Why You Should Check Out Flaming Cliffs 2 (and the entire DCS series for that matter)

[+Brain32 265]

Call me stupid but I don't understand one thing about all this add-ons...

Does ED have to approve all add-ons for them to work or one can add whatever he makes and it will work instantly like in SF2 for example...

[+SkateZilla 49]

Any idea which of those other than ED's will get the "DCS" branding? I know MiG-21 is supposed to and F-22 is NOT, but beyond that I'm not certain.

 

I know the project devs for the projects listed below said that they are gonna be DCS Fidelity on one message board or another :

MIG-21Bis

F-15E

AV-8B

F-18E

BaE Hawk.

 

 

 

Eagle Dynamics is gonna hold them to a minimum standard which is above FCII Fidelity, that much I know, so whether that's Near DCS Fidelity or Simply FCII + Clickable Pits Fidelity, I cant say.

 

I wouldnt be surprised if some studios do a Med Fidelity and a High Fidelity Version and price them separately, since they already do that for FSX.

[+Soulfreak 6,524]

I know that there is a Hunter family & also a L-39 in work too

[+SkateZilla 49]

Call me stupid but I don't understand one thing about all this add-ons...

Does ED have to approve all add-ons for them to work or one can add whatever he makes and it will work instantly like in SF2 for example...

 

Both, however, all of the above addons are Licensed/Approved by eagle Dynamics, and will need to be purchased and installed.

 

However a knock against ED, is if your not a licensed/approved project, good luck getting help and access to dev tools besides the 3D Studio Exporters.

[Do335 382]

it's just populating the game with more and more planes.... all moot without some dynamic or interesting mission sets. i'd rather make some scale models.

actually reminds me of "world of tanks"

 

even SF campaign is half decent and has a good atmo for me

Edited August 28, 2012 by Do335

[FastCargo 412]

However a knock against ED, is if your not a licensed/approved project, good luck getting help and access to dev tools besides the 3D Studio Exporters.

 

This right here is why I'm going to wait until the modding community has built a significant presence around DCS.

 

As much grief as TK gets for not helping modders, you can see his boards filled with information from him about what parameters mean, etc. As well as downloads of the tools he uses for building some of the stuff himself.

 

Also, considering that right now everything for DCS is DLC (other than DCS World) or planned to be DLC in the near term, I'm not sure what all the bitching is about TW DLC. I have to laugh that one sim gets complaints about DLC but another which uses the exact same money making model is getting 'ZOMG!!! Awesome!'. And it's not like the DLC pricing isn't reasonable for what you get with either the TW or DCS offerings...you pay more, you get more.

 

FC

[+Brain32 265]

Sure but the thing that bothers people about TK's DLC system is lack of elasticity of the offer to put it in crude economic terms...

[FastCargo 412]

Sure but the thing that bothers people about TK's DLC system is lack of elasticity of the offer to put it in crude economic terms...

 

Not sure what you mean there. It seems prices are very elastic...again, the price varies as to what you get for it.

 

Let's again put this in crude economic terms, especially for those who think TK isn't making money off of DLCs. A company, big or small, will not continue to invest in actions knowingly unless A) it has very DEEP pockets to have short term loss for long term gain, B) the people running the company are idiots, C) the company they run is a hobby and they don't ever intend to really make money or D) it makes money!

 

It isn't A. I think we all know that.

It probably isn't B. TW has been around for almost a decade...look how many other flight sim companies have either gone out of business...or never got past vaporware (I'm looking at you Fighter Ops). TW is still here. Even Microsoft, a company with VERY deep pockets, has bailed out of the genre.

It probably isn't C...I'm not sure TK has a 'real' job outside of TW.

So it's probably D...DLCs make money! Go figure, right?

 

Look, whatever floats your boat and works for you is fine. But DCS isn't the second coming and TW isn't the devil. The truth is somewhere in the middle...you will get more out of DCS in the long run, but you will pay more to get it. And until there is enough of a knowledge base in the modding world in DCS that you don't have to feel beholden to the DCS gatekeepers to get assistance, the freeware world will simply not be as big as the TW freeware world is.

 

FC

[+Dave 2,322]

Fellas I was not promoting this to be a mines better than yours or anything like that. As FC said it isnt the 2nd coming. Being part of this community for as long as I have, I was just passing info along. I am not saying abandon TW sims either. My point was to say hey Im having fun here with this, check it out. i.e. in addition to TW sims, DCS is cool too.

