Finally, ground battles become slightly more challenging

[+Stary]

I don't know if this was ever modded or discussed... slow and low CAS planes annihilating whole platoon of enemy tanks without a single shooting back. I'm not Steel Beasts PRO PE expert, but in the good old days of Tornado or Janes' ATF flying low in front of their barrels wasn't the smartest idea.

 

so I simply set as example T-72's both detect systems and weasonsystems to AIR_AND_GROUND:

 

[DetectSystem]

TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND

DataLink=FALSE

OpticalSight=TRUE

NightSight=TRUE

VisualRange=4000.0

ViewportPosition=0.0,0.0,2.30

MaxVisibleDistance=7000.0

RadarCrossSection=10

 

[WeaponSystem]

TargetType=AIR_AND_GROUND

GunRange=1800.0

PitchAngleRate=10

MaxPitch=14.0

MinPitch=-5.0

DefaultPitchAngle=0

YawLimited=FALSE

YawAngleRate=15

DefaultYawAngle=0

ReloadGunAtAngle=FALSE

GunRecoil=100

GunStabilization=TRUE

GunRadarTracking=FALSE

RangeFinder=6

BallisticComputer=2

YawModelNodeName=Turret_D

PitchModelNodeName=Turret_D_Cannon

 

with quick custom mission on Iraq/Iran map (which is excellent Wrench, TY! ) here be results:

 

of 31 OPFOR T-72s several have interest in my plane, opening fire as depicted:

 

 

 

at first pass (570 knots!) I was hit two times -first shot did no in-cockpit reported damage, second one tore off my starboard wing:

 

 

 

here's log of this test mission:

 

 

 

I suppose there are three dozen arguments weapon/armor experts will jump on me now, but in sake of "lite gameplay fun and challenge" why was it never utilised..? Or I wasn't using the right mods..? In fact it's my first "modern" install in Gen2

 

And I think adding secondary HMG would be way better or realistic, most tanks have only maingun modelled in their data files

[+EricJ]

Only time I heard was an Israeli tank shot down a helo but unfortunately it was its own. Tank turrets are too slow to track targets in real life but... apparently SF2 tanks are.. And yes adding an HMG is more realistic as that's the reasoning for both US (.50 cal) and Russian (14.5mm KPV)

 

Also if you're doing defensive CAS you should load more GBu-12s as JDAMs are great against non moving targets but apparently those ones arent...

Edited February 28, 2011 by EricJ

[+EricJ]

And you don't need to be so low either....

 

http://562.50megs.com/562nd/Tutorials/GuidedWeapons.zip

[+Stary]

Only time I heard was an Israeli tank shot down a helo but unfortunately it was its own. Tank turrets are too slow to track targets in real life but... apparently SF2 tanks are.. And yes adding an HMG is more realistic as that's the reasoning for both US (.50 cal) and Russian (14.5mm KPV)

 

Also if you're doing defensive CAS you should load more GBu-12s as JDAMs are great against non moving targets but apparently those ones arent...

 

Same case with one gunship shooting down plane (Mi-24 vs Phantom IIRC), as I wrote I'm not thinking about full realism mod here, rather an addition to give ground vs air a little more action.

 

And as this was in fact quick one using already existing systems of the test tank (T-72A) and new independent system in data file for hmgs is needed, best independent from main gun -there are models of secondary ap guns modelled on most of tanks already

 

I know, it was just a test, that's why I went down. JDAM accidental drop caused by suprise

[+EricJ]

Ahh okay

[+Wrench]

Thanks for the compliment on I/I!!! The rivers were a nightmare!!!

 

re: guns

I did that a long time ago (adding the A-A MG). In fact, one of my very first mods was that one.

 

The only thing about adding "_and_ground" to the main gun, is the tanks will stop engaging their primary (ground) targets, and start shooting at YOU!!! Found that out when we were building DS -an experiment I tried. AFter getting shot down a lot, I discarded the idea as 'baaaaaad' (even lost an A-10 to T-72s!!!)

 

wrench

kevin stein

[+Stary]

Yeah, seems the threat priority have AIR objects. And that's a thing we can't adjust, I think it's hard-coded. Best would be mixed types of units per ground unit, but I think several patches ago AAA or mobile SAM units have been added even to randomly generated missions..?

[+daddyairplanes]

Tank turrets are too slow to track targets in real life but... apparently SF2 tanks are.. And yes

 

seems the same strategy as Thuds over NVietnam, if your stupid enough to fly infront of the gun........

