Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA - first flight!

[+lindr2 19]

new photo (2nd or 3rd flight)

 

[MigBuster 2,884]

A nice new paint scheme

[ZeroFilth 3]

Paint based on new Su-27BM scheme ?

Looks like so

 

Very nice looking, would like to see it in Raptor colors as well , for comparisons

[Commander92 0]

Nice plane. Do you think the IAF would send one of these for Red Flag or similar exercises to possibly pit against the F-22s, F-35s, Typhoons, Rafales and/or Gripens in the future? Would be interesting to see 5th-gen fighters in mock combat and see their strengths & weaknesses. It'll definately be cool to see this in an airshow as the IAF is increasingly sending its planes to the West for such events and exercises.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Commander92

[+Gocad 26]

Nice plane. Do you think the IAF would send one of these for Red Flag or similar exercises to possibly pit against the F-22s, F-35s, Typhoons, Rafales and/or Gripens in the future? Would be interesting to see 5th-gen fighters in mock combat and see their strengths & weaknesses. It'll definately be cool to see this in an airshow as the IAF is increasingly sending its planes to the West for such events and exercises.

 

Maybe, a lot can happen in 10 years or so. Yeah, I'm convinced a decade will pass before that aircraft will be operational in any airforce...

Besides, these excercises aren't that much revealing, since neither nation has an interest to fully expose the capabilities of their top-line aircraft.

[ZeroFilth 3]

Yeah, even though the PAK-FA has been in other contries interests since the beginning of the project...

Even Brazil's Embraer was invited to take part in the project, sadly refusing to do so, with the excuse that it wasn't what they were looking for... yeah right...

 

but letting that aside, i'm pretty sure it'll be exported pretty soon after it's ready to go ...

[+lindr2 19]

some "new" pics

 

 

 

[Silverbolt 104]

wow, looks a way smaller than flanker.

[JediMaster 451]

Optical illusion. It's shorter in height, but the length is quite close. The wingspan is only slightly less.

It's still much larger than a MiG-29.

 

I wonder what plane that hard-to-make-out twin-boom design is?

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Taken with a pinch of salt - as all his other work in trying to put down the F-35!

 

He's not trashing the F-35 per se just that, in his conclusion, the F-35 is the wrong choice to fill the role of one of the aircraft it's replacing. And in many ways he's right. There were similar debates in the UK in the 80s about replacing the Avro Vulcan with Tornado GR series. He's also a proponent of lobbying for the acquisition of the F-22. But all I'll say about lobbying the US for the F-22 is that you can hope in one hand and crap in the other; See which fills up first.

[MigBuster 2,884]

He's not trashing the F-35 per se just that, in his conclusion, the F-35 is the wrong choice to fill the role of one of the aircraft it's replacing. And in many ways he's right. There were similar debates in the UK in the 80s about replacing the Avro Vulcan with Tornado GR series. He's also a proponent of lobbying for the acquisition of the F-22. But all I'll say about lobbying the US for the F-22 is that you can hope in one hand and crap in the other; See which fills up first.

 

 

Well funny his conclusions always seem to be utter **** just like the papers he sticks on his website. The examples of Flanker Vs F-35 are some of the funniest things ive read - they are so out that these so called experts either dont know much about modern air combat - or have some other motives.

Kopp calls himself a Doctor, but puts references in the papers to other papers written by himself - sorry but wtf!!

Mainly because 90% of what he states (written as fact) has no evidence to back it up - or in the case of the F-35 and T-50 are not even in service yet. Look at the anaylis of the T-50 - I mean thats pretty impressive he can determine that capability from a few pics of a prototype.

 

I understand that on paper the F-22 would be a better airframe than the F-35 in terms of stealth, range, and power - some things that are pretty important to an Island like Australia - but not moved that the F-35 (soon to be the worlds most advanced jet) is that bad a choice in reality.

 

As far as the Vulcan Vs Tornado goes I'm glad they lost that debate, The Vulcan was designed as a long range high altitude bomber and was massive - the Tornado is a low level striker, faster, smaller and still had the range to hit its cold war targets better than the Vulcan could - IMO the Tornado fitted the low level strike role better.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Is a designation for this bird out?! a Su number and a codename by the Nato?

[macelena 1,070]

Is a designation for this bird out?! a Su number and a codename by the Nato?

 

If you remember, I proposed a NATO reporting name in the Spanish Subforum, but they didn´t like it...

