To Drop External Tanks, or Not?

[Oswald Bastable 0]

Well if I am burning around on afterburner all the time, I couldn't help but think "tactically" when to drop tanks or hold on to them if they still contained fuel.

 

Your thoughts or opinions?

[Oswald Bastable 0]

I have been flying the "Thud" in the WoV instant combat scenario.

 

Reading a lot of "Top Gun" literature as well as Osprey books on the Israelis' use of the Mirage, I was why not apply vertical tactics to the "Thud".

Its less maneuverable than the F-4 but has a powerful engine.

With that said I seem to be burning a lot of fuel around the battlefield.

 

Should the afterburner always go off after 70% thrust? Is this realistic?

[ShrikeHawk 384]

I drop tanks as soon as I sight the enemy or get a call from red crown that bogies are in the area.

 

Drop tanks significantly affect your maneuvering. If you think you'll need to maneuver, you should drop them. I also drop before entering a bombing run. I doubt the game models this, but it just seems foolish to be toting around huge gas tanks with flak going off everywhere around you. A single hot piece of shrapnel could end your mission with a real bang...

[+EricJ 4,245]

AFAIK it hasn't been modeled, as far as flak hitting the tanks and setting them off. 9 times out of 10 I keep the tanks regardless, empty or full. And I keep them on due to alot of low level flying, need every drop...

[Oswald Bastable 0]

Oh yes I suppose I am somewhat thinking crazy "cool hand" style.

How much does the damage model, model flak shrapnel?

Also does the hard setting incorporate problems with dropping the external tanks?

 

From reading I guess this was a real concern with the wing tanks that they would not fully disconnect.

I imagine pulling some hard Gs would exasperate this effect.

 

But do you see where I am getting at if the battle is vertical and thrust rather than horizontal and turning? You burn a lot of fuel, nice to have a lot.

 

 

 

 

I drop tanks as soon as I sight the enemy or get a call from red crown that bogies are in the area.

 

Drop tanks significantly affect your maneuvering. If you think you'll need to maneuver, you should drop them. I also drop before entering a bombing run. I doubt the game models this, but it just seems foolish to be toting around huge gas tanks with flak going off everywhere around you. A single hot piece of shrapnel could end your mission with a real bang...

[Oswald Bastable 0]

CC Thnx Eric about Damage modelling

[xrearl 27]

Drop them. When you crash the crash crew has a smaller fire!

[Oswald Bastable 0]

No I don't plan to crash just blaze around the sky like Buck Rogers.

 

I think it is very hard to be disciplined not to get into a turning battle.

 

I think there is a expectation of luxury of space with this type of combat however.

[JG7_X_MAN 0]

Well if I am burning around on afterburner all the time, I couldn't help but think "tactically" when to drop tanks or hold on to them if they still contained fuel.

 

Your thoughts or opinions?

 

Well here is my 2 cents - it depends on the situation. I usually hang on to them until afer the merge. I like to use the after burners to extend (climb out of the combat area), then drop before I rengage (turn back into the fight at a more favorable/advantegous position).

[Oswald Bastable 0]

Thx Jg7XMAN, I was thinking this way also. To pop up to a more energy alt and then drop back into the fray.

 

 

Well here is my 2 cents - it depends on the situation. I usually hang on to them until afer the merge. I like to use the after burners to extend (climb out of the combat area), then drop before I rengage (turn back into the fight at a more favorable/advantegous position).

[Viper6 3]

No I don't plan to crash just blaze around the sky like Buck Rogers.

 

I think it is very hard to be disciplined not to get into a turning battle.

 

I think there is a expectation of luxury of space with this type of combat however.

If you're flying on AB soon your motor will over heat(on hard settings) The THUD is best used at low level, taking her into the vertical is just asking for death (on hard settings) But as you said your just doing single missions try Linebacker I or II into the north and you'll see what a lot of us already know.

[Oswald Bastable 0]

I have to admit I have been flying on normal settings, the flight model seems so heavy and sluggish on hard.

Slowly I am making the settings more difficult as I learn the game.

Nice to know the AB is limited in hard.

With no penalty that is why I was like "hey" why not burn a lot of fuel. Makes sense the engine would burn out.

 

 

If you're flying on AB soon your motor will over heat(on hard settings) The THUD is best used at low level, taking her into the vertical is just asking for death (on hard settings) But as you said your just doing single missions try Linebacker I or II into the north and you'll see what a lot of us already know.

[FalconC45 162]

I drop mine as soon TAC calls out threats. Having DT's in a dogfight is quite a suicide. DT's will cause you to bleed energy like a bad cut in vertical (and causes you to drink more fuel in the DT's) and in WVR ACM. I like to have less drag as possible to sustain my e advantage.

 

Falcon

[jomni 6]

I usually drop them when the engagement starts.

 

More modern jets are still quite maneuverable with drop tanks attached like the EF2000.

I also keep drop tanks in BVR fights.

[Viper6 3]

I keep them as long as possible...til the furball is forming

[Viper6 3]

I have to admit I have been flying on normal settings, the flight model seems so heavy and sluggish on hard.