[+Stary]

IF we could have two separate Weapon detectionsystems, ore AIR and one ground..? IDK if it's possible

Edited February 28, 2011 by Stary

[+Dave]

Sorry for the douche baggery fellas.

 

Our shenanigans are cheeky and fun, his shenanigans are cruel and tragic.

[+CrazyhorseB34]

As a former tanker and Abrams Master Gunner I will attest to the fact that the U.S. Army does train to engage helicopters with the main gun. We shoot them in the simulator all the time. I also killed four vismod Hind-D's (UH-1's) in the Central Corridor at NTC in 1995 with MILES gear. I also got an F-16 kill at NTC with maingun during same rotation. It happens and it is doctrine. This is a good thing.

[FrankD]

Stary,

 

it had been suggested some times in the forum and some posters feared that the ground units would then focus on aerials and forget their own battle.

 

As as side note, engagement of the aerials is also "common" for ICV's gunners and given their high ROF and turret traverse, they are efficient at it, certainly at downing helos and slow movers.

 

Mixed ground units would be awesome, in the waiting someone, I think that it's Wrench (who else?), suggested to add point AD located at the end points defined in the movement.ini file.

[+Stary]

yeah I know about the AD trick, but it's only for campaigns, mixed groups would be best.

 

@Crazyhorse:

thank you, very interesting, I would never think it's considered doctrine and trained in simulated environment

[Murphy'S]

yeah I know about the AD trick, but it's only for campaigns, mixed groups would be best.

 

@Crazyhorse:

thank you, very interesting, I would never think it's considered doctrine and trained in simulated environment

 

In campings, on cas missions, the ground offensives aren't covered by mobile sams/shilkas?

 

It's not the case anymore?

[+Stary]

they are -or were last time I flew in campaign mode (SF2I)

[Phillip58]

Hmm, maybe if you made it GROUND _ and _ AIR, it might have the ground targets as the number one threat?

 

 

Phillip

[+Stary]

I was thinking the same Phillip, but there seems to be no such system class in the core files

[Lexx_Luthor]

It happens. Romanian Hs-129 here...

 

From a cornfield, a camouflaged T-34 fired one shot, which cut off a part of the wing of the aircraft of Oblt. Dieter Orth, the German liason officer. The plane hit the ground and exploded instantly.

 

~ http://www.worldwar2.ro/arr/g8as.htm

Those cornfields again. Also, czech out daily sortie rates....

 

 

On 29 October the 8th Assault Group moved to....They managed to fly about 15-16 missions per day each! No other Romanian group made as many sorties in one day, as the 8th Assault Group did then. There was always a patrul (Romanian for Schwarm) in the air covering the infantrymen.

 

And that was October at decent northern latitude. This is something TheSims developers should get a handle on in simulating Refuel and ReArm.

[Stick]

As a former tanker and Abrams Master Gunner I will attest to the fact that the U.S. Army does train to engage helicopters with the main gun. We shoot them in the simulator all the time. I also killed four vismod Hind-D's (UH-1's) in the Central Corridor at NTC in 1995 with MILES gear. I also got an F-16 kill at NTC with maingun during same rotation. It happens and it is doctrine. This is a good thing.

 

JESUS!!!

[ndicki]

JESUS!!!

Shooting back at helicopters is standard doctrine in Royal Armoured Corps as well - with helicopters, the missile was (even if it isn't now) likely to be wire-guided, so the idea was that if you missed the chopper - most probable result, let's be honest - you might give the missile-guider enough of a surprise that he'd lose concentration.

[Heretic]

Shooting back at helicopters is standard doctrine in Royal Armoured Corps as well...

 

Same in the Heer.

 

I've witnessed a helo kill in the crew simulator, so at least in theory it's possible. In the field...well, only if you have the moment of surprise or an unwary helo driver.

[KJakker]

Just thought I would drop a link relevant to this topic. The images in the article are all thumbnail images.

 

The M830A1 High Explosive Anti-Tank-Multi Purpose - Tracer (HEAT-MP-T) round.

[+CrazyhorseB34]

Nothing any helicopter has travels at 1650 meters a second like my stuff does. Tanks like the M-1A1, M-1A2, Leo 2, CR 2, Merkava, Should have this mod applied. T-xxx not so much. For one their Fire Control System sux. They are not capable of effectively engaging and consistantly hitting helicopters or unwary low flying jets. The HMG option on the other hand does seem the way to go for all tanks.

[+Stary]

The HMG option on the other hand does seem the way to go for all tanks.

 

and time periods