open letter to OBD

[Winston DoRight 3]

I thought the purpose of patches was to improve the game. In the latest 1.32 super patch and mini patch incarnation some nasty features have got me one step away from removing this sim from my hard drive.

 

In my opinion this was a much better simulation a few patches back. It seems like things that don't need fixing are getting changed (for the worse) while other issues are overlooked. Just the other day someone said to me: "Oh great, another patch. This is getting worse than Red Baron."

 

Are you really sure this is a direction you should be going? Changing things that don't need to be changed and fixing things that don't need to be fixed is a giant step backwards and it's sending out the wrong message. People think that OFF is so badly broken that all these patches are needed just to make it work. Each new patch gives the impression that something is very wrong with the product and you're constantly trying to fix it. What I'm hearing from people is this sim is not getting better, you're just changing it to meet your agenda, and by doing so are making it effectively less satisfying for users that have enjoyed this from the beginning.

 

With the latest patchs there are now fewer planes in the players flights, now you're always outnumbered in every sortie no matter which side/squadron/Jasta/date you fly. Who wanted this? Was this a problem in the previous version? Did people complain about how you could select a higher number of planes in your flight and thus make it more even sided? Why didn't you limit the opposing forces to match?

 

And what's up with the objectionable and distracting volume of artillery fire? You're flying along far behind your own lines with no shell strikes visible anywhere around you and you're constantly hearing this. Who wants this?

 

Are you trying to make this sim so difficult and annoying that people won't buy it or current users will stop using it? It's time for you to end this madness and move on to phase 4. You need to step back for a moment and take a hard look at the path you're taking.

 

Please, please no more patches/changes/improvements/disappointments to phase 3. I'm one step away from outta here.

[77Scout 3]

Can't please everyone I guess. Most people like the new patch, so I think you will find yourself in the minority. Most of what I see in the latest patch is, in my opinion, a great upgrade. The new winter trench terrain tiles in particular are fantastic (the earlier ones were not 'broken, but merely great). The artillery sound has been explained in numerous threads and can adjusted.

 

Bottom line: There is no law saying you have to use the latest patch, so if you liked the earlier versions, just stick with that...problem solved. With such a simple and obvious solution, why would you be talking about deleting the game from your system?

 

I personally appreciate that the OFF team constantly works towards more and more realism, and am impressed more and more with every upgrade that comes out (patch is not really the right word).

[Barkhorn1x 14]

To each his own I guess.

 

To me, when I see patches that ADD new content I think; "Wow, the devs care about their product and want to improve things." And, IMO, that is exactly what the Super patch and mini patches have done.

 

In my opinion this was a much better simulation a few patches back.

You mean before OBD fixed the "clouds of death"?

 

And what's up with the objectionable and distracting volume of artillery fire?

Guess you missed the sticky about getting MORE sound options that enable you to adjust sound to taste.

 

And what's with...

Just the other day someone said to me...

People think that OFF is so badly broken...

What I'm hearing from people is this sim is not getting better...

 

Who exactly are these mysterious "people" so bothered by this blizzard of patches? Do you speak for a group of OFF aficionados who don't have regular internet access to these boards?

 

I'm one step away from outta here.

 

Duly noted.

Edited August 13, 2009 by Barkhorn1x

[Hellshade 110]

Then install the sim fresh and don't patch. Does it get any simpler? Seriously. How would that solution not solve every single complaint that you have?

 

Hellshade

Edited August 13, 2009 by Hellshade

[Mr. Lucky 0]

He's entitled to his opinion and certainly to voice it here. I am extremely interested in WWI aviation and, as usual, OBD has raised the bar for all others. The new patch has taken the terrain up several notches in realism. the plowed fields, undulating terrain, trees, etc. and it looks almost exactly like the terrain I fly over. The haze at altitude is spot on. My last mission 4/1917 for 56 squadron, I took off with three in my flight and six in the other. We headed to our patrol sector and as we neared the lines, I saw a cluster of AA bursts like never before. All concentrated and tracking some target. Suddenly, I saw three speck move out from amidst the flak but couldn't make out the type. I expected albatrosses. As I got close, I realized they were enemy 2 seaters just as the tail gunner opened up. I ordered the attack, circled back and as I approached again, I saw my wingmen send one down smoking. I opend up on another who did the same to me. My engine died and I saw flames coming back at me. All of this never happened before, so thanks to this latest patch, OFF is the most realistic I've ever seen. Yes, the sound need some tweaking now. I don't like the levels, but, as WM wrote, they can be changed and customized. I think I'll do that instead of uninstalling OFF (like I would ever do that!). I mostly just wanted to express how incredible I think this patch is and am continually pleased at the work and support done by the OBD team.

