Mirage Factory F-14B Cockpit

[mosherec 2]

First of all I absolutely love the Mirage factory F-14A & B for the Strike Fighters 2 series.

 

Awesome work by all involved, to include the skins and such that have been added lately.

 

I cannot wait for the F-14 based edition of the SF2 series to come out.

 

The only thing that I just cannot get past is the really thick canopy frame work in the new F-14. It just blocks too much of my view.

 

I know the canopy frame in the Tomcat was somewhat of a problem for maintaining visibility in the F-14. But the canopy and windscreen frame in the MF F-14 cockpit seems a little too thick.

 

Having sat in an F-14 cockpit a few time myself I just don't remember the canopy frame being quite so thick.

 

Anyone tried to modify it? I would give it a shot myself but I am not much of an experienced moder at all. I wouldn't know where to start? What would be the procedure if I wanted to try?

 

Thanks.

Edited February 2, 2011 by mosherec

[FastCargo 412]

Unless you know how to build a new cockpit from scratch, the answer is, you can't.

 

Also, in real life, the reason cockpit frames do not seem as thick verses what you see in a sim is because your binocular vision 'looks behind' the frame, effectively making the frame 'thinner'.

 

For a demostration of this effect, stand near a pole (such as a stop sign) about 4-5 feet away, and focus beyond the pole. Then close one eye, note what you see, then the other eye, note what you see, then view normally. You'll see that you can 'see' a lot more 'behind' the pole with both eyes than with one eye.

 

You don't have that advantage in a sim, because everything is at the same focus distance. So if a cockpit is built accurately, it will appear to be 'thicker' than the real thing. You can either live with it, or artificially 'shrink' the frame, IF you have the 3ds MAX file.

 

FC

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Paralex gets em everytime!

[Wrench 9,848]

well, there IS a keystroke to 'turn off the cockpit'. It's sort of a cheat, but...

 

wrench

kevin stein

[mosherec 2]

What about using the SF1 series Mirage Factory F-14 cockpit with the SF2 F-14?

 

Not exactly the most desireable solution but could it be done? What would I need to do to make it work?

 

Thanks.

 

Unless you know how to build a new cockpit from scratch, the answer is, you can't.

 

Also, in real life, the reason cockpit frames do not seem as thick verses what you see in a sim is because your binocular vision 'looks behind' the frame, effectively making the frame 'thinner'.

 

For a demostration of this effect, stand near a pole (such as a stop sign) about 4-5 feet away, and focus beyond the pole. Then close one eye, note what you see, then the other eye, note what you see, then view normally. You'll see that you can 'see' a lot more 'behind' the pole with both eyes than with one eye.

 

You don't have that advantage in a sim, because everything is at the same focus distance. So if a cockpit is built accurately, it will appear to be 'thicker' than the real thing. You can either live with it, or artificially 'shrink' the frame, IF you have the 3ds MAX file.

 

FC

[+Kulbit80 1,399]

Yes. I use SF1 cockpit in SF2 MF Tomcat. There is one upgraded to SF2 standards http://combatace.com/files/file/10297-sf2e-f-14d/ but avionics is for D version. You can downgrade it if you need.

[Fubar512 1,350]

In reality, there should be at least two versions of the F-14A cockpit. An early one with a vector RWR, and a later version upgraded with a TEWS RWR receiver. The '14B and 'D sported a TEWS set.

[+Stary 2,427]

Also, in real life, the reason cockpit frames do not seem as thick verses what you see in a sim is because your binocular vision 'looks behind' the frame, effectively making the frame 'thinner'.

FC

 

I love such voices of reason restoring sanity

[mosherec 2]

This is the difference that I am talking about in the new SF2 F-14A&B canopy frame and the real Tomcat canopy frame. Clearly the canopy framing in the SF2 Tomcat cockpit is much too thick in comparison to the real thing. Keep in mind that the camera this was taken with is monocular, so no "paralax" issues here making it appear thinner due to looking at it with binocular vision. The first image is of an actual F-14D cockpit taken from eye level from the pilot seat. The second is a screen shot from the SF2 F-14B cockpit.

 

 

The framing around the windscreen that contains the hud looks fairly close to the real thing. However I think that it is obvious that the upper canopy fram is clearly too thick, causing it to obstruct entirely too much of the forward field of view. I estmate that the upper frame shuld be about a third as thick as it appears. This is what I would like to fix if there is any way possible.

 

Otherwise I wonder if it would just be possible to use the old Mirage Factory F-14 A cockpit with the SF2 F-14A & B aircraft models?

[+Dels 649]

Don't forget that the picture you have there was taken with the canopy open. When it closes there's another frame that would be visible and taking into account paralax, I imagine it would seem quite thick.

 

Dels

[mosherec 2]

I have concidered that also and I still believe it is too thick, even taking into account the inch and a half or so of the canopy rail that projects into the cockpit.

