+Stary Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 I don't know if this was ever modded or discussed... slow and low CAS planes annihilating whole platoon of enemy tanks without a single shooting back. I'm not Steel Beasts PRO PE expert, but in the good old days of Tornado or Janes' ATF flying low in front of their barrels wasn't the smartest idea. so I simply set as example T-72's both detect systems and weasonsystems to AIR_AND_GROUND: [DetectSystem] TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND DataLink=FALSE OpticalSight=TRUE NightSight=TRUE VisualRange=4000.0 ViewportPosition=0.0,0.0,2.30 MaxVisibleDistance=7000.0 RadarCrossSection=10 [WeaponSystem] TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND GunRange=1800.0 PitchAngleRate=10 MaxPitch=14.0 MinPitch=-5.0 DefaultPitchAngle=0 YawLimited=FALSE YawAngleRate=15 DefaultYawAngle=0 ReloadGunAtAngle=FALSE GunRecoil=100 GunStabilization=TRUE GunRadarTracking=FALSE RangeFinder=6 BallisticComputer=2 YawModelNodeName=Turret_D PitchModelNodeName=Turret_D_Cannon with quick custom mission on Iraq/Iran map (which is excellent Wrench, TY! ) here be results: of 31 OPFOR T-72s several have interest in my plane, opening fire as depicted: at first pass (570 knots!) I was hit two times -first shot did no in-cockpit reported damage, second one tore off my starboard wing: here's log of this test mission: I suppose there are three dozen arguments weapon/armor experts will jump on me now, but in sake of "lite gameplay fun and challenge" why was it never utilised..? Or I wasn't using the right mods..? In fact it's my first "modern" install in Gen2 And I think adding secondary HMG would be way better or realistic, most tanks have only maingun modelled in their data files Quote
EricJ Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Only time I heard was an Israeli tank shot down a helo but unfortunately it was its own. Tank turrets are too slow to track targets in real life but... apparently SF2 tanks are.. And yes adding an HMG is more realistic as that's the reasoning for both US (.50 cal) and Russian (14.5mm KPV) Also if you're doing defensive CAS you should load more GBu-12s as JDAMs are great against non moving targets but apparently those ones arent... Edited February 28, 2011 by EricJ Quote
EricJ Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 And you don't need to be so low either.... http://562.50megs.com/562nd/Tutorials/GuidedWeapons.zip Quote
+Stary Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Only time I heard was an Israeli tank shot down a helo but unfortunately it was its own. Tank turrets are too slow to track targets in real life but... apparently SF2 tanks are.. And yes adding an HMG is more realistic as that's the reasoning for both US (.50 cal) and Russian (14.5mm KPV) Also if you're doing defensive CAS you should load more GBu-12s as JDAMs are great against non moving targets but apparently those ones arent... Same case with one gunship shooting down plane (Mi-24 vs Phantom IIRC), as I wrote I'm not thinking about full realism mod here, rather an addition to give ground vs air a little more action. And as this was in fact quick one using already existing systems of the test tank (T-72A) and new independent system in data file for hmgs is needed, best independent from main gun -there are models of secondary ap guns modelled on most of tanks already I know, it was just a test, that's why I went down. JDAM accidental drop caused by suprise Quote
Wrench Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Thanks for the compliment on I/I!!! The rivers were a nightmare!!! re: guns I did that a long time ago (adding the A-A MG). In fact, one of my very first mods was that one. The only thing about adding "_and_ground" to the main gun, is the tanks will stop engaging their primary (ground) targets, and start shooting at YOU!!! Found that out when we were building DS -an experiment I tried. AFter getting shot down a lot, I discarded the idea as 'baaaaaad' (even lost an A-10 to T-72s!!!) wrench kevin stein Quote
+Stary Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 Yeah, seems the threat priority have AIR objects. And that's a thing we can't adjust, I think it's hard-coded. Best would be mixed types of units per ground unit, but I think several patches ago AAA or mobile SAM units have been added even to randomly generated missions..? Quote
+daddyairplanes Posted February 28, 2011 Posted February 28, 2011 Tank turrets are too slow to track targets in real life but... apparently SF2 tanks are.. And yes seems the same strategy as Thuds over NVietnam, if your stupid enough to fly infront of the gun........ Quote
+Stary Posted February 28, 2011 Author Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) IF we could have two separate Weapon detectionsystems, ore AIR and one ground..? IDK if it's possible Edited February 28, 2011 by Stary Quote
+Dave Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Sorry for the douche baggery fellas. Our shenanigans are cheeky and fun, his shenanigans are cruel and tragic. Quote