Slowly I am making the settings more difficult as I learn the game.

Nice to know the AB is limited in hard.

With no penalty that is why I was like "hey" why not burn a lot of fuel. Makes sense the engine would burn out.

The THUD is heavy and sluggish when you try to make her do things she is not made to do lol especially fully loaded

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Normally in SF2E I calculate my fuel so that I fly on external for the inbound leg, and on internal for the way home, with about 20 minutes reserve or a few minutes burner. I don't carry excess external (only one or two instead of three if range is not an issue) just the amount I need to have fuel + reserve.

 

BVR I keep them, I throw them in the first turn after the merge when I'm really committed to a winder/guns fight, not before. They are usually empty by that time anyway. If no WVR fight, then I might as well bring them home since the campaign tracks ammo and tanks, doesn't it?

 

It's a shame wingmen are so quick to drop their stuff, especially if you just tell them to land (Return to base). Waste of good stores.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Helmut_AUT

[Vampyre 24]

In a real squadron the drop tanks are a limited commodity. Chances are that if you drop them there will probably not have replacements immediatly available. I take enough fuel to complete my mission and do not drop the tanks unless absolutly necessary to simulate reality.

[Helmut_AUT 0]

Yep, especially in the modern years (1990 and onwards) I also learned from my squadron visits that "drop tanks" are in name only most of the time.

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

Jep and in that case i do not like the ctr+j control.

there with you drop the tanks and the weapons. better would be that you only drop with ctrl+j the weapons and with ctrl+d (as it is) the drop tanks only...

[+Jug 99]

Yep, especially in the modern years (1990 and onwards) I also learned from my squadron visits that "drop tanks" are in name only most of the time.

Extra drag and weight is extra drag and weight. If the flying model is correct you should be lighter, faster and quicker without drop tanks. Aerial combat survival is all about gaining an edge. Don't give your opponent and edge and get all of the small factors on your side that you can. No prizes for second place.

 

I enter into combat Air to Air or Air to Ground without the drop tanks. I, also, tell my flight when to drop theirs too. Clean is fast, speed is life. Don't ever forget it or compromise. Punch them off near the expected fight (usually prior to the IP - square box on the map). It is a good combat habit to get into regardless of the era or the aircraft.

 

Besides, think of all the jobs you are providing, requiring new tanks for every mission............

[Helmut_AUT 0]

It is a good combat habit to get into regardless of the era or the aircraft.

 

Nope, that is just incorrect. At least in the Air War over Bosnia and currently Air Support in Afghanistan, drop tanks are not dropped as a habit.

 

I just found this discussion at keypublishing http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=56511 which has some interesting infos

 

Costs: RUAG just got an order by Gripen International over 4 Million Euro for 60 tanks for the Gripen. Supersonic tanks are not sooo cheap.

 

Unconfirmed number, but if true - over 65.000EUR per tank. Even if we cut that in half for older designs, at 30.000EUR it far exceeds the price of unguided ordnance.

 

Obviously in an all-out Russia vs. West engagement economics matter less, but it's also a question of supply. In peacetime, I doubt that any squadron has more than six tanks per plane on store.

 

Last, if you are air refueling, it seems at least some AC can fuel up the tanks too. So having them on the way back might mean one less stop for fuel.

Edited July 28, 2009 by Helmut_AUT

[+Dave 2,322]

I don't punch them until them until I have to.

[+streakeagle 871]

Since this is a game and neither your life nor your wallet are at risk, do as you see fit.

If you think you need the gas, keep them.

If you get into trouble and need better performance, drop them.

This game does penalize your drag and weight, but it does not seem to affect your structural integrity.

Whereas, in real life, extra weight means reduced maximum g-load limits.

For example, the F-16 may be a 9g dogfighter with only AIM-9s on the wings, but it is generally a 5g fighter with any useful load such as fuel tanks and bombs.

 

I usually keep the tanks all the way to the merge.

When I spot bandits, I accelerate with full a/b into a head on pass with AIM-7 Sparrows (flying F-4 Phantoms), punch the tanks as I go by them, then re-engage by pitching up into the vertical.

But I can and have completed many air-to-air and air-to-ground missions without ever dropping the tanks.

If I were you, I would do whichever is more fun for you rather than worry about what others think.

If you are concerned about being realistic, you can still go either way since there are plenty of examples of pilots always dropping their tanks or trying not to drop their tanks as the situation required.

[+streakeagle 871]

Extra drag and weight is extra drag and weight. If the flying model is correct you should be lighter, faster and quicker without drop tanks. Aerial combat survival is all about gaining an edge. Don't give your opponent and edge and get all of the small factors on your side that you can. No prizes for second place.

 

I enter into combat Air to Air or Air to Ground without the drop tanks. I, also, tell my flight when to drop theirs too. Clean is fast, speed is life. Don't ever forget it or compromise. Punch them off near the expected fight (usually prior to the IP - square box on the map). It is a good combat habit to get into regardless of the era or the aircraft.

 

Besides, think of all the jobs you are providing, requiring new tanks for every mission............

 

Spoken by a pilot whose "external tank" was a specialized version of a KC-135