Phase 4 - the DH4 Petition

[33LIMA 972]

We, the undersigned/under-posted, urgently but respectfully request and beseech the OFF P4 Development Team to include the Airco DH4 in OFF Phase 4.

 

Our grounds for the same are:[

 

- the DH4's relatively long active service life, from Bloody April to Armistice (never quite replaced by the awful DH9 or the respectable DH9A);

- the wide extent of its service, with c.11 different RFC/RNAS squadrons, and later, with a Liberty engine, with the US Army air service (and Naval Northern Bombing Group) in the last few months of the war;

- the wide range of duties undertaken, especially with the RNAS;

- its outstanding performance;

- the desirability of having a later-war Allied day bomber in the OFF planeset, including one which took part in the Independent Force's 'strategic' bombing campaign (much more useful than an HP 0/400);

- the many opportunities for interesting missions for daylight bombing raids, both Mosquito-style lower-level operations and B17-type, longer-penetration, larger formation attacks;

- it's a jolly good-looking kite!

 

[Morris 2]

signed.

 

Maurice W. Robertson

[Olham 164]

Seeing all your well pronounced reasons, LIMA, and (halfways) knowing the OBD team for some time now,

I am sure that this two-seater is on their list. Somewhere. The question is, where it ranks in "urgency".

P4... P5... who knows?

 

I sign it anyway.

Edited June 27, 2011 by Olham

[+Polovski 460]

Ah one of the we must have <insert fav plane> requests Widowmaker only took 5 years of constant badgering to get his Snipe into P4 lol.

Seriously we'd love to have it and many more, just the 25+ modellers who have come offered assistance then vanished hasn't helped the cause much!

But agreed it's a good workhorse and we need it and it's on the long list as many others are ...just as usual the problem is time

[DukeIronHand 8]

Its funny this thread popped up.

 

I was just thinking the other day about how much I read about the DH4 and being surprised OFF doesn't have one.

 

As previously stated its service life was very long and it is always talked about in any history of the conflict - from both sides - quite a bit. The numbers must have been huge

 

This is not a "its my favorite plane" vote, because its not - history demands this one!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Good choice chaps..haha Pol..indeed!.....let's hope for your sakes, I don't get a bee in my Bonnet for the DH4! (I doubt your nerves..or mine..could stand it!)

[Hasse Wind 46]

Before building any new British two-seaters, I'd like to ask that some of the most important French ones take precedence. The French have none of their own two-seaters in P3, which is not good, considering they had the biggest air force among the Entente powers.

 

But of course I'll sign this petition.

[carrick58 23]

I agree with Hasse Wind

 

 

Edited June 27, 2011 by carrick58

[Slartibartfast 153]

Just for fun I will sign as I see it as my Strutters bigger meaner brother...

 

And Widow I may take up the mantle to allow you to settle your nerves old chap...

Edited June 27, 2011 by Slartibartfast

[Slartibartfast 153]

Can we have the 2 seater please pretty please with a cherry on top ???

 

 

Thank you...

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Hmmmm...while the Airco DH4 would be very nice to have in the OFF skies, I hesitate to sign anything I haven't been allowed to read fully. The last time I did that I ended up in the military for six years.

 

"No, no, trust me kid, that's just the standard boiler plate, don't waste your time reading through all that. You just need to sign here, and initial here, and here, and I'll give you this nifty US Air Force key chain, coffee mug, AND bumper sticker."

 

.

[Slartibartfast 153]

.

 

Hmmmm...while the Airco DH4 would be very nice to have in the OFF skies, I hesitate to sign anything I haven't been allowed to read fully. The last time I did that I ended up in the military for six years.

 

"No, no, trust me kid, that's just the standard boiler plate, don't waste your time reading through all that. You just need to sign here, and initial here, and here, and I'll give you this nifty US Air Force key chain, coffee mug, AND bumper sticker."

 

.

 

Aaaahhh quit your moaning and say yes you know you want to...

[Olham 164]

I guess, Hasse Wind is right - the French need a two-seater more urgently.

