xclusiv8 35 Posted March 1, 2010 What is wrong with these people? This must be the stupidest thing i have ever heard http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/utah-women-may-face-murder-charges-after-miscarriages-1913019.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fubar512 1,350 Posted March 1, 2010 "Lawmakers were responding to the case of a 17-year-old pregnant Utah woman who paid a man $150 to assault her physically in the hope that the beating would cause her to miscarry. The child was born anyway and put up for adoption. And while the man involved is currently behind bars, prosecutors found they had no basis in state law to prosecute the young woman. She was in her seventh month when she tried to terminate her pregnancy" I believe that it's a woman's right to decide on whether or not to seek an abortion....however, what this girl did, is facilitation of a crime that could have potentially led to the death of her unborn child. She should be liable for criminal charges, plain and simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xclusiv8 35 Posted March 1, 2010 That still does not justify this kind of law. they are basicly taking away a womans rights during her pregnacy. Should a woman stay inside for 9 months in fear of falling for example? No i dont think she should. This is nothing but backwater thinking from the state of utah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted March 1, 2010 It's not murder, it's more like some kind of fraud. Besides, at that point is it so hard to just let the kid be born and give it up? At 7 months already, what's the point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Von Paulus 8 Posted March 1, 2010 This is a hot matter. I too believe that he's woman right to decide on abortion. But in this case, 7 months... and the way it was... I don't know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted March 1, 2010 Yeah, this is a pretty extreme knee-jerk... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 931 Posted March 1, 2010 I don't have an issue with the law if it would only be applied to people who have a track record.if a woman has one miscarige that could be an accident but if a woman continuis to drink or do drugs pregnancy after pregnany and it damages or destroys the kid then I think that is criminal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eraser_tr 29 Posted March 1, 2010 More idiotic knee-jerk reactions. One instance isn't something to make a law with such potentially broad consequences. What she did was rather f***ed up, but if they made a law out of every f***ed up thing people do, that would result in the worst police state mankind has ever seen. More than anything they're simply trying to maneuver a new challenge to Roe V. Wade, considering this supreme court just overturned campaign finance laws, they think they will have success. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ElPatron 0 Posted March 1, 2010 So, im not ver familiar with legal isues, but here is what i think: - a person can be arrested for atempted murder - a person can be arrested for paying another one to kill someone This is not your regular "moral" arguement... she did a bad thing, so she deserves punishment? right? i mean, if the guy who assaulted her was punished, why did she got away? not that miscarriages = IMPRISIONMENT stuff, but at least make law "more flexible"... just my toughts, this is defenatly a "hot" issue Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shotdown 8 Posted March 1, 2010 I believe that it's a woman's right to decide on whether or not to seek an abortion.... ... could have potentially led to the death of her unborn child. What's exactly the difference?. I mean, isn't abortion exactly that, killing your unborn child? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UnknownPilot 33 Posted March 1, 2010 So, im not ver familiar with legal isues, but here is what i think: - a person can be arrested for atempted murder - a person can be arrested for paying another one to kill someone This is not your regular "moral" arguement... she did a bad thing, so she deserves punishment? right? i mean, if the guy who assaulted her was punished, why did she got away? not that miscarriages = IMPRISIONMENT stuff, but at least make law "more flexible"... just my toughts, this is defenatly a "hot" issue "Flexible law" is law that is open to interpretation. In a classic sense, it's a law that in theory, when applied only to "bad guys" is ok, but when applied to good guys is not, but yet which is open enough that the system can technically (per the letter) pick and choose. In other words, it's law that most feel should only be applied to bad guys, but could technically backfire on anyone. Flexivle law is ALWAYS a bad idea. Always. It's kind of like the proverbial "arsehole bomb", ultimately it would always kill it's own creator (ie, the wrong, or at least not the intended, target). Further, she only did wrong in waiting so long. And that is only because people get so upset over nothing. She (and the guy she paid) should be given a pat on the back and a "thanks, nice try". TOO. MANY. PEOPLE. This rock can't support 6.5 billion. It is teetering on the brink and that is only with the aid of gene modified crops and ocean de-salinization, yet we still have food and fresh water crises looming on the very near horizon (our aquifers are getting dangerously low, just for but 1 example), and that's without even getting into issues of energy sources. Several years ago (around 04, IIRC), the US Census Bureau reported that we had a net gain of 1 person, every 11 seconds in this country. That is all births and LEGAL (ie, known) immigrants, minus all deaths and emmigrants. And naturally, that was with data that was old even then. Do the math, it's frightening to say the least. Especially when you add in the infrastructure people need. It's not just about the sq.m. of space you occupy, it's about the house you need, the car you need, the roads you need to drive that car on, the gas stations you need to fuel that car, the power plants to power your home, the buisnesses to employ you and the parking lots they need, the stores for you to shop at and the parking lots they need, the schools for you (and your kids) to attend and their associated paved areas as well as athletic fields, all the manufacturing to build the cars and busses and equipment used, resevoirs for drinking water, sewage treatment plants, junk yards and landfills for waste, mines (including the strip variety) to supply raw material, refineries for fuel, and lets not forget about farms for produce and meat to feed everyone (which we are now also trying to turn into fuel as well)... and one could really go on for some length. I just wanted to make and drive home the point. The best thing would be for her to have insisted on a wrap and been smart. But the next best thing would be to handle the cleanup afterward (abortion or miscarriage). Adoption may save HER the trouble, but puts the kid in a bad situation and increases the burden on those of us already here, and the planet at large. I am sure this will be a VERY unpopular post. But the numbers can't be ignored. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xclusiv8 35 Posted March 1, 2010 My problem is not with the girl. Sure what she did was horrible But what i cannot understand is the law which is so freaking careless and stupid. The lawmakers must be retarded or something because 15-20% of all pregnancies end up as misscarriages. So with the logic they have all those women that this actually happens to should be trialed for murder?? Bulls**t i say! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SayethWhaaaa 245 Posted March 1, 2010 Some miscarriages can result from some completely random causes that the mother won't have any control or even awareness of... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted March 1, 2010 I would like to state my opinion on the matter, but I'm sure it will instigate a really heated debate that I don't think the moderators here would enjoy. Nor do I think I would be getting any support for my position on my point of view of the subject. So I'll just keep quiet and read what you guys have to say. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macelena 1,070 Posted March 1, 2010 I would like to state my opinion on the matter, but I'm sure it will instigate a really heated debate that I don't think the moderators here would enjoy. Nor do I think I would be getting any support for my position on my point of view of the subject. So I'll just keep quiet and read what you guys have to say. Try and find out cop. That´s not Persia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Von Paulus 8 Posted March 1, 2010 Try and find out cop. That´s not Persia We all know where this will end in a while. This is not a censorship it's good sense. There are a few discussions that should avoidable in a forum like ours. Two of them are religion and politics. If it were in my country I would also add it soccer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capitaine Vengeur 263 Posted March 2, 2010 So, im not ver familiar with legal isues, but here is what i think: - a person can be arrested for atempted murder - a person can be arrested for paying another one to kill someone This is not your regular "moral" arguement... she did a bad thing, so she deserves punishment? right? i mean, if the guy who assaulted her was punished, why did she got away? not that miscarriages = IMPRISIONMENT stuff, but at least make law "more flexible"... just my toughts, this is defenatly a "hot" issue "Flexible law" is a law where people with money and connections never get imprisoned. While ordinary law... oh, well, it's the same case, after all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted March 2, 2010 If we didn't have a bunch of religious controlfreaks determined to take away women's ability to control their own sexuality or their own bodies s**t like this would be a non-issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted March 2, 2010 I support the death penalty for anything greater than a traffic stop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Von Paulus 8 Posted March 2, 2010 "Flexible law" is a law where people with money and connections never get imprisoned. While ordinary law... oh, well, it's the same case, after all. So true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted March 2, 2010 Ok, I will say this... I place the same value of life on an unborn as would place on a new born. Untill there is scientific proof that an unborn is not a living-being capable of growing up to be a person that can make a difference in our world, I will continue to support the right for that unborn to live. Just because its an inconvenience doesn't mean it deserves to die. Really don't understand how that is "backwards thinking" but I guess that just makes those who think differently about this feel comfortable about their beliefs. Great, I bet I just started a flame war. I permit my post to be deleted if it seems necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macelena 1,070 Posted March 2, 2010 Ok, I will say this... I place the same value of life on an unborn as would place on a new born. Untill there is scientific proof that an unborn is not a living-being capable of growing up to be a person that can make a difference in our world, I will continue to support the right for that unborn to live. Just because its an inconvenience doesn't mean it deserves to die. Really don't understand how that is "backwards thinking" but I guess that just makes those who think differently about this feel comfortable about their beliefs. Great, I bet I just started a flame war. I permit my post to be deleted if it seems necessary. I knew i would agree 100% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Dave 2,318 Posted March 2, 2010 I think its the person's choice. I do not agree with abortion but I am not going to tell a person what to do with their bodies. They have to answer for it someday, I don't. Doesn't affect me in the least bit. I have my 4 wonderful children. Someone wants to be a douche bag and terminate their pregnancy, it will catch up to them one day. It always does. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UnknownPilot 33 Posted March 2, 2010 (not work safe for language - it is, however, true hehe) - Born or unborn, there is nothing special about us - Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eraser_tr 29 Posted March 2, 2010 Nobody is "pro-abortion" (well unless its rape/incest) It's just nobody else can't tell a person what they do with their body. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