 

Perhaps if you were looking at the canopy frame from a position that would have your line of sight perpendicular, or 90 degrees incidence to its surface that is flush with the canopy glass then maybe it would appear that way. However sitting in the pilots seat your point of view is probably closer to a line that intersects the canopy at this point about 30 to 45 degrees of incidence to the canopy plane.

[FastCargo 412]

Otherwise I wonder if it would just be possible to use the old Mirage Factory F-14 A cockpit with the SF2 F-14A & B aircraft models?

 

Nothing is stopping you from doing that yourself if you would like.

 

FC

[+EricJ 4,245]

I have concidered that also and I still believe it is too thick, even taking into account the inch and a half or so of the canopy rail that projects into the cockpit.

 

Perhaps if you were looking at the canopy frame from a position that would have your line of sight perpendicular, or 90 degrees incidence to its surface that is flush with the canopy glass then maybe it would appear that way. However sitting in the pilots seat your point of view is probably closer to a line that intersects the canopy at this point about 30 to 45 degrees of incidence to the canopy plane.

 

For the most part Mirage Factory doesn't skimp on the details and the like. This bird had been in development for nearly a century (just kidding but it had been a few years) so for the frame to be "too thick" means that more than likely if I went to AMARC and sat in a cockpit with the canopy down I'd probably say "man they were on the mark.". And the fact that there are plenty of people who probably assisted (former Tomcat pilots) with the cockpit shows that that the time they took was worth it. Just my two cents...

 

But as FC said, you can swap out cockpit models on another version and be happy

[Guest Pfunk]

Bear in mind that with a fighter, it doesn't matter the size. That office is small.

[Caesar 305]

Well, not entirely. The Turkey drivers and RIOs I've spoken to all agree the Tomcat's cockpit is roomy. Guys at 6' 4" could fit comfortably in the cockpit; by comparison to the A-4 and earlier F-8, which a lot of the bigger guys considered pretty cramped. One pilot even noted that is was good that the A-4's Escapac ejection seat had the lower handle as its primary, since it would have been impossible for him to get the face curtain over his head and maintain spinal alignment during punch out due to the Scooter's tiny pit!

[Romflyer 25]

Well, field of veiw is something that we computer pilot addicts are always challenged with, and I don't think Mosherec's remarks were intended as rivet counting.........I agree with him that the latest MF F-14 is spectacular......BUT.......taking a little artistic license with the canopy frame would dramatically increase the field of veiw on the computer screen, and increase the enjoyment factor of flying this plane.......This game that we all love so much is full compremises intended to make our computer flying experience more enjoyable.........and it would fabulous if someone who had the modding ability would try to make these canopy frames thinner. Allthough anatomically incorrect, I think most of us would enjoy the wider field of veiw accross our computer screen with this VERY nicely modelled aircraft.

[mosherec 2]

Well, field of veiw is something that we computer pilot addicts are always challenged with, and I don't think Mosherec's remarks were intended as rivet counting.........I agree with him that the latest MF F-14 is spectacular......BUT.......taking a little artistic license with the canopy frame would dramatically increase the field of veiw on the computer screen, and increase the enjoyment factor of flying this plane.......This game that we all love so much is full compremises intended to make our computer flying experience more enjoyable.........and it would fabulous if someone who had the modding ability would try to make these canopy frames thinner. Allthough anatomically incorrect, I think most of us would enjoy the wider field of veiw accross our computer screen with this VERY nicely modelled aircraft.

 

Thanks for the assist. You seem to understand exactly what I am saying. I am certainly not "rivet counting" and I am in no way trying to be critical of the SF2 Tomcat or it's creators. As I said to begin with I absolutley love the new F-14 except for that one little detail. I am not convinced that the upper canopy framing is accurate in dimension. But supposing that it is, we do not have the advantage of being able to lean to one side or the other or maneuver our heads around in the sim to see whats behind it. So if it was made somewhat thinner to compensate for this, I think it would make flying the thing in the sim more enjoyable.

 

Yeah I could try to use the older Mirage Factory Tomcat pit instead but I would rather use the new one, with just a little better visibility. Thats all.

 

Maybe one day I will try to mod it myself and see how it turns out. Unfortunately it will have to wait as I will be spending the next year in Afghanistan pounding sand. In the mean time I will just enjoy the sim as much as I can before I head out as there ain't no computers where we are going I hear.

[+EricJ 4,245]

I was able to deploy to 'ghan no problem with a laptop (though Vista... not good unless you have a JNN hookup) and most of the time I worked in the Company TOC (FSNCO). Then again FOB Blessing was not that bad off in the first place either. I had a Logitech Extreme 3D pro which if you pack your duffel right around it, can be taken with you. I still played SF1 back then and even managed to work on the Super Hornet before DoD changed the policy of no thumb drives. But yeah... start grabbing stuff just in case though...