[Bullethead 12]

Winston-

 

I'm seriously not understanding your problems here. AFAIK, 1.32 only fixed 1 real problem, that of the SPADs' flight characteristics. If you ever flew the SPAD before 1.32, you'd be amazed at how much nicer it is now. All the other things in the patch were enhancements: better graphics, better sound with more options, new features like quick scenarios and starting campaign missions in the air, more options in workshops, and a rationalized damage model that seems to combine the best of both versions available before while eliminating their problems. The AI seems rather smarter now, too, and it was pretty damn mean before. And from what I can tell, most of the patches up to now have been the same way--fixing the odd bug, but mostly adding more gameplay for free to what you already bought.

 

You complain about being outnumbered. Dude, where have you been? I've been outnumbered since this game came out, and I've considered that perfectly realistic because that was the historical situation at the time and place I chose to do most of my flying. Hell, that's the main reason I flew there so much. Now I'm flying in other times and places, and most times the numbers are way on my side, although periodically I'm caught out. But that's war.

 

Anyway, I guess the other folks who've commented are right--you can't make everybody happy. Or at least OBD can't make you happy.

 

If the door didn't hit ya then the dog shoulda bit ya.

[Guest British_eh]

Well, first off I am quite impressed by the new Patch. While there are a few things that are different, there are many great things. I have turned the sound down a bit, and the Flak does seem to be quite dense, but there are so many things that I am impressed with.

 

Barnhorn1x couldn't have said it better.

 

Due regards,

 

British_eh

[carrick58 23]

I like the patch, it does enhance the game. The arty sound did kinda of bother me at 1`st but I just lowered the sound. I think the developers are standing behind the product by offering ( if the gamer wants to install the patch) patches so we can mirco manage the game. I seem to have problems with MSCFS3 remaining stable but thats up to Bill Gates not the OFF developers. Via la Super Patch.

[BigJim 0]

Winston I know you mean well but you just get bashed here if you come on too strong, I too have a tendancy to post when i am unhappy about something but seldom get the response I am looking for when I do

 

Sometimes when my sugar goes low I get real cranky, I wonder if your back has been acting up on ya? I know multiplayer is your thing and you have done alot to make that happen hope you will hang in there as it seems to me that the team here really does try and do things right (even when it kills my best pilots LOL).

 

I am fairly new so I thought and still do that the new patch was great, I know you would like to see the team do some work on MP although I am not really up to speed on what is really wrong there (computerwise). Anyhow don't reply to the snide posts in reply to yours it will just make you more miserable, rather sit back have a cold one and let it simmer for abit all will be well

[buddye 1]

A Flight Sim either gets supported or it dies. Bugs must be fixed and improvement must be made.

 

Many new features and fixes included in the super patch, IMHO.

 

The "Start in the Air" feature is just perfect for me with limited time so I can enjoy a fast Campaign Mission.

 

If a feature is not your cup of tea just ask for a option. If many want a option then you just might get it implemented depending on the number of players who support your position.

 

Why throw a wet blanket over the total patch and improvement concept. It takes the total community to help the developers improve and fix your OFF3 flight sim.

Edited August 13, 2009 by buddye

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

Don't let the door hit you, where the good lord split you

 

 

Winston, I dont agree with the sentiment behind some of these posts like the one quoted above.

I dont want to see you go, and especially not because of some people saying "like it or lump it" etc.

 

Winston has added a lot to the community, and at least for me has given some very solid and informative responses.

 

I'm with Big Jim on this one.

Have a cold one, better yet, have Bullethead buy you a cold one. He's had enough free alcohol lately anyway.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Winston, I hope you choose to stay, Superpatch or no Superpatch.

 

Maybe if OBD called future additions to the game "enhancements" instead of "patches," people wouldn't get so up in arms about the many welcomed improvements to the game. The game is excellent as it is, no one should have the impression that it needs any "fixing."