+CrazyhorseB34 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 As a former tanker and Abrams Master Gunner I will attest to the fact that the U.S. Army does train to engage helicopters with the main gun. We shoot them in the simulator all the time. I also killed four vismod Hind-D's (UH-1's) in the Central Corridor at NTC in 1995 with MILES gear. I also got an F-16 kill at NTC with maingun during same rotation. It happens and it is doctrine. This is a good thing. Quote
FrankD Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Stary, it had been suggested some times in the forum and some posters feared that the ground units would then focus on aerials and forget their own battle. As as side note, engagement of the aerials is also "common" for ICV's gunners and given their high ROF and turret traverse, they are efficient at it, certainly at downing helos and slow movers. Mixed ground units would be awesome, in the waiting someone, I think that it's Wrench (who else?), suggested to add point AD located at the end points defined in the movement.ini file. Quote
+Stary Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 yeah I know about the AD trick, but it's only for campaigns, mixed groups would be best. @Crazyhorse: thank you, very interesting, I would never think it's considered doctrine and trained in simulated environment Quote
Murphy'S Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 yeah I know about the AD trick, but it's only for campaigns, mixed groups would be best. @Crazyhorse: thank you, very interesting, I would never think it's considered doctrine and trained in simulated environment In campings, on cas missions, the ground offensives aren't covered by mobile sams/shilkas? It's not the case anymore? Quote
+Stary Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 they are -or were last time I flew in campaign mode (SF2I) Quote
Phillip58 Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 Hmm, maybe if you made it GROUND _ and _ AIR, it might have the ground targets as the number one threat? Phillip Quote
+Stary Posted March 1, 2011 Author Posted March 1, 2011 I was thinking the same Phillip, but there seems to be no such system class in the core files Quote
Lexx_Luthor Posted March 1, 2011 Posted March 1, 2011 It happens. Romanian Hs-129 here... From a cornfield, a camouflaged T-34 fired one shot, which cut off a part of the wing of the aircraft of Oblt. Dieter Orth, the German liason officer. The plane hit the ground and exploded instantly. ~ http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/g8as.htm Those cornfields again. Also, czech out daily sortie rates.... On 29 October the 8th Assault Group moved to....They managed to fly about 15-16 missions per day each! No other Romanian group made as many sorties in one day, as the 8th Assault Group did then. There was always a patrul (Romanian for Schwarm) in the air covering the infantrymen. And that was October at decent northern latitude. This is something TheSims developers should get a handle on in simulating Refuel and ReArm. Quote
Stick Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 As a former tanker and Abrams Master Gunner I will attest to the fact that the U.S. Army does train to engage helicopters with the main gun. We shoot them in the simulator all the time. I also killed four vismod Hind-D's (UH-1's) in the Central Corridor at NTC in 1995 with MILES gear. I also got an F-16 kill at NTC with maingun during same rotation. It happens and it is doctrine. This is a good thing. JESUS!!! Quote
ndicki Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 JESUS!!! Shooting back at helicopters is standard doctrine in Royal Armoured Corps as well - with helicopters, the missile was (even if it isn't now) likely to be wire-guided, so the idea was that if you missed the chopper - most probable result, let's be honest - you might give the missile-guider enough of a surprise that he'd lose concentration. Quote
Heretic Posted March 2, 2011 Posted March 2, 2011 Shooting back at helicopters is standard doctrine in Royal Armoured Corps as well... Same in the Heer. I've witnessed a helo kill in the crew simulator, so at least in theory it's possible. In the field...well, only if you have the moment of surprise or an unwary helo driver. Quote
KJakker Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Just thought I would drop a link relevant to this topic. The images in the article are all thumbnail images. The M830A1 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) round. Quote
+CrazyhorseB34 Posted March 3, 2011 Posted March 3, 2011 Nothing any helicopter has travels at 1650 meters a second like my stuff does. Tanks like the M-1A1, M-1A2, Leo 2, CR 2, Merkava, Should have this mod applied. T-xxx not so much. For one their Fire Control System sux. They are not capable of effectively engaging and consistantly hitting helicopters or unwary low flying jets. The HMG option on the other hand does seem the way to go for all tanks. Quote
+Stary Posted March 3, 2011 Author Posted March 3, 2011 The HMG option on the other hand does seem the way to go for all tanks. and time periods Quote
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