[JediMaster 451]

I think in Russia the gov't assigns numbers differently than the company that makes them. So you have Flankers being assigned the numbers 27, 30, 32, 33, 34, 35, and 37, with a variety of letter suffixes when really just 3 numbers would have likely worked (27, 33, 32/34).

Changing the ability of the plane to do a particular mission profile doesn't deserve a new number, that's a suffix change. In fact, there is less in common between the F/A-18C and F/A-18E then there is between the Su-27 and Su-30.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I didn`t mean a spanish subforum name I was looking for a officialy given name

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

...they are so out that these so called experts either dont know much about modern air combat - or have some other motives.

 

Whoa whoa whoa, lets just get one thing straight. I'm not defending him whatsoever. His objectivity has always been in question because he's a lobbyist for the (small) pro-F-22 lobby over here (and yeah, fundamental rule of credibility, being self-referential is a big fail). He does make a few vague points (whether he means to or not) about LR strike being a much more difficult tasking in this day and age when one considers the potential threats emerging in the S-SE Asian region with regards to advanced model Flankers becoming more common place and that the RAAF is close to losing (or has lost) it's technical superiority... which will no doubt be restored with the acuisition of the F-35. But expecting it to do what the F-111 has done in the past is flawed reasoning to begin with just as is expecting to have USAF B-1Bs participating in Jimmy Doolittle style raids, given the nature of operational requirements and the ability to deploy in theatres of conflict such as Afghanistan and Iraq. And this is something he doesn't do, otherwise you'd read about how the F-111 hasn't deployed to operational theatres. No, he just bangs on about how nothing compares to the F-22 and that's what we should have, forgetting for the moment that each F-22 costs about as much as it would to build a new ANZAC class Frigate. And I'd like to know exactly where he's getting his info on the T-50 given that not even groups like Jane's have much of an idea of what the T-50 is capable of just yet. He just gives me the impression of an advid war games player, especially if you see what he has to say about China and the PLAAF/PLAN.

 

 

And about the Vulcan... alls I'm saying is that it was a big, versitile, capable platform with legs long than Manute Bol (He was 7'7") that could have proven itself time and again. I mean, case in point: The B-52 has for more than 50 years. True, you don't see Buffs in the weeds any more, but that's not their major tasking these days.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Say What?!

[xclusiv8 35]

Do we have any russian memebers that could be so nice and translate in short what the reporters on the clips from page one are saying??

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

If you ask Lindr very, very nicely...

[Wraith27 6]

Again in the air! New pictures: http://www.paralay.com/pakfasu.html

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

What I don`t realy understand is one design thing, maybe someone can help me with it, if you compare the F-22 and the 50 from the front view, you can see a significant difference between those birdsd.

 

The F-22 has a internal bay in the middle, also some outward of the engineintakes. Design is great and very practicly, but why has Suchoi choosed this kind of nose and the hole between the intakes. stretching the nose a bit down, and solve the gap with an internal larger weaponsbay, or even increasing the fuel capacity of this bird. All optional, but they tend to choose a more 27 like desing for this stealth fighter?! Why were is the advantage?

 

[JediMaster 451]

The F-22 has side-by-side engines while the T-50 spread them apart a bit. There's legit reasons for each design choice (the F-14 took that route as well). Close-set engines offer less adverse yaw in a single-engine out situation, wide-set engines offer insulation from one engine failure taking out the other via debris. The nose thing, like the Su-27 before it, is likely due to the angle of flight (so the nose isn't pointing high over the line of flight at cruise speeds or lower) as well as giving the pilot a good view over the nose on takeoff and landing.

Also, the wide-set design offers a "lifting fuselage" effect which adds lift at high AOA that can be very useful.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Sounds reasonable, but the F-14 wasn`t designed to carry teh weapons internaly, so this engine layout is great for internal storage space inbetween or not?! This conclusion is just my idea, Suchoi bureau know what they do, they have buil alot good planes, I just try to understand the descision

 

thanks for the answer

[+Gepard 11,324]

I think JediMaster is right. The Lifting Body concept is well researched by the Russian designers and as the Su-27 family and the MiG-29 show, this concept stands for high agile fighter planes.

[Hokum 0]

Not sure if this video is new or not? But here it is anyway.

 

[Gr.Viper 131]

Soo.. now that Mr. Putin paid the testing facility a visit (and laughed with the pilot which is a detail not one article fails to mention) our dear press is saying that T-50 is going to surpass F-22 AND will cost 2-3 times less.