 

OBD does an excellent job, bar none, listening and responding to their customers. Why should we discourage them by fussing over matters of personal opinion?

[Gremlin_WoH 0]

...

First, I really love and appreciate the superpatch. The graphics improvements are very obvious as well as the nice new little features like the ability to set your pilot to not die in QC. The amount of work that went into this should be appreciated and for me, is. It is a beautiful patch.

 

+1

 

 

But....

 

There are serious, butt ugly things about this game that if I was one of the developers I couldn't put up with for thirty minutes.

 

Case in point: That joke of an autopilot! What is up with that hard right turn followed by five minutes of porpoising requiring me to go take a Dramamine? Sure, the new splash screens are nice, but I'm telling you, I'd opt for looking at a screen of Keith Richards for five minutes in exchange for a behaving autopilot!

 

That is Microsoft's joke ...

 

 

Then there is that absolutely horrible joystick controller interface thing! What planet did that piece of crap get beamed down from? That thing should have been put out of it's misery in Phase 0.0000005.

 

What's this? Never needed it. I usually map the keys on my joystick with my joystick's proprietary software. Again sounds like a Microsoft thingy.

 

 

Of course we all adore the lovely cfs3.config utility don't we? I know I do. Especially lately as I get to click the secret "Window" button and reset all my settings for the millionth time.

 

Again a Microsoft product.

 

 

Ok, I've unloaded. Now I'm going to bed. Sorry for the bitterness. I'll be better in the morning.

 

Don't be bitter. All your issues above are caused by Microsoft and hardcoded into the game. Without the source code there is a bandwidth from 'quite a task' to 'impossible'. I am sure if it can be fixed somehow then OBD Software may do it when time permits (also a matter of the priority list) just like they fixed the AI and introduced a dynamic campaign engine. Again: without having the source code it is all guesswork. Not sure if you ever were into programming and if you are able to estimate the hassles of such efforts.

 

Cheers

[horowae 0]

Patching this great work is o.k for me. I have some more wishes for future patches. Why no hires damage textures? Whats about oil on windows etc? fire after a while of engine overheating? Why does the game ends so fast automatically after landing or shot down?

[+Winder 32]

Sorry to hear that some of you are unhappy with OFF.

We have and always will try our best and sure its never going to please everyone - we cannot.

 

There is now a viable modern alternative to OFF so why not try that - compare it to OFF and then consider whether you want to stay here or there or hell even BOTH!

 

At the end of the day this is game and an addon on to CFS3 - we have never disguised it any other way

We have made tremendous inroads into modding the CFS3 hardcode issues in a priority list and we may or may not continue depending on support.

 

We have had a total of three e-mails since the release of OFF of users who gave up on OFF and moved on - we are happy with the success rate so far - pretty good when I consider the utter crap games I have on my shelf.

 

As to the sounds - I have read a few complaints here - simply turn down the effects volume slider to your liking - the war sounds are based on Battles that may not even be in your eyesight - the sounds of many barrages in WW1 were heard as far away as London - so the effect is there if you want to hear it - if not turn it down

 

As to the numbers - well you have to take into account the Aces flight which fly to the same objective as you - always - as mentioned elsewhere.

I am sure everyone would love to fly with superior numbers at all times - but we know this is not realistic.

 

Finally I guess I should say that we are taking a break - we are happy with OFF P3 as we hope you are.

What the future brings who knows.

 

If anyone needs support please contact:

 

support@overflandersfields.com

 

and quote:

 

1) Your Avangate Order Number

 

2) What package type and version of CFS3 you own.

 

 

Thanks

 

WM

 

 

PS if you are unhappy with OFF and do want to be constructive why not start a thread and list the issues you would like to see addressed in the future - get consensus - I love polls I think everyone knows that by now.

I am not saying we will fix these 'issues' - but we do read feedback as usual - especially feedback based on concensus.

 

 

 

WM

[Check Six 2]

Winston, I hope you choose to stay, Superpatch or no Superpatch.

 

Maybe if OBD called future additions to the game "enhancements" instead of "patches," people wouldn't get so up in arms about the many welcomed improvements to the game. The game is excellent as it is, no one should have the impression that it needs any "fixing."