I have no idea which one would be the most urgent French two-seats, so I picked

this one, which I like just for it's characteristic special looks: the Caudron G IV.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caudron_G.4

 

.

[Lewie 7]

Ah one of the we must have <insert fav plane> requests Widowmaker only took 5 years of constant badgering to get his Snipe into P4 lol.

Seriously we'd love to have it and many more, just the 25+ modellers who have come offered assistance then vanished hasn't helped the cause much!

But agreed it's a good workhorse and we need it and it's on the long list as many others are ...just as usual the problem is time

 

To be fair to the modelers, the required learning curve to build new content using the only 3D program that can export to .m3d, is part of the problem. It's not like Bullethead and those before and after him didn't give this a good attempt. Try to say that about his Morane Saulnier AI work. I'm not saying that gmax is bad, but it's complexity and lack of laymen's level of instruction, and an easily registered to forum website that has people that use Gmax regularly, I could cite other reasons...

 

This could be as easy as one of you folks asking ArgonV about FS-WWI's DH4. It would be a model to start from and the original builder put in some stellar effort to the 3D work in that model. It's every bit as good as the OFF P3 models.

[Lewie 7]

I guess, Hasse Wind is right - the French need a two-seater more urgently.

I have no idea which one would be the most urgent French two-seats, so I picked

this one, which I like just for it's characteristic special looks: the Caudron G IV.

 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Caudron_G.4

 

.

 

Well I've had this model for a while, it's not getting any younger..

[33LIMA 972]

Before building any new British two-seaters, I'd like to ask that some of the most important French ones take precedence. The French have none of their own two-seaters in P3, which is not good, considering they had the biggest air force among the Entente powers.

 

But of course I'll sign this petition.

 

 

As you'll know, we DO already have an Aviation Militaire 2-seater in OFF, one that was widely used in 1916-18, namely, the Sop. 1A2, 1B2, and 1B1 - the One-and-a-half Strutter.

 

Not French-designed of course but French-built in large numbers; the AM used more of them than the RFC/RNAS I believe, and had them operational on the Western Front for longer too, from September 1916 to about April 1918, according to my sources. Belgian air force used them too. So it was a rather good choice for the OFF planeset - three-plus birds with one stone, or flies with one swipe as I believe they say in Germany.

 

Anyway I'd certainly sign a petition for a Voisin or a Breguet 14. or Lewie's promising Caudron for that matter. The Voisin 8 would probably be the best choice, n'est-ce pas, because of her long service life? Certainement, that would be a better gap-filler than more RFC or German types (tho I, for one, would not want for a moment to deter the OFF team from simply filling the Flanders skies with Martinsyde Elephants, Big Acks, Fokker 1916 D-types, Pfalz DXIIs, LVG CVIs, Siemens-Schukerts or Gothas

 

It's not a case of favourite planes, it's a case of representative ones. There are already only a few significant gaps in the OFF planeset and many of these gaps are set to shrink appreciably with P4. But I like cake - and where's the harm in asking for more icing?

 

Besides which, think of the exciting mission types the DH4 opens up. It was the Mosquito of its day. Plus it participated in large-scale daylight raids. Think of 633 Squadron AND Memphis Belle, flown as attacker or defender - that's what a DH4 would bring to OFF, not just 'another 2-seater'.

Edited June 27, 2011 by 33LIMA

[Rugbyfan1972 1]

.

 

Hmmmm...while the Airco DH4 would be very nice to have in the OFF skies, I hesitate to sign anything I haven't been allowed to read fully. The last time I did that I ended up in the military for six years.

 

.

 

RAFL,

 

I take it you were in the military before you got married then (sorry too good an opportunity to miss). LOL

 

And apologies to all the ladies out there.

[Lewie 7]

As you'll know, we DO already have an Aviation Militaire 2-seater in OFF, one that was widely used in 1916-18, namely, the Sop. 1A2, 1B2, and 1B1 - the One-and-a-half Strutter.