[Spinners 15,986]

The future plans look promising. Any firm news on an F-4?

[+SkateZilla 49]

This right here is why I'm going to wait until the modding community has built a significant presence around DCS.

 

As much grief as TK gets for not helping modders, you can see his boards filled with information from him about what parameters mean, etc. As well as downloads of the tools he uses for building some of the stuff himself.

 

Also, considering that right now everything for DCS is DLC (other than DCS World) or planned to be DLC in the near term, I'm not sure what all the bitching is about TW DLC. I have to laugh that one sim gets complaints about DLC but another which uses the exact same money making model is getting 'ZOMG!!! Awesome!'. And it's not like the DLC pricing isn't reasonable for what you get with either the TW or DCS offerings...you pay more, you get more.

 

FC

 

At one point TW gave guidelines to Modders to help import their models into the engine, TK was very active in helping the modding community from the days of the Walmart Pre-release. Most modders became beta testers by time the game was released to retail (eb/gamestop etc). I still have both my WM Box and My EBGames Box for SFP1.

 

A few community Members broke down the flight model and explained every line/section/value and how it affects the aircraft's movements/performance.

[+Brain32 265]

Not sure what you mean there. It seems prices are very elastic...again, the price varies as to what you get for it.

 

Probably my s**tty explanation what I meant by that is that ED has a wider range of offering, you have more complex add-ons and less complex add-ons while TW is offering a singular, uniform level of complexity granted at a lower price but even for those who would pay/do want more complex stuff he simply does not offer it - that's what I meant by "elasticity of the offer" but I guess it looses the meaning when I make literal translation from my language...

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Dave::

I was just passing info along. I am not saying abandon TW sims either. My point was to say hey Im having fun here with this, check it out.

 

Yep. I like to think that I am alert for another new TheSim to butcher for my project, something that would work better than SF, but I never look at TheSims forums outside SF. Sometimes we don't pay attention and something has to slap us before we see it.

 

In DCS, how many planes can you have in the air at one time? With a 2500k and some SF game tweaks that I don't want to mention in case the "hammer locker" gets wind, I can get maybe 2,000+ planes flying across a map over The SF, in combat with weapons (there are certain hard limits). That doesn't include AA and SAM, however, which will reduce that number.

 

 

 

SkateZilla::

Aircraft from the 80ies, 90ies or worse...

 

lol

[+Dave 2,322]

There is no way to put 2500 at one time. They havent invented a system yet that can handle that.

[+Stary 2,427]

surely, it's not that Dave woke up and decided -"let's switch to DCS ACE from now on, everyone not passing shall be banned" or something (I hope so )

 

it in fact created fresh flow of air in rather stinky lately environment if you ask me

 

I will wait and see with positive approach, I think I have made myself plausible picture what DCS will evolve into -two, three theaters and several DCS A-10c level planes in a year or two, and some unofficial 3rd party either pay -or freeware addon planes, of lower quality and complexity, then another kind of release (World 2.0?) that will further integrate the air and ground warfare aspects for those with signed and blessed addons, perhaps without the possibility to fully utilise those unofficial mods

 

Then I think other company or doughter to TFC/ED will produce other independent title revolving around one of lesser known conflicts (I hope for Korea...) as a stand alone

 

on the other hand back to TW... remember my postprocess shader tweaks like old film or sepia or vignette? Kiss them goodbye cause seems this last patch locked those away (engine not uses them) -that's of course a downer and another brick in the wall pulled off...

Edited August 28, 2012 by Stary

[FastCargo 412]

Probably my s**tty explanation what I meant by that is that ED has a wider range of offering, you have more complex add-ons and less complex add-ons while TW is offering a singular, uniform level of complexity granted at a lower price but even for those who would pay/do want more complex stuff he simply does not offer it - that's what I meant by "elasticity of the offer" but I guess it looses the meaning when I make literal translation from my language...

 

In terms of complexity, this is true. I was meaning that the amount/variety of stuff offered at a DLC price point seems about right. But, yes, on a complexity level, all the offerings are the same.

 

FC

[+Stary 2,427]

but even for those who would pay/do want more complex stuff he simply does not offer it - that's what I meant by "elasticity of the offer"

 

yes I remember when DLC were launched there was pool and discussion about extra realism DLCs possibility, I'd love to have DLC that makes proper real life collimated HUDs and reticles for starters, or more detailed avionics (to an extend Tomcat's one is very nicely balanced to me) or maybe some "better weather" addon... but it's still over and over again the same*

 

*browsing through various cockpits.ini I found out that alot now have HUD type "instrument" defined and linked to combiner glass meshes -might it be an insight of things to come?