 

OBD does an excellent job, bar none, listening and responding to their customers. Why should we discourage them by fussing over matters of personal opinion?

 

 

Agree completely. I'm happy with the game, though I've only ever used Phase 3, so I have no other phases to compare it to. I welcome all the "patches" as they are generally improvements or enhancements prompted by users of this forum suggesting to the devs of "wouldn't it be great if..." and "is it possible to...", but I agree with Winston that calling them "patches" may make non-users believe the game is seriously flawed, when as our good friend Herr Prop-Wasche suggested a better terminology of "enhancement" would be a solution to part of the "problem" alluded to by Winston (that of people believing OFF is flawed due to the number of patches coming out).

 

It seems as if some commentators here have offered Winston a solution to his other problem (in that he is not happy with the new super patch) by suggesting he uninstall and reinstall with no patches at all (he believes that this version was much better than the current up to date version).

 

As others have mentioned here, it's impossible to please everybody all the time. It seems to me that the reason we have so many patches is that the devs are being proactive and listening to consumers, and offering what they are asking for. They could, of course, listen to all the suggestions for improvements and outright complaints, and take in that information, and work out a way to fix it, and hold it back for Phase 4 so that most will be very happy at the new manifestation of OFF. I believe that they are doing the right thing by presenting "patches" as they are programmed to keep users happy. Knowing that all the enhancements offered so far since the release of OFF:BHaH (Phase 3) will be available in Phase 4, and much more to boot, has me lining up to pay.

 

Winston, I'm sure you have seen "patches" or "enhancements" offered here to users because they asked for them, and the devs delivered. I think if you had offered suggestions for your own improvements/enhancements/patches, you would have reached the dev's ears just as easily, without some of the negative comments that some have posted here.

 

We don't want to see you go, mate. Most here want to see you happy with the sim. If users or the devs can help you achieve this, you know we will try to help.

[Broadside uda Barn 0]

Bah.

I must say I'm very happy with OFF as it stands now, and I appreciate the vision that OBD has put into this sim. I look forward to additional amplification of OFF, both user generated ideas and Dev.

 

Sometimes people forget the effort that goes into support of software....and especially mods.

Often, many are quick to demand, not necessarily knowing the full picture of why things are the way they are. Or even, why things become what they become.

I'm ready and willing to ante up for phase 4, because I thing the devs have the right vision. It's their game after all.

 

This sim is amazing, as is the community.

.....We all have our bad days....and sometimes we post on them.

 

3 emails stating that they have given up on OFF and moved on? That's a ROFL if ever I saw one. People move on when they are fed up. People email or post in a thread that they are moving on when they appreciate the product and are frustrated.

So leaving OFF because of development decisions? Again I say "Bah". or for our German viewers: Bahhcht (hard to spell that).

 

 

And a final note about a modern-not to be named-alternative to OFF? heh. It just doesnt match up....

Hard to illustrate...but maybe this will help:

Edited August 13, 2009 by Broadside uda Barn

[Macklroy 2]

Everyone has they're opinion. In mine, this patch is the best of them so far. Improved scenery, improved performance, improved dm. I've only put in an hour or two with it but so far two thumbs up. Sorry to hear you're having problems with it Winston, but i think a majority of the OFF pilots enjoyed the new update. Should the "patches" be called "updates" so you dont get the feeling that it's a broken product they're trying to fix?

 

S!

[Wallaroo 0]

Winston, go if you must - but sorry - I just don't understand.

I started flying flightsims with MSFS on a Commodore 64.

My current system has FS9, FSX, IL2 1946 and OFF Ph3 1.32b installed on it.

IL2 FB hooked me on Combat F/Sims.

An enduring (from boyhood) interest in military aviation history (especially WWI and WWII) and Australia's part in it made inevitable my purchase of OFF Ph3 as soon as I could after it was released.

Simply put, I think you've got it wrong:

The updates have ALL been bonuses (or should that be boni? or bonae?)

In my opinion OFFPh3 1.32b the best computer 'game?' I've ever seen.

[+Polovski 460]

Nice thanks Winston. As always if you ask, there may well be a way to fix the "issue" you have. Ranting might work, but if you read the forum you might find an overwhelming number of people who think the latest update has improved the experience a lot, but yes you cannot please everyone all the time. But yes we could just stop updating and improving.. would sure gave us an awful lot more spare time.