 

Not French-designed of course but French-built in large numbers; the AM used more of them than the RFC/RNAS I believe, and had them operational on the Western Front for longer too, from September 1916 to about April 1918, according to my sources. Belgian air force used them too. So it was a rather good choice for the OFF planeset - three-plus birds with one stone, or flies with one swipe as I believe they say in Germany.

 

Anyway I'd certainly sign a petition for a Voisin or a Breguet 14. or Lewie's promising Caudron for that matter. The Voisin 8 would probably be the best choice, n'est-ce pas, because of her long service life? Certainement, that would be a better gap-filler than more RFC or German types (tho I, for one, would not want for a moment to deter the OFF team from simply filling the Flanders skies with Martinsyde Elephants, Big Acks, Fokker 1916 D-types, Pfalz DXIIs, LVG CVIs, Siemens-Schukerts or Gothas

 

It's not a case of favourite planes, it's a case of representative ones. There are already only a few significant gaps in the OFF planeset and many of these gaps are set to shrink appreciably with P4. But I like cake - and where's the harm in asking for more icing?

 

 

 

I forget who made it, Either Bullethead or Stumpjumper, but there is a Breguet 14 for OFF in the 3rd party aircraft downloads in Downloads here in Cambat Ace.

 

It needs a lot of work, there's also a Gotha GIV and a Hanriot HD1. I'd like to see the Dorand AR1 and AR2 in the game. They were made in significant numbers and had been engined with the new 190 HP V8 Renault which gave them a fair speed advantage to the Caudron GIV' and Farman F40's they replaced.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

Slartibartfast wrote:

Aaaahhh quit your moaning and say yes you know you want to...

Oh alright then.

 

 

Rugbyfan1972 wrote:

RAFL, I take it you were in the military before you got married then (sorry too good an opportunity to miss). LOL

Why yes, yes I was.

 

 

 

Lewie, that Caudron of yours is very nice Sir. I'd love to see that one in the OFF skies And it was Stumpjumper who did the Breguet 14, along with numerous other aeroplanes that are not in P3 officially but are in the DL section.

 

.

[Hasse Wind 46]

I think that the best guess is better than nothing. If nobody knows anymore how some rare WW1 crate behaved in real life, then the devs can do what they feel is right and nobody can complain about it.

 

But for all the important ones, there certainly exists at least some data that describes their characteristics. I feel there's really no need to add some extremely rare machine that saw very little use, or none at all, during the war until all the important ones are in the sim. And reaching that goal is definitely going to take some time.

[Burning Beard 14]

Wow Lou, the Air Force had bumper stickers, the Army never gave me one (not even an Air Force one). But then I just analysed the dits, I never chased 'em.

 

Beard

 

 

 

[+Polovski 460]

Lewie that's 25 people (more actually) who had great serious intentions, long discussions, actively learning or making models in Gmax - progressing etc. All this was very time sapping.

 

Is learning to make models for CFS3 format a big commitment time wise? Yes, absolutely always say that. Totally agree on the learning curve - again I always stress that VERY clearly and up front when discussing with potential modellers. I know I started with nothing and learned the hard steep way too.

 

You can also use other programs as long as you can convert. You only need GMax to export. Gmax is free, plenty of info out there. It's basically 3DStudio 4 so many basic features work the same way even as the current versions. Also you can use 3D Studio if you have it or any program that can export to .3ds. Simply import at the end and finish off in Gmax to export.

 

I'm not having a go at Bullethead? What? He isn't making models for us. I admire his determination to learn and his Morane AI I am sure is great - not useful for WW1 and has not been offered or shown to us though? It's a fact people start then give up - just takes too much time yes.

 

Maybe Argon does have particular models that could be used, I have not seen every model in WW1:SDOE. The few I have seen a while back were low poly in the VC but if you say some are great and if you believe modellers would like to donate them for our use? We'd have to contact each and every modeller who has them around the net to ask permission to modify / use the models to OFF and CFS3 requirements and also they would require re-mapping,relinking, renanimating, often new Virtual cockpits needed etc so most models made for other sims are fairly useless to us time wise. BTW the external LOD100 is usually the part offered but is the least of our worries.