 

And a recommendation, start flying the Hog or Strike Eagle (or any ISAF jet for that matter) in the Afghanistan terrain as you'll see what you may be seeing for a year... just sayin

Edited March 13, 2011 by EricJ

[+EricJ 4,245]

SF2 Downloads section. Though not sure if your province is going to be covered (if you're going on the eastern portion of the country, like where I was at) but if you're an FO or JFO it'll help your talk-ons since you know what the pilot will be seeiing to a degree.

[mosherec 2]

I was able to deploy to 'ghan no problem with a laptop (though Vista... not good unless you have a JNN hookup) and most of the time I worked in the Company TOC (FSNCO). Then again FOB Blessing was not that bad off in the first place either. I had a Logitech Extreme 3D pro which if you pack your duffel right around it, can be taken with you. I still played SF1 back then and even managed to work on the Super Hornet before DoD changed the policy of no thumb drives. But yeah... start grabbing stuff just in case though...

 

And a recommendation, start flying the Hog or Strike Eagle (or any ISAF jet for that matter) in the Afghanistan terrain as you'll see what you may be seeing for a year... just sayin

 

Thanks for the tips on the "Stan". I will see if I can do the same. But we are headed to an area where there are no FOBs or COPs yet. Soon as we can get power there maybe I will be able to get some flight sim time in.

 

Going to check out the Afghanistan terrain for the sim. Thanks.

Edited March 13, 2011 by mosherec

[+EricJ 4,245]

Ahh no problem. I got some PowerPoint slides I can send you if needed from my tour and the 173rd we replaced but gotcha

[Icarus999 70]

There is some truth to this and it is one of the very few legitimate complaints about M.F. Aircraft. Next time you fly this bird compare the canopy frame thickness tho the width of the multi function displays and you will begin to realize that this is a legitimate issue. That said we all need to remember that the cockpit read me stated that the model was incomplete and that many planned features were not yet implemented. We also need to remember how much we all pushed the MF design team to release the new F-14 because we could not wait to get our hands on it. Personally I do feel some eye strain when flying this bird in dark/ overcast conditions and think that the pov feels a little cramped in... to far forward. If we were able to zoom out and back much further like we can in many other pits the framing issue would not seem so bad. We should be able to zoom back to a point that it is possible to see all of the instrument panel thru peripheral vision with the HUD in the same view.

 

My solution is to always fly with Trackir and to have the zoom out key mapped to my stick, within easy thumb reach. I also Fly this bird the way it was intended, as a true interceptor. Meaning that when I fly it I direct my AI team mates as an integrated BVR killing machine wiping out the majority of the enemy flight at distance , then closing in to mop up any stragglers who escaped the salvos of BVR shots. I also like use this as an AI bird in my scripted missions, defending a multiple carrier groups from waves of bombers/ Attack aircraft along side F-4S and F-18A Flights. Makes for some great eye Candy.

Edited March 15, 2011 by Icarus999

[+Dave 2,322]

To be honest, the view has never bothered me. Thought never entered my mind. I flew it again last night and I was so busy in the dogfight I felt I was kind of looking through it anyway. I set up my stick to have 3 zoom levels at the touch of the hat switch. So that helps.

[+daddyairplanes 10,243]

unless you have a JNN hookup)

 

 

yep i did like bein with a signal company my year there

 

as for gettin onto CA and d/l'ing you should be able to get on once in a while whatever yer circumstance and checkout whats goin on. (unless your really in BFE, like the border) downloads on the otherhand are another matter. i had my own in room internet in Kandahar (good ole candyland) for Skype'ing with the wife and could sometimes d/l on that. however it took a long time (26 hours for all parts of NF4+!). and our CO wasnt much for morale use of the network other than email Google and planned videoconferences back home, so not so much d/l on NIPR. another option if you have your laptop and a good friend/family in the states is to get a thumbdrive sent with some d/l's to add to yer game. also assumin your on a budget (like most soldiers) get Gimp and try your hand at skinning/decalling. hey ya got nuthin but time to give it a go.

 

ok sorry just read ya post on location. still our teams that went to start ups like that said they went up pretty quick. and if you have a JNN team in the area and you got a useful jobset (supply, cooks, mechanics) make nice with em quick. they got yer internet (however slow!)

Edited March 15, 2011 by daddyairplanes

[Kyot54 2]

Granted, I'm coming to this topic way late, and years (literally) after the fact. But to add my two cents in, I admit I would love to see a more accurate D model cockpit, with the MFD to the side of the VDI and maybe even an actual HUG setup/glass instead of piggybacking off the original A model setup of using the windscreen glass. Although I am glad to see that the HUD display is pretty accurate. I just recently tweaked my Bravo(96) models to reflect the B Upgrade which had the HUD from the D model installed. I didn't make it exactly the same, as I would like at least some differentiation between my models, but I did at least drop the side scale bars in favor of actual text and add the heading indicator at the top. Also switched out the guncross, though I did keep the heatseeker lock from the A-ish model. Seems to be a nice mesh.