 

1. Flight Density was wrong. It broke the OOB "order of battle" that's built in where realistic numbers are assigned based on the situation, battles, period, etc. If you don't like the odds then stick with the Ace flight more. I posted in another thread tips for that. Read some more posts. Or chose another date, location, squad.

 

So FOLLOW THE ACES if you can't handle the numbers. In WW1 piots were OFTEN outnumbered depending on date/time/location/side. If you are outnumbered stop using warp so often to crash bang into enemy flights, then you can avoid them more (as you should). Break warp much more often (I mentioned this several times).

 

2. Loud flak? Turn down effects sounds! Workshop.

 

3. Flak too accurate? turn down ground fire - Workshop.

[saltysplash 0]

My version was only installed yesterday and patched straight away to superpatch and mini patch so Ive never played it anyother way.

 

It is without doubt the best WW1 flight simulator I have ever had the pleasure to use.

 

A very well done to all concerned and keep up the good work

[Olham 164]

Winston, I am also rather conservative and don't like changes to happen often.

But here, we got several very necessary improvements, plus some more good stuff.

In the recent past now, OBD have changed to the better:

 

1. clouds don't spin you round like a washing machine anymore

2. flight model of the SPAD improved - doesn't stall so easily anymore

3. Archie/Flak is looking much more realistic now

4. choice of sounds is now richer

 

For the 'right' sounds, you should read Winder's sticky about sounds. You can first of all make a basic

choice between "Hollywood" and "Realistic" in workshop; then adjust the details to get it as you like it.

I've never seen so much choice for just the sounds anywhere else.

 

Perhaps you're stressed by other factors, outside OFF, but please don't bash this great(est) sim - I know,

you like it. Come down, take a rest (if possible) and check the sticky and other advice, and then adjust it

to your likes, eyh? Winston - do right.

 

PS: I'm not more outnumbered - check "workshop" settings; and: fly with Flight 1 (something I have only just learned - blush!)

Edited August 13, 2009 by Olham

[Check Six 2]

My version was only installed yesterday and patched straight away to superpatch and mini patch so Ive never played it anyother way.

 

It is without doubt the best WW1 flight simulator I have ever had the pleasure to use.

 

A very well done to all concerned and keep up the good work

 

 

Welcome to Flanders Fields saltysplash,

 

Glad you got the sim up and running with no great hassles. If you have any problems or questions, please don't hesitate to ask. Oh, and the bit about the "best WW1 flight simulator I have ever had the pleasure to use"...yup. Agreed.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Double edged sword springs to mind?

I like the Superpatch..and am very happy to use it.

 

In the past however, I have downloaded a patch, which (for me) has screwed up the install, and rather than improve the sim, has (for me) taken it a step backwards!

 

I am pleased there is a superpatch, and I no longer have to concern myself as to whether it was a 1.3 or a 1.3a or a 1.2b with a mini 1.3c patch which buggered it all up (for me!)

 

A fresh install...+ The Superpatch = near perfect (for me)

[Hellshade 110]

I'm sorry, but the more I re-read Winstons post, the less sense it makes. If you don't like the patchs (updates, enhancements, whatever) then simply don't install them. The latest superpatch has recieved overwhelming positive responses, along with every other patch that has been put out by OBD. But if for any reason you don't like them, just don't install them. The answer is child-like in it's simplicity. If OBD required you to install the patches in order to play the game, then frustration with patches you didn't like would make perfect sense, but that isn't the case here at all. The fact that this monumentally simple answer to the rather vague criticisms of patches such as "fixing things that don't need to be fixed" kinda makes me wonder at the real intention of the post. Seriously, if you don't like the patches, nobody is forcing you to install them. There are some valid criticisms of OFF that can be frustrating, like the autopilot issue. Yep, it's annoying, although now with the option to start "in the air" near your target it's not as much of an issue as it once was, thankfully. Believe me, I get that OFF isn't perfect, just like the Devs do. But this is one complaint that literally makes no sense to me at all. Why discourage a developer from improving their product with optional updates you don't need to install? Again, to me it begs the question of the intent of the post. Sorry Winston, but it doesn't add up.

 

Hellshade