[FalconC45 162]

surely, it's not that Dave woke up and decided -"let's switch to DCS ACE from now on, everyone not passing shall be banned" or something (I hope so )

 

it in fact created fresh flow of air in rather stinky lately environment if you ask me

 

I will wait and see with positive approach, I think I have made myself plausible picture what DCS will evolve into -two, three theaters and several DCS A-10c level planes in a year or two, and some unofficial 3rd party either pay -or freeware addon planes, of lower quality and complexity, then another kind of release (World 2.0?) that will further integrate the air and ground warfare aspects for those with signed and blessed addons, perhaps without the possibility to fully utilise those unofficial mods

 

Then I think other company or doughter to TFC/ED will produce other independent title revolving around one of lesser known conflicts (I hope for Korea...) as a stand alone

 

on the other hand back to TW... remember my postprocess shader tweaks like old film or sepia or vignette? Kiss them goodbye cause seems this last patch locked those away (engine not uses them) -that's of course a downer and another brick in the wall pulled off...

 

What about your explosion efx, do they still work?

 

Falcon

[+Stary 2,427]

yes the do work

[FalconC45 162]

yes the do work

 

Thank goodness but how long? It seems like TK is killing the series.. but for what?

 

Falcon

[MigBuster 2,884]

Effects DLC pack 1

[MigBuster 2,884]

In terms of complexity, this is true. I was meaning that the amount/variety of stuff offered at a DLC price point seems about right. But, yes, on a complexity level, all the offerings are the same.

 

FC

 

 

The simpleness of the TW DLC Jet range is a big deal to his majority customer base - you can literally jump into the DLC straight away with a large choice of weapons - Ive flown an Omani Hunter over Israel, A-4A over Dhimar, MirageIII0 / A-4G / A-4K over Iceland for example.

 

I'm very much in the wait and see for DCS - the sim has a long way to go so I would hope that ED may work on a newer terrain engine, and dynamic campaigns for their next major release - and by that time (2022) there might be some (better) aircraft to fly.

 

A Vietnam or Israel pack fully supported by the releasing studio, with SAMs, Jets, AI behaviour, Terrain, Campaigns etc would be something I would probably buy.

[+Stary 2,427]

Effects DLC pack 1

 

if that fixes many issues related to effects rendering -why not

[+SkateZilla 49]

surely, it's not that Dave woke up and decided -"let's switch to DCS ACE from now on, everyone not passing shall be banned" or something (I hope so )

 

it in fact created fresh flow of air in rather stinky lately environment if you ask me

 

I will wait and see with positive approach, I think I have made myself plausible picture what DCS will evolve into -two, three theaters and several DCS A-10c level planes in a year or two, and some unofficial 3rd party either pay -or freeware addon planes, of lower quality and complexity, then another kind of release (World 2.0?) that will further integrate the air and ground warfare aspects for those with signed and blessed addons, perhaps without the possibility to fully utilise those unofficial mods

 

Then I think other company or doughter to TFC/ED will produce other independent title revolving around one of lesser known conflicts (I hope for Korea...) as a stand alone

 

on the other hand back to TW... remember my postprocess shader tweaks like old film or sepia or vignette? Kiss them goodbye cause seems this last patch locked those away (engine not uses them) -that's of course a downer and another brick in the wall pulled off...

 

Considering TW Locked down the DirectX Render Pipeline to keep certain people from dumping the pipeline to files...

Im surprised they worked as long as they did...

Add that to the list of LockDowns that Screws over modders..

Edited August 28, 2012 by SkateZilla

[+SkateZilla 49]

Effects DLC pack 1

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

yes I remember when DLC were launched there was pool and discussion about extra realism DLCs possibility, I'd love to have DLC that makes proper real life collimated HUDs and reticles for starters, or more detailed avionics (to an extend Tomcat's one is very nicely balanced to me) or maybe some "better weather" addon... but it's still over and over again the same*

 

*browsing through various cockpits.ini I found out that alot now have HUD type "instrument" defined and linked to combiner glass meshes -might it be an insight of things to come?

 

To Keep HUDs from being projected/drawn where they arent supposed to be.