Slartibartfast 153 Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) Okay I have looked at this vid now about 10 times... to me it's a good shoot. It looks like you have a bunch of guys wandering around with weapons... primarily AK's and from the rest of the radio transmissions there is a situation going down... In Iraq the wonderful insurgents (Sarcasm) dont wear a uniform they don't play by the rules of engagement and they will use kids to get close in to the troops, I had that issue once in Bosnia... If I remember right gun camera footage is not released until after hostilites have finished. You point a camera and that camera!!! does look awfully like a big ass RPG front end he's pointing I know I have had one pointed at me... and he points it, or anything that looks like an offensive weapon at a helo crew who have been in theatre for awhile and they will be naturally jumpy, you have a bunch of guys hiding and pointing kit round corners thats going to make the crew even more jumpy... mixed in with about 4 AK's that I could see and if it had been me I would have taken the shot... Most camera crews know not to point a camera or anything else at a Helicopters or armoured vehicles without being very open about it and not pointing it round corners... You can tell that the crew are trying to limit damage as they use the 30mm they have rockets and hellfires under that apache if they had been going totally gungho they would have flattened the square... The laughter is stress you can hear it in their voices and I have heard it in real life the stress of someone who has just taken someone out some laugh some get morose some just go quiet... Everyone deals with it differently on this I know I did a tour in Bosnia and a tour in Kosovo... Also this has been "DECRYPTED" that makes me wonder what's going on here as well... Decrypted and sliced to make us see what they want us to see... Also the "Film Crew" would have advised the US military in the area that they had a crew out there and they where filming... Why wasn't the crew advised. Also why wasn't the ground guys telling them to watch out that there where film crews about... Also remember what the news media will do if we can't get real news we will mock something up... Though I suspect that if it was Reuters they wouldn't get that low... But remember that the insurgancy will use any and all means it can get its stinky hands on to cause problems both physchological and physical to military forces... Also when you shoot at someone if they are still moving and you cannot see what they have under their bodies you make sure for all they knew he was checking an explosive vest for when ground teams got there we don't know... If I have it wrong so be it and thats where it lies... to me this is a good shoot within ROE... Also shooting the wagon is clean as it was a standard run of the mill insurgent personel carrier saw plently of these in my travels and they can carry a fair amount of kit... My last comment is thus when under fire and in stressful situations for any length of time mistakes can and will be made... Also don't villify the troops on the ground until you get of your ass and go do the job yourself and see what hell it is... War isn't playing Modern Warfare 2 and there is no reset button for when it goes wrong and no save games... This is an Apache gunship crew doing what they are there to do take out bad guys with guns... and there are guns in that picture trust me I have looked at enough imagery to know the difference... War is hell no matter what the issues... Apologies if this doesn't read okay as sometimes my thoughts move faster than I can type... Also apologies for the War and Peace epic... Edited April 8, 2010 by Slartibartfast Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lexx_Luthor 57 Posted April 8, 2010 I remember when I was in Jalalabad on the way out and (later on I found out) it was a Captain pointing four PVC pipes (like that old Vietnam era M220 rocket launcher, if I remember the designation correct) at a helicopter that was flying by. I was so livid that if there wasn't a 1SG standing there, I would have gotten into some serious trouble for giving him a beat down. Just stupid s**t like that could get him and those around us killed. Yea I hear ya. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 934 Posted April 8, 2010 looks like these wikileaks guys little story is starting to unravel.it's all ove rthe news now and the more you watch it and see it without the stupid captions and highlights the more and more it looks ok.they convienintly leftout the the men and weapons match the description of men who were engaging US forces in that area that day.Also the dialog between ground and air units sounds to me like they were in a "hot" area and the choppers were looking for these trouble makers to protect the ground troops.also they were trying to get to the wounded when the unmarked vehicle speeds in and starts to grab the guys still alive.it certainly looks like iregular forces setting up an ambush with some stupid reporters going along for the ride.not the best sort of people to be hanging with when US forces are in the area.it sucks these people(the reporters) were killed but they new the risks of being with armed men in a combat zone and they paid the price for their choice to go with them.I still want to know who brings children to a hot combat zone?What were they thinking? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Brain32 265 Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) OK guys here's one of the things I'm talking about I'm no pro photographer, but check the size of the thing carried by the man I marked, if that's a camera then camera manufacturers should re-think their design... Edited April 8, 2010 by Brain32 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 934 Posted April 8, 2010 (edited) OK guys here's one of the things I'm talking about I'm no pro photographer, but check the size of the thing carried by the man I marked, if that's a camera then camera manufacturers should re-think their design... I think he knows whats going to happen and he's just really excited to meet all those celestial virgins. oh and since when did Ron Jeremy work for the bad guys? Edited April 8, 2010 by whiteknight06604 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted April 8, 2010 "And in one shot, I swear, you can see everything, but my friend tells me it's just the way he's holding his spear." Monty Python Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Julhelm 266 Posted April 8, 2010 The full 39 minute video has been released by wikileaks btw. Anyway when I saw it on tv the first thing I thought was "those guys are packing rpgs". I'd have made the same call as it's not that easy identifying something through an EO camera. Pity about the kids but that's their tough luck for being there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EricJ 4,254 Posted April 8, 2010 looks like these wikileaks guys little story is starting to unravel.it's all ove rthe news now and the more you watch it and see it without the stupid captions and highlights the more and more it looks ok.they convienintly leftout the the men and weapons match the description of men who were engaging US forces in that area that day.Also the dialog between ground and air units sounds to me like they were in a "hot" area and the choppers were looking for these trouble makers to protect the ground troops.also they were trying to get to the wounded when the unmarked vehicle speeds in and starts to grab the guys still alive.it certainly looks like iregular forces setting up an ambush with some stupid reporters going along for the ride.not the best sort of people to be hanging with when US forces are in the area.it sucks these people(the reporters) were killed but they new the risks of being with armed men in a combat zone and they paid the price for their choice to go with them.I still want to know who brings children to a hot combat zone?What were they thinking? It's Iraq man, I spent my year there and nobody in my Troop could figure the place out, to include me. It's just the way it is there man. Besides, you'd be amazed how many people they can fit in one of those. Was doing a search and a good sized family came out of there. Weird, kinda like the TARDIS... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted April 8, 2010 The full 39 minute video has been released by wikileaks btw. That's the one I watched. Still has a lot of editing and still the guy peeking round the corner holds a wide tube-like object which could easily be a laucher. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted April 8, 2010 serverandenforcer: What would the Soviet Union think of Youtube? USSR would have hated it, unless they totally controlled it. So by definition an uncontrolled Youtube is good for freedom, sovereignty, and liberty. I just think youtube all together is bad. It's already bad enough that the media is showing us editied photography and video, now we have nut jobs and folks who got a "PhD" from a cracker jack box posting and commenting on stuff on youtube all the time that is anything but legit. However, I think the overall problem is the gullibilty of people these days. Folks are easy to convince of an agenda if it's presented cleverly. Nobody puts any effort into background checks and makes sure what they're hearing, reading, and seeing is true. Humanity won't fall because of violence and war. It will fall because of blatant lazyness and down right stupidity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+whiteknight06604 934 Posted April 8, 2010 "Humanity won't fall because of violence and war. It will fall because of blatant lazyness and down right stupidity." truer words have not been spoken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Old Diego 66 Posted April 9, 2010 This entire film reminds me of watching clouds as a kid. We laid out on the grass looking up and we all saw different shapes in the same cloud. Face it, none of us were there. Second and third hand knowledge means nothing. Only the Pilot and Gunner know what they saw and how they interpreted it based on the situation. Looks like an RPG or looks like a camera - looks more like an opinion. None of us here are qualified to dissect that video properly unless we have the Pilot/Gunner give us a play by play. What is real is that we all get to see a tiny glimpse of why war is ugly and brutal. Those that choose to be in the midst of it do it with the full knowledge that there is a real chance that they will not be coming home. I'm sure those reporters knew there were no health packs or do overs if they got into trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+CrazyhorseB34 937 Posted April 9, 2010 I am qualified