recently I did an 8-plane Fighter Sweep with me in an F-14A, then my flight in F-15C, -16A, -18A, E, F, -22, and -35A (just for kicks) and we got jumped while on the runway by 8 Flankers. I got airborne, as did the -15 by the time they reached us, but they bagged most of the planes while they were still taking off. I think there were three that made it through that including myself, the F-15 and one other plane (can't recall if it was the -22 or one of the bugs) but it certainly wasn't the first time it happened either.

[Gr.Viper 131]

One of the surprises the campaign generator gave me was a recon mission in which our flight (2 F-4Ms, sparrows , no 'winders) got bogey warnings approaching the mission waypoint. I looked at map/"datalink" and saw a) waypoint in the centre of a city, b) us entering the city from SW, c) red plane entering city from NE, d) red plane entering city from SE. RWR went crazy. Turned out they were all Floggers, 6 or 8 of them total. The wingman got out of this alive, I didn't.

[+PureBlue 71]

Kowalski - how is that possible? I thought in Thirdwire games all friendly and enemy flights start on the runway when you launch the mission. At least that's what I heard about First Eagles.

So it is in fact possible to get surprised early, even during takeoff by enemy already airborne?

 

I think this only happens in Campaign mode, which has interesting features of its own. Like parked aircraft are actually fighters/bombers based on that airbase. And the more you destroy, the less planes that enemy squadron will have. Same for you. Supply of equipment becomes important as it all unfolds.

[+Stary 2,427]

LOMAC Nevada is just a repaint of parts of the southern map, at least so it says on the web.

 

Once, over a year ago, testing the then new Gepard's Taiwan map, I had quick CAP over China, just to find out large enemy flight lined up on taxiways. Man, I tell ya, going guns on these poor Flankers before they took of was so memorable moment! Then we had low level furball over the OPFOR base with those that finally managed to take off, with green tracers from ground defences all around us, one finally got me Amazing!

 

Yesterday, flying FE, my Alb's engine was hit by that Nupe, but I cut the throttle, and managed to land with small engine fire, without spreading to whole airframe. Survived. Captured.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

I think this only happens in Campaign mode, which has interesting features of its own. Like parked aircraft are actually fighters/bombers based on that airbase. And the more you destroy, the less planes that enemy squadron will have. Same for you. Supply of equipment becomes important as it all unfolds.

 

Holy cow. So the supply level of an airfield attached squadron can be reduced by hitting their parked stuff outside? Oh boy, there really is more to this than meets the eye.

 

Anyone has a clue if the "raided at takeoff" scenario or similar also happens in First Eagles? There it seemed to me the first half of the flight to the front was pretty carefree - which is a shame, since I like to navigate by map and hand, yet not if there's zero chance of enemy encounters.

[MigBuster 2,879]

Kowalski - how is that possible? I thought in Thirdwire games all friendly and enemy flights start on the runway when you launch the mission. At least that's what I heard about First Eagles.

 

So it is in fact possible to get surprised early, even during takeoff by enemy already airborne?

 

 

This is something TK introduced (or became more prevalent) for the Wings Over Israel campaigns - although there has always been intercept missions where the bombers are over the base soon after you get airbourne.

 

When you enter the sim initially there will often be other planes already airborne - what I meant about FE was that planes only spawn on the ground 'after' you have started a mission - as in they dont just appear out of thin air.

[MigBuster 2,879]

The Nov 2008 version of FE should be at the level of the last WOI/WOE etc so should think so.

[Gr.Viper 131]

Holy cow. So the supply level of an airfield attached squadron can be reduced by hitting their parked stuff outside?

I saw a MiG squadron with strength 20+ in SF2:E campaign. Strafed the field on A-10 destroying 5 parked aircraft and a number of structures. Next day that squadron was reported to have strength of 15+ and as I was flying through that area I saw that the buildings wrecked the day before remained ruins.

 

Same applies to your squadron. Even in normal state-funded campagns (SF2 mercs have to buy each plane). If you "break" the plane and bail out, your squadron will be one plane short. Keep doing stuff like that and losing wingmen and one day you might discover that there's no plane to put another newbie in.

[MigBuster 2,879]

Holy cow. So the supply level of an airfield attached squadron can be reduced by hitting their parked stuff outside? Oh boy, there really is more to this than meets the eye.

 

 

Heres the official version

 

 

Well, many things you do can affect the campaign.

 

All the static aircraft (fighter and bomber types) are drawn from the campaign squadron, so destroying them would directly reduce the number of aircraft they have available. Similarily, destroying tanks affects the ground units strength.

 

Transport aircraft (both on the ground and in th air) "carry" virtual supply, so their destruction reduce the resupply the unit is set to receive.

 

There are other indirect effects, destroying hangars may also reduce the number of aircraft they have available in the future, and destroying warehouse and fuel tanks also affect their supply status. But these effects are more indirect, and may not be noticable from mission to mission.

[eraser_tr 29]

The Tu-16's dropped nukes on my base and fragged it and the rest of my flight. I was the only one to get airborne. Well needless to say I was a little pissed because I failed the mission and lost the base. But revenge was mine as I got a AIR-2 off and took out the rest of their entire flight.

 

Edited loadout.inis to carry nukes as a default for strike missions? or another undocumented SF2 feature, AI flight selecting different loadouts on their own?

[FastCargo 412]

Edited loadout.ini I would imagine...the engine doesn't get THAT creative.

 

FC

[Helmut_AUT 0]

MiGBuster, thanks for explaining the airborne flights. Wow, "virtual cargo" - warehouses as supply stores - that is a mighty campaign engine.

[+EricJ 4,150]

Anyone has a clue if the "raided at takeoff" scenario or similar also happens in First Eagles? There it seemed to me the first half of the flight to the front was pretty carefree - which is a shame, since I like to navigate by map and hand, yet not if there's zero chance of enemy encounters.

 

Note you can get raided at takeoff too by the Enemy/Friendly side too. I took off in SoCal in an Su-27 and all of a sudden I had four F-15D ACTIVEs greet me with Sparrows as soon as I got the gear up. Not fun stuff and one reason I don't fly Red jets that often, I don't get "greeted" too often when on the Blue side.

[Oswald Bastable 0]

Too bad we can't save the mission generated.

Perhaps the game makes a file somewhere we could grab?

It would be fun to edit these.

[+Tailspin 3]

You'll get "scramble" type missions in First Eagles when flying Defensive Patrols where the enemy is attacking your airfield. They don't always take off after you do.

 

As for the entire Thirdwire series, well if you listen to its "critics" you will be given all kinds of reasons not to like Thirdwire sims. Most are just plain wrong. Uninformed comments made by folks who never spent the time to really explore the sims. Often by the "button pushers" who never got past the fact that Thirdwire sims are not "button pusher" sims. You know who I mean. Those types that would rather spend all their time on the ground getting ready to fly instead of actually flying combat missions. Then there's the "Dynamic campaign" nay-sayers... Seems some folks need any excuse they can find to NOT try Thirdwire and discover whats really in there. Thirdwire sims might be more fun and challenging (or even "immersive"...there's another one) than they would like to admit.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Tailspin