to disect it properly, and I did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Old Diego 66 Posted April 9, 2010 I suppose you spoke directly with the Pilot/Gunner then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lexx_Luthor 57 Posted April 9, 2010 Server:: I just think youtube all together is bad. It's already bad enough that the media is showing us editied photography and video, now we have nut jobs and folks who got a "PhD" from a cracker jack box posting and commenting on stuff on youtube all the time that is anything but legit. However, I think the overall problem is the gullibilty of people these days. Folks are easy to convince of an agenda if it's presented cleverly. Nobody puts any effort into background checks and makes sure what they're hearing, reading, and seeing is true. Humanity won't fall because of violence and war. It will fall because of blatant lazyness and down right stupidity. Stay the course. Some things I like on Youtube, some things I don't, including the Wikileak dramatizing this video. People are gullible, but if teh Youtube is bad then ALL media is equally as bad. Maybe the Pentagon should have releaced this vid themselves with their own spin. But they let somebody else do it first with their own spin. If I liked or agreed with everything on Youtube, I'd do as well reading Pravda in ye olde USSR. One thing I saw that stood out for me was a Canadian vid of a "protester" agitating other protesters to start violence. The peaceful protesters shouted this guy down and he retreats behind the police line. It was supposed that this guy was a plant to incite violence so the police could make their move. I Dunno but the police made way for him to retreat behind them. The Soviet Union would have called this a "bad" video. So would Canada.gov I suppose lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted April 9, 2010 The Soviet Union would have called this a "bad" video. So would Canada.gov I suppose lol. I call that a success. If you can not provoke protesters to go violent, then there is nothing to worry about. If they do go violent, it would only be a matter of time until it would happen. However, getting them agitated and now having a reason to take action is a good tactic to use to get rid of a large crowd. I mean, who likes crowds? I don't... I hate them. That's why I always get the fast pass at Disneyland. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xclusiv8 35 Posted April 9, 2010 Provoking a crowd/person whatever is wrong and thank god we have laws for that here in sweden. Provoking someone does not mean they would do the same crime if left unprovoked. Lets assume that the crowd had started to get violent after provokation then the police would have kicked theire asses. But if left untouched they peacefully did theire thing and then scattered. So what is conclusive in thtat situation? Well easy do not provoke people. In my opinion provokation is a nice way to show police brutality. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
serverandenforcer 33 Posted April 9, 2010 I wasn't trying to be serious on that one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xclusiv8 35 Posted April 9, 2010 I wasn't trying to be serious on that one. My bad then. The beer is on me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lexx_Luthor 57 Posted April 10, 2010 lol Server that diplomat-dude in the airplane bathroom saying he was lighting up his shoe was joking too. Youtube can do a good job at exposing a potential emergence of a corrupt police state. Just before the USSR collapse, there was a peaceful demonstration in Tbsili and they didn't turn violent so Soviet troops had to beatem with shovels -- primitive Soviet version of non-lethal weapons hehe. I figure this was USSR on deathbed and news was getting out or they would have shotem. I suppose they were doing their job for the commie cowards in power. The shovels made dam fine tactics but in the end, Mission Fail. USSR Fail. Even armed and armoured illegitimacy fails in the end by its own corruption. Everybody needs to look up Youtube and The Station fire video (Great White) and learn and live from that video. Dense crowds -- small can be dense -- always made me nervous but I'm like that. But it kinda depends. I avoid Disney since it is...well, hehe Disney. I goto movies, and I used to get friends to sit in front row, and they whine something about "sitting in space shuttle at launch." I love being right in front of the screen. Now I sit in back row near entrance. You never *know* if front emergency EXIT doors are locked which happens with sloppy owners and managers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gr.Viper 131 Posted April 10, 2010 shovels -- primitive Soviet version of non-lethal weapons hehe Actually the Soviet infantry shovel is desgned to be both a shovel and an axe, it has sharp edges. There are even US-made replicas out there http://www.coldsteel.com/spshovel.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lexx_Luthor 57 Posted April 11, 2010 Thanks Viper that was great to see. Server I apologize I just love the youtube alot. Some crapp I see on it I don't but sometimes it sux to be me. I'm embarassed the way Wikileak handled this vid. Best thing is to make better spin. This thread did. Thanks to all the serial moderators for keeping it open. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
